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Thread: I miss my dev's :(:(

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    Plane Walker MissGreen's Avatar
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    Default I miss my dev's :(:(

    I just wrote out a major story but it got deleted so I just wanna say I miss Salvatrix who would dominate any issues we ever had, also Dead Simon for the greatness you brought to this game. I just miss you guys and I know life moves on and things but I honestly think that if given the chance these people would have made us very happy, well me anyways. Just makes me sad that I log into a game with no back up. I know for sure before this crap you all backed us up and we did the same for you.

    I do wanna say thank you for those that are still here and I'm sure you are also feeling what I am. Aka Fasti/Morgana. I just wish that these devs had another chance here. I realize that bad company tactics led to these things but also I wish that we had our dev's back. The game is not the same without them, period. It just feels empty when I log in everyday. It's like being married to the wrong person for years and get a divorce and that person hangs over on your heart whether you like it or not.

    Also I want to say that these dev's the best they could with the best direction they had. I feel that they were giving a poorly written screenplay and they had no choice really but to follow those lines of a bad film.Those dev's that spent years here since day one don't deserve or didn't deserve to be fired because of them the game rolled on all these years, just look at it that way instead of saying "oh this game was dying all along". No it wasn't, the dev's that worked hard for us no matter what they were told to do, did an awesome job. They didn't get a chance as far as I can see, not a good chance. Again that goes with the entire movie screen play thing where the actors have tons of talent but the story and producers just suck. I really wish them luck and wish this would have never happened, but also I want to say that people get tired of trying and If I were one of these dev's I would be tired too. I just wanted to say a few words, truly missing you guys. I will always respect you all and talk you up not down because you showed so much creativity even in your darkest hour. You guys truly define what gaming is about and should be proud of that.. Yes I'm having a bipolar moment, just kidding. I'm pretty consistent lol the only reason I get loud is because I don't have any answers and for me that is a big deal. but overall I try to stay positive and usually it works out for me. Anyway, I miss you guys already. I truly do. I know you guys had a ton of talent and I only hope that you are taken into a opportunity to let you all shine , like you did here with Rift. It truly shows and I hope this game lives on to prove that games are not just something we do in our spare time, they are a lifestyle, a truly unique one.

    For Salvatrix and everyone else. <3 Keep your heads up!

    Last edited by MissGreen; 11-04-2018 at 04:48 AM.
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    +1 for the PIL vid.

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    Rift Disciple Tarindil's Avatar
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    I will miss <Salvatrix>. Hoping <she> & all the others, find a great job on a new game....

    P.S....let us know where you land

    Thank you for that fix Salvatrix! I am sorry for that, I did not know! I am just glad you are around in some way. Thank you for all you have done for Rift.
    Last edited by Tarindil; 11-04-2018 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Fixed that for you! ;D

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    Why? Some (not all) are responsible for burning this game to the ground.

    I mean even Salvatrix prioritized mount organization and fluff over planar fragments (Salvatrix was the developer going to work on fragments next so excuses of it being another team's job isn't going to fly here).

    Even the more positive changes we started seeing towards the end were more because they were forced to when they realized they were screwed.

    Cleaning house was actually one of the few positives Gamigo did, for this game to survive a new team is needed that doesn't actively give the middle finger to the players.
    Last edited by DST; 11-04-2018 at 03:12 PM.

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    Rift Disciple Tarindil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DST View Post
    Why? Some (not all) are responsible for burning this game to the ground.

    I mean even Salvatrix prioritized mount organization and fluff over planar fragments (Salvatrix was the developer going to work on fragments next so excuses of it being another team's job isn't going to fly here).

    Even the more positive changes we started seeing towards the end were more because they were forced to when they realized they were screwed.

    Cleaning house was actually one of the few positives Gamigo did, for this game to survive a new team is needed that doesn't actively give the middle finger to the players.

    Why? I will tell you why. It is hard in games to find people with 'heart'. People working on a game that truly 'care' for the community. We were luck to have several that worked for Rift.

    So again....my hat is off to you Salvatrix. Thank you for all you did for Rift.

