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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: DEVS- nerf particles for the disabled?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    I am late to this thread.
    I've asked Nomis to take action regarding the snarky, unhelpful posters.

    I am sorry to see anyone mocking those with disabilities, be they visual, physical or mental. NOT IN OUR HOUSE.

    Let me add: advancing age IS a disability - it affects everything from vision to memory to reaction speed. Vertigo is a disability, and the main reason I cannot complete this stage myself. Color blindness is a rather common disability and the most common complaint in gaming. Any of these can impact the completion of this particular quest.

    These disabilities do not necessarily affect people in raids though - that correlation cannot be made.

    While I have trouble with this quest myself, I know others sail through it.
    I will bring the question to the Dev team again for consideration.
    THANK YOU- as someone who has characters stuck because of the quest, I have tried and last week I had to leave during a raid because I was violently ill still over trying again to complete it. THANK YOU--Edit to add- I suffer from debilitating vertigo to the point we had to buy a condo on ground floor as even 2nd floor makes me ill
    Last edited by Kulta; 10-11-2018 at 09:54 AM.
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  2. #62
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    Guys. You do know that we have heard that "we will look into it" line many times, right ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokken` View Post
    Guys. You do know that we have heard that "we will look into it" line many times, right ?
    and it rarely takes more than 5 years ;)

  4. #64
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    my 25 particles is coming up and I do not see myself getting through it at all, I do think a nice alternative would truly be appreciated. I'm older myself and not as agile as I used to be in mind and everything else, hahaha. Thank you Brasse, I hope you put it to them, I think you will. You are a tough lady I would not wanna mess with if I were a dev , lmao, just sayin.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerhawkT3 View Post
    Yes, it really is. The 3D aspect doesn't disqualify it from being useful. The lesson taught by that quest is that you should avoid bad stuff, even if it lies directly between you and good stuff, which is key in raids. One difference doesn't invalidate the whole thing. If it was 2D, would you still say that it was useless for raiders just because it doesn't have enemies or require ten people to complete?

    The rule being broken is "complete a task to get a reward." Do you really think it would be wise for Trion to start verifying disabilities (with a doctor's note? Will we have to sign HIPPA disclosures? How about undiagnosed disabilities? etc.) and determining which tasks are impossible for each one? You'd not only have people with arthritis wanting to get out of particles, but also people with social anxiety wanting to get out of raids, people with claustrophobia wanting to get out of dungeons, and so on. That doesn't even take into account the manpower it would take to handle all this, which Trion's Rift team obviously doesn't have.

    And I'm going to tell you the same thing I told Hellishly: "You don't know me. You don't know what's easy or difficult for me, and why." Don't assume that anyone who doesn't think video game rewards need to be handed out to the disabled isn't disabled, or is "indifferent or callous."
    It is your own comments that are making you look indifferent and callous, not anyone's assumptions.

    The particles are completely unrelated to any raid at all. Raids are not hard. Some raiders want to think they are so elite, but not standing in red circles is NOT HARD. Spinning around like an idiot in the air for particles doesn't teach you anything to do with raiding as it exists in Rift. Your comments about planning and navigating an area are laughable, because it really CAN be reduced to "don't stand in red circles". That's it. It doesn't require "training".

    And I know we've heard before that they were taking it under advisement. But the other good point made is that they ALREADY HAVE nerfed it several times. They took out Wicket completely. Was Wicket stopping ANYONE from completing the eternal weapon? NO. It was just an annoyance. But they removed it anyway because of whiners. And , funnily enough, it looked to me like it was the so-called " hardcore elite raiders" that were the ones whining about it. It was "content" they didn't want to have to complete ( EVEN THOUGH THEY COULD ) and so they complained to get it removed.

    So, they don't have the manpower to change it? They had the manpower to remove Wicket and nerf the number of SPEs.
    Last edited by Innomorata; 10-11-2018 at 07:52 PM.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innomorata View Post
    It is your own comments that are making you look indifferent and callous, not anyone's assumptions.

    The particles are completely unrelated to any raid at all. Raids are not hard. Some raiders want to think they are so elite, but not standing in red circles is NOT HARD. Spinning around like an idiot in the air for particles doesn't teach you anything to do with raiding as it exists in Rift. Your comments about planning and navigating an area are laughable, because it really CAN be reduced to "don't stand in red circles". That's it. It doesn't require "training".

