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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: PTS BoS LFM

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    The mix bag of T1 geared players will definitely struggle a bit. A whole lot better for bringing a couple of them with some T2 geared players though. I am not so sure about the last boss. I just watched the stream. Looked like those adds died super fast. I am guessing you had more than 2 players AEing and cleaving but since you had warrior dps they seem to do well. Were they cleaving in RB or using reaver? I struggled with my warrior/cleric dps group so just wondering what the specs were on the last boss and how many were cleaving. I saw elementalist and shaman, was there a second elementalist? It also seemed like the long add phase where you dodge adds was reduced a bit. That looks like it helped but not so sure. It could have been how fast you guys killed adds.

    Only one Elementalist. I was playing Warlock.
    I think that's two reavers as well

    Logs are here if you like
    Last edited by Archyface; 08-14-2018 at 09:22 PM.
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    Edit: Archy posted logs as I was posting my own feedback. Check for more in depth parses on his.
    The current nerfs on PTS are 2% to damage and 8% to HP. The nerfs coming to live tomorrow will be roughly half of that so I think quite a few groups will still struggle, but that's partly why we tested. Not to mention is better to release minor incremental nerfs at a time.



    - Everyone's mostly in full T2. Some with more upgrades than others.
    - Final Stage Eternals
    - No stones, vials or sigils
    - A couple people redid the frags, but for the most part we all just used what we had after the copy.
    - Tried to mimic the average group going in with different comps with lower dps on purpose.

    Commander Isiel
    1 31 Vulcanist
    1 Ele/pyro
    1 Pyro/warlock
    1 Nb/sab
    1 Archon (full dps)
    2 Tanks
    2 Chantions (1 15% link)
    1 Oracle

    I don't remember if anyone died during this kill, but we were around 30seconds from enrage with this parse and some mof that is still with partial cleave from leftover adds and whenever vindicator tank taunts isiel over so nb/sab will be closer to 700k or so. This is going to be a nice change for the majority of guilds, especially entry level ones. This is assuming these current changes eventually make it to live.

    Note for players: Just because we used a nb/sab doesn't mean you should still play it. We just used it to mirror lower dps for average level groups going in. Playing the right specs with appropriate rotations is always going to be necessary for raids.

    Titan X
    1 Primalist Tank
    1 31 Vulcanist
    1 Shaman
    2 Reavers
    1 Chant
    1 Ele/pyro
    1 Warlock
    1 61 Nightblade
    1 Archon

    As the others have mentioned, the HP nerf to spigots is really helpful. Gives a little more room to clear out the adds before they enrage. This fight relies heavily on having the right cleave capable classes/comp so it makes it that much harder when you don't have them in your own runs. The 61 nb and shaman already had melee spots so I didn't get to test Riftblade cleave and reaver generally has too much ramp up time to cleave reliably on top of capping at 3 targets for most abilities.
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 08-14-2018 at 10:40 PM.

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  3. #18
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    Well done guys.

    I must say I am not sure why they only implemented half of the PTS change. I would happily reduce the damage output on the second boss by 5-10% so 1% seems pretty insignificant. If a new tier was coming I am fairly sure they would make larger changes and perhaps they might if we got another one.

    Incremental changes as you say. Slow and steady.
    Last edited by Balidin; 08-15-2018 at 08:12 AM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balidin View Post
    I would happily reduce the damage output on the second boss by 5-10% so 1% seems pretty insignificant.
    ^^^ THIS!

    The HP nerf is welcome but I don't find it frustrating to not be able to kill the boss because people play the wrong specs. What irritates me more than anything else on boss #2 is the RNG on instagibbing the tank. That's not a fun mechanic. That's just a giant middle finger to the raid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post
    This fight relies heavily on having the right cleave capable classes/comp so it makes it that much harder when you don't have them in your own runs. The 61 nb and shaman already had melee spots so I didn't get to test Riftblade cleave and reaver generally has too much ramp up time to cleave reliably on top of capping at 3 targets for most abilities.
    Yes, I agree. Cleric is in the worse position when it comes to range cleave. Inquisitor cleave from range is non existent. Defiler could not get its dots up to unholy nexus in any one of those add fights since they would have died too fast or be barely alive to take the cleave damage. And its pathetically low cleave to be honest. Cleric has it the worse if they have to range on that fight. At least reaver did good and you did manage over 1 million damage with reaver on Titan X. Our warriors can barely do 900K. They are not too geared up like you. And at least you can interrupt.

