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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Official Feedback Thread: Should Conquests Make a Comeback?

  1. #31
    Shadowlander Slaybae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xydru View Post
    Well, since there isn't a PvP population large enough to fill Warfronts to capacity regularly, I don't see what the point of trying to revive CQ would be. Regular old Warfronts still need help. There's still massive imbalance and the pain of trying to gear up. Nobody wants to spend hours upon hours upon hours grinding for PvP gear or hunting for decent PvP fragments. Try addressing issues there first.
    I Think they realised that CQ which was very popular during SL, had a huge pouplation that quit because of update-screw ups (cant give an estimate but according to some old CQ Guilds, hundreds of people) and that they are looking forward to somehow bring them back.

    But like i said, they need to revert many pvp Changes that caused these said players to quit (such as accessing better pvp gear with higher prestige etc)

    But most importantly………..fix the current class unbalance……...
    Last edited by Slaybae; 06-02-2018 at 11:57 PM.

  2. #32
    Plane Touched jkelley393's Avatar
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    Not until you have a solid answer to one question: How and with whom are you going to fill three full raids?

    Conquest is large-scale combat - large teams, large map. Teamwork and coordination is where the fun of Conquest comes from. Conquest as an event was doomed when forming teams was no longer allowed. Of course it had gone wrong long before that - 20 people stomping on a handful of pugs isn’t fun either. But it was never the players’ fault that there weren’t enough people joining to make full teams. Where are you going to get at least 60 willing participants and who will they be? Until you can answer that, you will not be able to turn back the clock to when Conquest was good.

    Even at the launch of Prime it might not have been too late to bring Conquest back, but now I think it is.

  3. #33
    Shadowlander Carox's Avatar
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    Hello again, RIFT developers and fellow community.

    Yes. there is imbalance issues but it looks like they are actively fixing it so let's not go down that road again for a moment and stay on the topic at hand.

    Once those issues are addressed... what's wrong with bringing back conquest on LIVE servers? Nothing.
    If they are willing to put in the effort to give PVPers removed content back, why complain?
    The reason PVP is "dead" is because people have their PVP gear and max prestige. Why continue to play it if it's just a repeat without actually upgrading anything? I guess because of the sheer fun of playing with other PVPers but that only lasts so long.
    However, there is always ways to deal with increases and decreases in the playerbase of certain types of content but if you want to for sure decrease it, you remove it which is what was done but that's like saying "20 man raids aren't filling, remove all raids". Seems silly, yes?

    Regardless, if the concern is also that they might not fill 20 vs 20 vs 20... Why not bring it back, turn it on, test it on LIVE servers and see what happens? If it doesn't fill, make it 15 vs 15 vs 15 or 10 vs 10 vs 10.

    Honestly, if you leave more doors open, there is more opportunity for pleasing the playerbase rather than if you close them.

    TIPS:

    Don't mix PVP with PVE like conquest power or loot required for PVE upgrades and fix the following things;

    - Current slayers gear;
    -- Armor: helm, shoulders, chest, gloves, belt, legs and feet.
    -- Accessories: cape, necklace, earrings, rings, trinket and seal.
    -- Weapons: Two-hands, One-hands, Ranged.
    ***All with tiers from blue to relic using upgrade parts bought with favor.
    - Current slayers gear switched to vengeance and valor stats instead of hit.
    - Gear set bonuses with appropriate PVP crystals.
    - Consumables;
    -- Remove: *OLD* mercenary's manastones, mercenary's powerstones, mercenary's witchstones, mercenary's insoles, mercenary's riding chaps, mercenary's armor plating from the PVP NPC in TB.
    -- Add: *NEW* slayer's manastones, slayer's powerstones, slayer's witchstones, slayer's insoles, slayer's riding chaps, slayer's armor plating appropriate to this expansion bought with favor from the PVP NPC in TB.
    - Make PVE gear not be BiS, period for any PVP activity, duels included (if possible).
    - PVP souls like we used to have. Example; Vindicator
    - Warfronts with players levels 65-69 and level 70 in separate queues.
    - 5 vs 5 map reinstated. (maybe?)
    - Battle of Port Scion map reinstated.
    - Conquest reinstated (hourly);
    -- Stillmoor, Steppes of Infinity OR a completely new map from one of the PoA zones with a cache at the end giving the winning team the last upgrade part to get to the next tier with other random PVP related rewards such as challenger marks, favor etc. as RNG.
    - Give us back the ability to queue as a raid for conquest.
    - Take away the ability to queue warfronts with more than 2-3 people unless 5 vs 5 map is reinstated then allow 5.
    - PVP quests;
    -- Add: An open world PVP one in VP zone like The Dendrome/Steppes of Infinity in SL days.
    - Leaderboard updates;
    -- Add: The Tenebrean Prison and their objective information from players.
    - Leaderboard reset. (maybe?)
    - Ratings;
    -- Win percentage
    -- Win, Lose and Ties
    ***All reset. (maybe?)