    And I know we've heard before that they were taking it under advisement. But the other good point made is that they ALREADY HAVE nerfed it several times. They took out Wicket completely. Was Wicket stopping ANYONE from completing the eternal weapon? NO. It was just an annoyance. But they removed it anyway because of whiners. And , funnily enough, it looked to me like it was the so-called " hardcore elite raiders" that were the ones whining about it. It was "content" they didn't want to have to complete ( EVEN THOUGH THEY COULD ) and so they complained to get it removed.

    So, they don't have the manpower to change it? They had the manpower to remove Wicket and nerf the number of SPEs.
    If avoiding bad stuff is "NOT HARD," why do so many people die in it so frequently?

    The grinds were reduced to help alts and new players to catch up. I don't think there's much of a chance that Trion will want to get involved in providing disability accommodations, as that would bring in the ADA, HIPPA, etc. which is probably not worth giving a raid weapon to a handful of people, some of whom don't even plan to raid.

    And I would like it if you refrained from the direct personal insults, especially when you have no idea who I am or where I'm coming from; thanks.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innomorata View Post
    It

    The particles are completely unrelated to any raid at all. Raids are not hard. Some raiders want to think they are so elite, but not standing in red circles is NOT HARD. Spinning around like an idiot in the air for particles doesn't teach you anything to do with raiding as it exists in Rift. Your comments about planning and navigating an area are laughable, because it really CAN be reduced to "don't stand in red circles”.

    They took out Wicket completely. Was Wicket stopping ANYONE from completing the eternal weapon? NO. It was just an annoyance. But they removed it anyway because of whiners. And , funnily enough, it looked to me like it was the so-called " hardcore elite raiders" that were the ones whining about it. It was "content" they didn't want to have to complete...trimmed some of the fat here
    I don’t care either way about removing/ keeping the particle quest. But, I’d like to point a couple things out. I’ve completed the 25 particle achievement multiple times and it seems the easiest way to accomplish the goal is to hold down the right mouse button to quickly pivot your character. This definitely IS a skill that is useful in raid for avoiding moving “red” which in turn allows your to perform better in raid. Even if you don’t die because standing in red isn’t hard, your dps/ hps will suffer due to missed globals and general inability to use spells when needed to maximize dps. If someone’s goal is not to min/ max then pivoting with the right mouse button held down isn’t a big deal. However, it’s still a useful skill.

    I don’t think Rift actually has any hardcore elite raiders anymore, but the removal of Wicket was not for that group to begin with. That group had already completed their 16 weeks of IROTP clears and no longer cared about Wicket since the quest was account based. iROTP was released sometime in June/ July of 2017. Most raiders already had their first eternal weapon stage completed and only needed iROTP clears. The eternal weapons were introduced with enough time for players to complete all but the last level of the quest BEFORE even stepping foot into IROTP. Meaning, the nerf was not for these people as they were already beyond the Wicket stage before the first T1 raid was even released. Raiders complained about Wicket because clicking minion sender was not content and it was really a 1.5(if you used credits)-3 week stall tactic. I like the changes they made to the eternal grind but all of those changes were for new/ returning players
    / alts as a catch-up mechanic.
    Last edited by Allegory; 10-11-2018 at 10:28 PM.
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  8. #68
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    Make the particles count for everybody in the group would be a nice fix. People who can't finished it for whatever reason can get carried by others and solo players still have a "challenging" quest.
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  9. #69
    Rift Disciple Allegory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keepor View Post
    Make the particles count for everybody in the group would be a nice fix. People who can't finished it for whatever reason can get carried by others and solo players still have a "challenging" quest.
    Please do this and letís never talk about particles again.
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  10. #70
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    Instead of adjusting the particle quest, maybe just make the upgraded version of the eternal weapon available on the questgiver. Allow people to upgrade it normally or have the questgiver hand you the upgraded version for the "second to last stage" version and 20 Tenebrian engines.

    Seems a fair trade off. It still requires work on the part of the players who can't do the particles. And it doesn't make finishing it trivial.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by keepor View Post
    Make the particles count for everybody in the group would be a nice fix. People who can't finished it for whatever reason can get carried by others and solo players still have a "challenging" quest.
    This actually seems like a very sensible and quite ingenious solution. Not one I would approve of of course, but I also understand when a fight is not worth fighting.