    Elementalist, nb users have no interrupt which usually makes the other classes have to deal with raid mechanics. Since there was lack of primalist in many of our raids and warriors usually just heal that fight. I actually don't recommend to stack clerics. Although I know alot of raid leaders do it to get priority loot. (Which the Individual Loot Reward Should have fixed.) The two clerics in my groups usually only play shaman or one tanks if they have to.

    I think they should just give NB an interrupt at the very least. It is difficult to find other classes to raid with but rogues seem to be very popular still. Mage can use interrupt in that ezmode elementalist spec too but I do find mages hard to find. I think they are all just taken by other raid groups :P and if I pug it usually is mostly cleric, rogue, and warriors left..Barely any mages even though they have fantastic souls for BoS..
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 08-15-2018 at 04:46 PM.

  6. #21
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    I must say I am not sure why they only implemented half of the PTS change. I would happily reduce the damage output on the second boss by 5-10% so 1% seems pretty insignificant. If a new tier was coming I am fairly sure they would make larger changes and perhaps they might if we got another one.

    the damage output on second boss is minor, the onely bad part is the rng with the mines on the tank.
    whe did the it tonight before the nerf, with 2 tank healers and a chlorochon for the raidheals.
    the thing is if you are late on the cleansing in the second fase then you have a problem.
    Last edited by faabs; 08-15-2018 at 03:33 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by faabs View Post
    I must say I am not sure why they only implemented half of the PTS change.
    Quite a few people suggested on discord that they should still release smaller incremental changes as that's still better than releasing nothing at all. It's better to do that than to release a giant nerf to live and have it be overly easy and then have to tune it back up. They've stated several times in the past that it's always a lot easier to tune down than up. This was just prior to us going in and testing the bigger nerf.

    The current pts nerfs are more in line with how it should be, but it was last minute before the reset/hotfix. I think they also want see how these smaller changes pan out for people. If they see more clears between now and the next reset then they might keep it as is, but otherwise they may implement the ones from PTS.
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 08-15-2018 at 06:01 PM. Reason: Typos

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  8.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by faabs View Post
    I must say I am not sure why they only implemented half of the PTS change.
    Holyroller is pretty much spot on with his assessment of why the changes from PTS were not pushed to live. There was a decent amount of concern that the encounter could be negatively impacted by large reductions in health and damage values and we wanted to play it safe and ensure that we did not trivialize something that should present a challenge. We also wanted to wait for some player feedback on the adjustments that were present on PTS before pushing anything that altered Titan X encounter to the Live servers.

  9. #24
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    If it is indeed a 1% damage reduction, that is essentially trivial in my view. The tank damage on the second boss (which forces the use of a link) is very high so a reduction of 1% means almost nothing.I would say there is a large difference between a large change and essentially nothing at all. A 4% hp reduction certainly has some meaning but the damage reduction, to be frank you may have well not bothered with. Please reduce the damage dealt to tanks by at least 5% on the second boss only.

    We obviously know the real reason you are doing very very small tweaks like this is because BoS (a 3 boss raid with re-used assets yada yada) is still after 9+ months the top PvE content in the game. If other content was forcoming I imagine this would be reduced pretty sharpish.

    Sorry I know that Avathar has nothing to do with decisions higher ups made a long time ago about Rift. I don't want to make you sad or anything dude but a lot of us players are and are pretty upset with Trion at how they have treated this game for the last expansion so it seeps out. Keep going.

  10. #25
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    If they don't release new content before holiday season they would lose out on huge sales. Every business knows that releasing new products before that time is how they make a lot of return. And most players come back on holiday break then while workers usually take their breaks. That is only about 16 more times for players to run BoS. With the class rebalance the content was made more difficult in this expansion. It is opposite approach to the other expansions where they eventually nerfed raid tiers to help players lessen the gear disparity between player populations so they can actually play together in the latest new content.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 08-15-2018 at 06:52 PM.

  11. #26
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    Just ran it again with a similar group. I do think the damage is still a bit too high on commander, but that still mainly has a lot to do with the RNG with the amount of mines you can get on you at once. Ended up not killing it for a few different reasons like bad comp so I think quite a few of us will just wait to see if PTS nerfs come to live in another week or two.
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 08-15-2018 at 09:49 PM.

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  12. #27
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    We ran it tonight and i didn't notice any difference at all on any of the bosses.. Did they actually push through the minor nerf? lol. I am a bit confused on what actually changed.