    Please do take my suggestions into consideration because I'm sure a lot of the PVP community will come flying back.
    Feel free to give constructive criticism in return. I would greatly appreciate it.

    Just my two cents. Take it or leave it.

    Thank you for taking the time to read.

    See you out there in Telara.
    Last edited by Carox; 06-03-2018 at 09:40 PM.
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  4. #34
    Plane Touched Learan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaviey View Post
    -RIFT Team
    Yes to both!
    It would be nice to have some incentive. Maybe a bis trinket(bis stats and pvp proc)

    Wishlist:

    Daily world event quest. Maybe one event through each xpac throughout the week that give nice rewards.
    Monday - CQ
    Tuesday - Volan
    Wed - Mentor quest (mentor and complete a lower level dungeon)
    Thurs - Open World pvp areas and quest. (like in ember island).

    You get the idea.
    Last edited by Learan; 06-03-2018 at 02:50 PM.
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  5. #35
    Ascendant Rgizil's Avatar
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    1. It should be brought back on Live
    2. No Steppes CQ
    3. Full 20 man Premades

    If Conquest is going to make at least an attempt at a semi-successful return, all 3 of those things need to happen. You can debate in this thread about class balance and gear and rewards and anything else you want.


    But as someone who does like to think he has a fairly decent idea of what would make CQ remotely playable and populated again would be all 3 of those things. Anything less and it wont get off the ground.
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  6. #36
    Plane Walker
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    It is a tremendous amount of work to maintain it on Live and Prime. If that amount of effort is willing to go into maintaining CQ at an acceptable playability, allowing it on prime would be more rewarding as an exclusive offer. There will be a lot of negative blow back on live because the way PvP and CQ was restructured on live.

    As for Prime I would tie it to PvE so that PvE does not get overshadowed by it. Tying it to a specific event that must be completed to open it up for example Volan, Ember Isle zone event etc. will allow for players to participate in PvE instead of afk and wait for each CQ. This can help to force activities from all types of players to engage in rather than one or the other.

    Also, I would consider making a small entrance requirement to make CQ feel like end game content for pvpers by linking it to your prestige rank as well as your level. For instance, players must hit a certain rank to get in. Maybe rank 30 or 40. An option to consider is fully bolstering players in CQ and making it so at specific prestige ranks you get pvp bonuses exclusive to PvP only. This would encourage people to rank up in warfronts as well. Do not underestimate emotes, cosmetics, mounts, and titles as rewards. Seriously that tied with the Prestige rank PvP bonuses should be all that is really necessary to keep players interested in CQ.

    It would be better on Prime because I feel there are more players online at various times of the day since you have a mix of mostly EU/NA/AU players on Prime. This would make pvp much more interesting throughout the day rather than how it was on live where you had off hours and barely any competition during those times.

    I would say limiting groups to 10 man overall could be considered. A total FFA would work better off on live if that is ever considered. There is so much disparity with PvP fragments and classes haven't been thoroughly looked at for balancing in PvP with complaints on some souls going back almost a year or so now. We have no way of knowing how some souls will behave in PvP in a massive environment and what complaints would be made of some souls which would possibly cause a pve vs. pvp player rift as players will bring back one of the biggest complaints and that is that they had their class nerfed indirectly or directly as a result of PvP or PvE.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 06-04-2018 at 06:02 AM.

  7. #37
    Soulwalker
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    first dont mix pve stuff whit pvp no pve reward in conquest its just when pvp had his own path of progres it was good pvp rank prestige and armor that had requirements earn to use it this where true pvp soul was
    Last edited by GrounDust; 06-03-2018 at 10:55 PM.