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    BMX
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    Mostly this was the result of leadership however, there were some devs that were part of the "Watercooler Club" that really did their best to drive the franchise into chapter 7.
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    Plane Walker Clowd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMX View Post
    Mostly this was the result of leadership however, there were some devs that were part of the "Watercooler Club" that really did their best to drive the franchise into chapter 7.
    Can we give these accusations a break already? We don't have many details at all regarding how each dev could prioritize their time during normal work hours. Yes, some of them supported leadership decisions, but it's doubtful they agreed 100% of the time.

    However, given all of my discussions with individual devs, and the anonymous information I have been given, and the anonymous sources I've talked to since the layoffs, I feel confident in saying that individual devs who create content/features are not to blame for any part of this situation. Even those who have been around for a long time and might be part of the "Watercooler Club" you claim exists.

    I agree with you on thing, I, too, am lead to believe that something broke along the management and marketing chain, something just went... wrong. I don't know what, and I doubt I'll learn what.

    We can speculate about what happened behind the scenes until we're blue in the face, we can speculate about which devs fed into it or didn't, but it will be that - speculation regarding an individual.
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    I don't see how we can just blame management.
    Let us just look at Eternal Weapons.
    It needed multiple times to adjust it and people were still asking for it to be phased out because of the constant readjustments and bugs/"features".

    It was quite discriminatory in the fact that raid buffs were not normalized and individualized and classes had far better buffs than others. Take for instance the state of healing and end in the game. These buffs were never as important in anyway in the expansion. It was mostly bring the class for better healing and tanking rather than bring the eternal buffs. Content was 99% doable without them in most cases. However, having the damage increasing buffs from eternals were much more essential and wanted especially before nerfs and buffs to certain classes. In terms of balancing classes around an item it also effected scaling through content. A fresh 70 can do much more damage than other fresh 70s from different classes and in order for slightly better parity you need near max gear scores. Considering balancing was ongoing process why add another problem?

    Let us consider the difficulty in obtaining the upgrades as well. Some quest like the particle quest for those who suffered from issues were just not doable. Multiple complaints and only months of "looking into it" excuse gave people a sense of false hope.

    Also, the way it was developed ended up being a content locking feature with needing weekly lock outs to complete it and how this also was class restricting at the same time when you combine it with other paralyzing features implemented in this expansion. This in fact contributed to less replayability for many players. Think about it this way.. no new content combined with harsh replayability restrictions. Logically you should admit this was a combination of failure.

    Let us look at dependency. Eventually some classes became dependent on how eternals functioned so some souls can actually work. How this over dependence translated to other parts of the game such as PvP where you were disallowed to use the buff yet your class of choice could have ended up being more dependent on it.When certain class functionality depends on the eternal to have good playability in game niche where it is disallowed causes a massive imbalance. This impacted some classes in PvP and contributed to PvP eventually failing for a selective playerbase. Could they have added more gear for PvP(preferably instead and turn the knob again? Possibly? Would it have been better time spent doing this than adding concats? Maybe.. At least something some players can progress towards directly and not based on chance.

    Just this one item I can say was to an extent game breaking. I can go on about planar fragments, concat gear and balancing around those who have lucked out vs. those who did not etc. Even if it was not intended many implementations did feel like sabotage for many players in a multitude of choices that the developers picked.

    Remember, management is nowhere near aware of the intricacies a developer chooses to make. In most cases management is given a very broad direction of the project and it is solely the developers choice on how they go about implementing it. Remember no tank gear yet they created a bis for tanking and ultimately is the end gear to progress since there is no content to replace it.

    Also if you eliminate 20 player content the possibilities of group make up is now basically halved from 20 to 10 then common sense would have been to make groups less limited not more limited to encourage more diverse combinations. And why did they stop with individual loot rewards which took the blame out of other players hands? Who is to blame for these choices ? The manager, or the developer? It was a collective problem. If you look at other games under the same umbrella you can find some similar problems about PTW so yes it was also a management issue as well.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 11-05-2018 at 04:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    I don't see how we can just blame management.
    Let us just look at Eternal Weapons.
    It needed multiple times to adjust it and people were still asking for it to be phased out because of the constant readjustments and bugs/"features".