    Instead of changing the quest which Trion will never do, I'm sure a simple programming change could give the completion to everyone in the group.

    1. This would satisfy all the slow, disabled and old players (yep you're all getting shoved into one category, sorry)

    2. Someone's still actually doing it, so it's not completely forgotten. That person can feel good about themselves helping other people do it, without the hassle of logging onto their accounts. If they want, they can charge for it, so essentially giving a platinum bypass to a raid weapon.


    I would also like to add that this should be a somewhat close range achievement. I would hate doing it for someone who's sitting on their arse in Tempest Bay, at least make them be in the same zone, or situated on the top platform. Which makes me think, is it so simple? What if the other started trying to jump aswell? How would the game distinguish who made it to 25? A little more thought is required I guess.
    Last edited by Refuge; 10-12-2018 at 05:42 AM.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegory View Post
    Iíve completed the 25 particle achievement multiple times and it seems the easiest way to accomplish the goal is to hold down the right mouse button to quickly pivot your character. This definitely IS a skill that is useful in raid for avoiding moving ďredĒ which in turn allows your to perform better in raid. Even if you donít die because standing in red isnít hard, your dps/ hps will suffer due to missed globals and general inability to use spells when needed to maximize dps. If someoneís goal is not to min/ max then pivoting with the right mouse button held down isnít a big deal.
    I don't see how you would lose dps by not pivoting with mouse. You don't have to look the boss in the face you know. You can throw those casts over your shoulder. You can either move directly to left or right or turn in the direction you want to move (or partially) before the mechanic occurs.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by keepor View Post
    Make the particles count for everybody in the group would be a nice fix. People who can't finished it for whatever reason can get carried by others and solo players still have a "challenging" quest.
    This isn't such a bad idea. Currently people who can't do it may decide to share their account details to friends so they can do it for them. This would make it easier for friends to help them with this and you don't have to break the official rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    Which makes me think, is it so simple? What if the other started trying to jump aswell? How would the game distinguish who made it to 25? A little more thought is required I guess.
    The particles could add up. I know this makes it very trivial. You could view it as practically removing this requirement from the eternal.

  14. #74
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    I am glad this thread has legs. Perhaps they might revisit it again and make some type of change for those who had issues with it.

    The suggestion i liked the most was to add more blue circles :P

    It took me a very long time to get 25 particles, and I do not have a normal disability other than having a hard time to see the distance perspective of the red/blue overlapping a bit in my eyes. So i run into red, and then game, set, match over!

    Turning around very quickly also gives me a bit of vertigo-related issues as well.

    I do NOT think this has any bearing whatsoever on raid performance. I have encountered every mob in the game and have killed them all. The only boss I had ever any problems with was Thrax and that was because i cannot strafe and jump at the same time easily, but other than that, this to me is actually harder than clearing BoS. This test has nothing to do with raiding IMO. It is simply a puzzle that is challenging for some and a breeze for others.

    Hopefully something will come out in the near future to allow those *stuck* to advance.

    The main point here to understand is if some people cannot do a quest for whatever reason that is (doesn't matter), it is okay to bring it up to see if their might be an alternative. There is no shame in asking for this and there is no point in putting down those who are unable to do it!
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onebutton View Post
    I am glad this thread has legs. Perhaps they might revisit it again and make some type of change for those who had issues with it.

    The suggestion i liked the most was to add more blue circles :P

    It took me a very long time to get 25 particles, and I do not have a normal disability other than having a hard time to see the distance perspective of the red/blue overlapping a bit in my eyes. So i run into red, and then game, set, match over!

    Turning around very quickly also gives me a bit of vertigo-related issues as well.

    I do NOT think this has any bearing whatsoever on raid performance. I have encountered every mob in the game and have killed them all. The only boss I had ever any problems with was Thrax and that was because i cannot strafe and jump at the same time easily, but other than that, this to me is actually harder than clearing BoS. This test has nothing to do with raiding IMO. It is simply a puzzle that is challenging for some and a breeze for others.

    Hopefully something will come out in the near future to allow those *stuck* to advance.

    The main point here to understand is if some people cannot do a quest for whatever reason that is (doesn't matter), it is okay to bring it up to see if their might be an alternative. There is no shame in asking for this and there is no point in putting down those who are unable to do it!
    I hope so too. This is not just an oh well thing
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