    We killed all 3 bosses pretty much similar to how we did prior to today. No one we talked to actually knew if there was a small nerf or no nerf? Anyone know for sure what was done today?
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  13. #28
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    The health and damage values aren't actually that bad. What wipes most guilds is the RNG mechanics. While the team may not have time to look into these for BoS, this is something that needs to be kept in mind for any future raid encounters.

    Azranel
    Missile Storm - While the mechanic itself is fine, there is no real way of telling who it's going on until they get the debuff. Ontop of that, anyone with high latency tends to get double or even triple ticked from the circles as they are running and with two of these happening at the same time it's even more chaotic.

    - Reduce it to target one person at a time.
    - Increase the delay between the circles dropping.

    Defensive Spin - Happens way too often, it's a total nightmare for anyone wanting to play a melee spec and another thing for targets of missile storm to dodge.

    Commander Isiel
    Seeker Mines - The biggest hurdle on this boss is the randomness of the mines. Where they spawn and how they path. The only thing that is certain is that they spawn near the vindicator. There has been many a times where a bunch of mines spawn ontop of each other taking a huge chunk out of the tanks health while Cannon Blast and Voltaic alone can insta-gib the tank if they hit at the same time.

    There has even been times where a mine has randomly wandered off into the raid and the raid has nowhere to go because they are blocked off on all sides.

    - Mines either need to have a more predictable pattern or they simply need to go.

    Titan X
    Prey Seeker (Ghosts) - I don't even want to start on these. The mechanic is fine but waiting for them to finish spawning every single damn week after all the adds are dead, we still have to wait for these stupid bloody ghosts to finish before we can move on. Nothing frustrates me more than a mechanic where you just stand around doing absolutely nothing.

    - Soon as the rest of the adds are dead, they need to stop!

    Tank Swap
    Who in the world thought it was a good idea to put tank swap mechanics in a 10man. In both encounters, The Off-Tank is only there for one mechanic. The rest of the fight they are just standing around trying to squeeze out as much dps as they can hoping they don't pull aggro.
    Last edited by Waseem2k; 08-15-2018 at 10:27 PM.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post
    Quite a few people suggested on discord that they should still release smaller incremental changes as that's still better than releasing nothing at all. It's better to do that than to release a giant nerf to live and have it be overly easy and then have to tune it back up. They've stated several times in the past that it's always a lot easier to tune down than up. This was just prior to us going in and testing the bigger nerf.
    I struggle to see any positive sides of such tiny nerf. Negative sides are:
    KBM has to be updated
    Players who read about nerf in patch notes will be frustrated as "nerf" will do nothing for groups which cannot kill Isiel currently.

    Dps nerf was huge tune up - if anybody was bothered with tune up, BoS would be nerfed before or together with dps nerf.
    BoS is old content and nobody excited about it anymore - making it much harder was bad, and such nerf is not helping. If proper nerf is not ready for live - wait until it will be ready. Even after 8% nerf it still will be harder than before. I don't see see any point in wasting developers and players time on fine tuning of old content.
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  15. #30
    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isp View Post
    KBM has to be updated
    For what specifically? The mechanics haven't changed and it worked just fine when we were in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isp View Post
    Dps nerf was huge tune up - if anybody was bothered with tune up, BoS would be nerfed before or together with dps nerf.
    I think most people, including myself and those who went in would agree that these nerfs should've been taken into consideration while the balance changes were being made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isp View Post
    BoS is old content and nobody excited about it anymore - making it much harder was bad, and such nerf is not helping. If proper nerf is not ready for live - wait until it will be ready. Even after 8% nerf it still will be harder than before. I don't see see any point in wasting developers and players time on fine tuning of old content.
    I think there's still a lot of people who want to do BoS, especially a lot more casual guilds that are still alive and doing fairly well in terms of roster, but just haven't gone in because they don't meet current checks or they can only kill the first boss. I just watched a stream of a guild that went in for the first time on Tuesday and they were genuinely enjoying themselves, but like most had some trouble on commander. Just because you or I don't personally hear about it or see it doesn't mean there aren't people (new or current) that aren't excited to raid out there. I'm personally looking forward to get all of my alts in now that the accessory boxes are BoA.

    There's also no particular downside to the minor nerfs that were put in. It will either help people clear it for those that couldn't before or just not in a consistent manner or it will just be the same as it has always been and more adjustments will be made accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isp View Post
    I don't see see any point in wasting developers and players time on fine tuning of old content.
    Like I said, there's quite a few people out there that asked for and wanted some nerfs to the raid. Avathar or any of the people that took the time to test it with me wouldn't have gone in if we truly thought it was a waste of time.

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