    It was quite discriminatory in the fact that raid buffs were not normalized and individualized and classes had far better buffs than others. Take for instance the state of healing and end in the game. These buffs were never as important in anyway in the expansion. It was mostly bring the class for better healing and tanking rather than bring the eternal buffs. Content was 99% doable without them in most cases. However, having the damage increasing buffs from eternals were much more essential especially before nerfs and buffs to certain classes. In terms of balancing classes around an item it also effected scaling through content. A fresh 70 can do much more damage than other fresh 70s and in order for slightly better parity you need near max gear scores. Considering balancing was ongoing process why add another problem?

    Let us consider the difficulty in obtaining the upgrades as well. Some quest like the particle quest for those who suffered from issues were just not doable. Multiple complaints and only months of "looking into it" excuse gave people a sense of false hope. Also, the way it was developed ended up being a content locking feature with needing weekly lock outs to complete it and how this also was class restricting at the same time when you combine it with other paralyzing features. This in fact contributed to less replayability for many players. Think about it this way.. no new content combined with replayability restrictions. Logically you should admit this is a combination of failure.

    Let us look at dependency. Eventually some classes became dependent on how it functioned so some souls can actually work and how the over dependence on it translated to other parts of the game such as PvP where you were disallowed to use the buff yet your class of choice could have ended up being more dependent on it functionality to have good playability in that game niche. This impacted some classes in PvP and contributed to PvP eventually failing. Could they have added more gear for PvP instead and turn the knob again? Possibly? Would it have been better spent doing this than adding concats? Maybe.. At least something some players can progress towards directly and not based on chance.

    Just one item I can say was to an extent game breaking. I can go on about planar fragments, concat gear and balancing around those who have lucked out vs. those who did not etc. Even if it was not intended many implementations did feel like sabotage for many players in a multitude of choices that the developers picked.

    Remember, management is nowhere near aware of the intricacies a developer chooses to make. In most cases management is given a very broad direction of the project and it is solely the developers choice on how they go about implementing it. Remember no tank gear yet they created a bis for tanking and ultimately is the end gear to progress to when their is no content to replace it.

    Also if you eliminate 20 player content the possibilities of group make up is now basically halved from 20 to 10 then ommon sense would have been to make groups less limited not more limited to encourage more diverse combinations. And why did they stop with individual loot rewards which took the blame out of other players hands? Who is to blame for these choices ? The manager, or the developer? It was a collective problem. If you look at other games under the same umbrella you can find some similar problems about PTW so yes it was also a management issue as well.
    This. There is plenty of blame to go around. The management wrecked the company and had a hand in wrecking the game. The devs do not and should not get a break. Find anything good in this expac? They built it, they put it out, they put in planar fragments, got rid of 20 man raiding, introduced this lame as hell loot system, put in the rng, the ridiculous grinds etc. It is a combo, but none of them should get a free ride. Those live streams and drinking beer while Telara burned looks even worse in hindsight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clowd View Post
    However, given all of my discussions with individual devs, and the anonymous information I have been given, and the anonymous sources I've talked to since the layoffs, I feel confident in saying that individual devs who create content/features are not to blame for any part of this situation. Even those who have been around for a long time and might be part of the "Watercooler Club" you claim exists.
    Players predicated that Rift was in maintenance mode even after stark denial from certain employees going back to before they launched prime. Even if it was all speculative they were right all along. At this point we can't even see a future ahead of us yet for Rift players.
    No matter how crazy it seemed it looked like the players were far more dependable for a source of correct information. I have no inside information but as I read the purple names and watched the behavior of those on stream I don't really feel optimistic at all about Rift and its future. I mean they basically said they can't work because of x, y , and z. And that was people with 9 years experience working on the game. How are new developers going to carry the torch when the ones carrying it now can't even hold it up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    How are new developers going to carry the torch when the ones carrying it now can't even hold it up?
    your assuming one group is as good and the same as the next ... you do know what they say about assuming , right? (i hope so I'm not sure i could spell it out on forums) ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin666 View Post
    your assuming one group is as good and the same as the next ... you do know what they say about assuming , right? (i hope so I'm not sure i could spell it out on forums) ...
    Better to assume than to presume. You presume that there will actually be another "group" working on Rift. And yes, I get your joke. For what it is worth I can see why they clearly wanted trove and defiance for its multi platform capabilities. I can't see it with Rift though. Either way I rather be pleasantly surprised if things do work out.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 11-05-2018 at 05:06 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manasha View Post
    +1 for the PIL vid.
    This song just popped in my mind. It is a rare one for sure that most people have no clue about, so thanks for the music recognition.

    To everyone else in this thread, Imagine working for a company with zero direction and you still have to do your job and get paid...We all know how most things work here, there is the ones that make decisions above you, you have to agree with them to keep a roof over your heads. If the dev's had utter freedom, I truly don't see this game in the state its in if that were the case. Don't ya think someone would step in and say "no, this is not how it should go"??? Especially the ones who have been here for years. It just doesn't make sense to blame them.

    But back to what Clowd said, we will never know the details of things and that is the sad truth. The common sense thing for me is to think that say it was me in their shoes I would challenge the managers/leaders that have no idea how the game is doing, they just bring ideas to the table and let them take over which isn't fair to the rest of the team. Sure this team has had plenty warning and even me saying things about a year ago how they should operate. Also whoever blamed one dev on here is full of ****. You don't do that when you have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. I have no idea. I just wanna give props of what I did see and it was much more than what we are getting now. So, I think that we all just need to chill and see. In the meantime, why not try to be positive for the game? Look at EQ2, **** is so outdated but they still get content? The game is still breathing above water, so with that I'm gonna hope for the very best. Also daybreak didn't do anything for a while they reskined **** which for me was the que for me to leave. I even talked to a dev about it and they gave me a hard time about my *****ing because all they were doing was a big flat nothing! They got rid of pvp all together and people still stick to that game like glue and still are.

    All I was doing is giving props to the ones that deserve it and and far as I can see they all do, because who stays with a dying game to begin with, the last dev's here prove longevity if anything. Look at the dev's that left over the years, especially in the recent years. So these guys deserve some kind of love because without them holding the game up, it would have fallen already. For us that love this game IT IS A BIG DEAL. I don't wanna hear your negative ******** either how you think the game should have died years ago, well thats your opinion but honestly the people that love this game and support it are far more worthy than some old player that has a snotty tude about the game. Move on yourself already! People just blow my mind sometimes how they can get on these forums and talk about how bad the game is/was. Why be here? Seriously? I have told this dev team to f off plenty of times but I had that right because I have been playing all this time and still am and putting money into the game.

    you either want to be here or ya don't, its simple. Stop talking ******** just cause you see a game made bad decisions, like you never have in your life?? I think these dev's that stuck to the very end deserve some type of applause, because without them, the game would have been overtown already and for the dev's that left early, maybe they seen what was going on and they didn't care for it so they left.
    I think looking back over the years, its easy to see things more clearly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clowd View Post
    Can we give these accusations a break already? We don't have many details at all regarding how each dev could prioritize their time during normal work hours. Yes, some of them supported leadership decisions, but it's doubtful they agreed 100% of the time.

    However, given all of my discussions with individual devs, and the anonymous information I have been given, and the anonymous sources I've talked to since the layoffs, I feel confident in saying that individual devs who create content/features are not to blame for any part of this situation. Even those who have been around for a long time and might be part of the "Watercooler Club" you claim exists.

    I agree with you on thing, I, too, am lead to believe that something broke along the management and marketing chain, something just went... wrong. I don't know what, and I doubt I'll learn what.

    We can speculate about what happened behind the scenes until we're blue in the face, we can speculate about which devs fed into it or didn't, but it will be that - speculation regarding an individual.
    Look, there was no friggen possibility that there weren't a few members of the company that didn't have a title that were glad to participate in this tailspin. I firmly without your permission stated so. While that was the case, do I believe that many of the non titled were involved? NO I do not. I do believe it rests on management including the CEO at a rate of 90%.
    Last edited by BMX; 11-05-2018 at 07:45 PM.
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  15. #15
    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clowd View Post
    Can we give these accusations a break already? We don't have many details at all regarding how each dev could prioritize their time during normal work hours. Yes, some of them supported leadership decisions, but it's doubtful they agreed 100% of the time.

    However, given all of my discussions with individual devs, and the anonymous information I have been given, and the anonymous sources I've talked to since the layoffs, I feel confident in saying that individual devs who create content/features are not to blame for any part of this situation. Even those who have been around for a long time and might be part of the "Watercooler Club" you claim exists.

    I agree with you on thing, I, too, am lead to believe that something broke along the management and marketing chain, something just went... wrong. I don't know what, and I doubt I'll learn what.

    We can speculate about what happened behind the scenes until we're blue in the face, we can speculate about which devs fed into it or didn't, but it will be that - speculation regarding an individual.
    Well while I agree with most things you said, I must tell this devs (even I appreciate for their work all the time and I chat with most of them) also was in fault as well as players in this whole situation, that's what I referred other day on Ghar Station discord, everyone who is involved with game is sharing their fair amount of responsibility and failure for all situation is going on.

    While most of the failure is result of management and possibly marketing people, community team who should be bridge between players and development team, mostly acted all fine, didn't rely everything directly to team and team mostly avoided all interactions with players even on official forums.

    I know they had their reasonings but classifying all players same and all efforts done by certain amount of people to point issues in all relevant way discarded by team, like on discord or skype groups either devs take their leave because they were being too much defensive to any kind of discussion, they mostly avoided concerns and all ethical discussions, most of them I saw on old Kiwi discord was politely talking with each other but in the end I'll never forget this reply done by Vladd, it was something like this;


    I'm working on gaming industry more than 20 years and I know better than you all, thats why I decide to what should be done


    Maybe it wasn't exact words but it was 99% something like this, we were talking about on going balance issues and why in first place Mystic Archer developed. He also mentioned he ordered Keyens (the class dev back in that period thou all knows it) to make that soul and Archonix requested making new souls which we were supposedly getting for other callings but all discussion was about how broken is class balance, legendaries and eternals effecting it.

    While devs had their reasoning with not releasing T3 raid because of reaching limits on HP values due to 32bit limitations, they could work and release another T2 raid or open world bosses for more activity.


    In the end we kept getting rehashed world events, nothing for pve, only 1 warfront for pvp while most pvp issues discarded.

    As I mentioned we players also share fair amount of blaming, because while some of us try to be vocal on forums in every aspect to helping game most of us kept being silent, didn't even try to mention their concerns or act like everything is fine.

    On October 20, 2017, missed updates became apparent to players when promised releases didn't make the deadline.

    ^This quote from wikipedia about Marvel Heroes, do you see some similarity with RIFT? I do promises done on forums, discord channels or livestreams never fullfilled for almost 2 years.
    Do you remember when they mentioned prime wouldn't interfere with development of live? We were supposedly getting IGSB on May (originally when GSB released on prime) then this kept getting delayed.

    While prime also wasn't getting any actual love still most development done to there and all of this were literally rushed out of no where with no reason.

    Biggest managemental problem TRION ever did, trying to be multigaming company instead of getting success with 1 game for a long period, as you know RIFT went from premium model to F2P even F2P increased revenues of RIFT back to where it was on original launch (you can find all this information from old employee profiles on linkedin), this game was making hundred of million dollars but all its revenue spend on games and projects which was failure.

    Interestingly only successful game of TRION after RIFT's launch was Trove and Trove was actually an idea of old RIFT developer and they didn't fund him like defiance or atlas reactor (ofcourse they had some funds from TRION directly) they let them to release founder packs/support packs like what we see on Path of Exile, this packs actually raised so much fund for Trove.

    ArcheAge was only non TRION developed game making some more revenue to them with it's disaster level pay to win shop but they also ruined it.


    As I said above my posts on other day at Ghar Station was actually referencing this, while dimensioneers believe they are the group with most profit to the Trion, they forget something when there is no more pve/pvp players around but only dimensioneers most of them wouldn't find a person to buy REX because actually most dimensionners I saw in the game buying REX to spent for their premium dim items.

    They are also the only group of players who didn't face content drought because developing new warfront, new dungeon or raid costing way more than creating new dimension area or dim items. I know Salvatrix did most of dim items on her free time but it doesn't change the fact content drought and on going issues of game not fixed on their work time.

    I'm not saying they should fixed all issues or release content every week or month but almost 17 months when game got new zone and content, almost more than year since getting raid and almost more than 2 years but on going class balance issues.

    As I said we players are also reason with what happened because of this way of thinking, same goes for most pve players they kept defending their broken specs while other classes not even coming close to that and I'm talking about 1 button specs not a piano specs with fast reaction time and timing of your abilities.

    In the end what is done is done but thinking like a certain group involved with game is not in fault is wrong from players to CEO, we all did this.
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