  8. #38
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    Absolutely not!

    Rift doesn't have the PvP population to support large scale CQ and we all know that means Trion will bully PvE players / raiders to participate willy nilly.

    The only way I would be ok with CQ returning is if the following was met:
    - absolutely no PvE benefit from participating (no storm cells / tenebrean engines / BIS PvE trinket / PvE equipment / raid marks)
    - no abomination like CQ power to harangue PvE players to join because there are not enough PvP players to fill CQ
    - proper spec balance because the continuous nerfs to PvE specs because of PvP content really need to stop
    - Rift dev team large enough to bring out sufficient PvE content before tackling stuff like CQ

  9. #39
    General of Telara arus2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carox View Post
    - Current slayers gear;
    -- Armor: helm, shoulders, chest, gloves, belt, legs and feet.
    -- Accessories: cape, necklace, earrings, rings, trinket and seal.
    -- Weapons: Two-hands, One-hands, Ranged.
    ***All with tiers from blue to relic using upgrade parts bought with favor.
    - Current slayers gear switched to vengeance and valor stats instead of hit.
    - Gear set bonuses with appropriate PVP crystals.
    I'll be that guy and assert that PvP gear is a mistake.

    Now, hear me out. I imagine the initial thought some may have to reading that is, "Then what do PvPers have to look forward to?" and my generic response would simply be the thrill over battle. However, what PvP gear facilitated is a gap of mathematical efficacy between those who did it a lot and those who simply did not. If the intent is to actually create a level playing field, you can not have one side being x% stronger. This plays a big role in discouraging the more casual player when they're stomped over and over and over by people with the gear that lets them pwn. Yet, we also know Trion tried a form of bolstering, which didn't really solve the problem, either. People were still getting rolled, even if part of that is a direct result of class imbalances, things like pre-mades vs. PUGs, or your side not having a healer (or someone actually willing to do it well).

    Of course, in the warfront of conquest style encounter, I don't believe PvE gear should be a factor, either. Math up some stat variations for soul combos. Make everyone statistically naked. Ban consumables. How the equality is achieved doesn't matter to me so much as stressing more that success is about skill and quick-thinking than who just did more grinding (and is willing to throw more resources at a problem). Generally speaking, my disdain for PvP across various MMOs over time has been that it's more about one side wanting to be able to grief others than it is about actually being challenged by non-AI opponents. In the open world, that'd be something like highbies (sometimes in groups) ganking lowbies (often alone), while here in warfronts, it'd be the aforementioned gear problem. Of course, the open world experience is still a wildcard and PvE gear would be a factor, but at least Live has the option of PvE servers so those not looking to be griefed can play unmolested.

    Otherwise, if you still NEED reward for PvP antics, then keep it in the field of cosmetics. Weapons, armor, and mounts to look at are all fine. Things like BiS trinkets were not. Some may posit that would hamper motivation to play, but that really just takes me back to the types of players. Which is more important, the challenge or the numbers? I have my bias on which side would be more popular, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

  10. #40
    Sword of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    I never had a chance to play Conquest but from reading the comments above I don't think I'm too bothered either.

    Most of the bg's are actually well made and would simply be that much more fun with a bit of balancing tweaks.

    My worry though is when they decide to balance Warrior Legendaries this will have a significant impact on PvP and make warriors even stronger. So no, I don't particularly want to see new content if PvP is potentially going to get worse after further balance changes.

    Maybe other Pvper's can comment here, but from what I can gather there's 3 distinct categories of balance at the moment:

    A team: Warriors, Primalists and Rogues
    It's hard to say who's the strongest in this set. You get amazing players and bad players, but I believe a decent rogue would trump the 3.
    B team: Clerics
    C team: Mages
    Last edited by Refuge; 06-08-2018 at 01:19 AM.
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  11. #41
    Sword of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    context.
    PvP would die in this game without an overall objective of getting stronger, it's as simple as that. If you PvP enough in this game you'll notice that the long lasting better players only enjoy it because they get an advantage from time invested. Sounds negative, but there you go, it's the truth, they don't particularly want to be on an even playing field. They wouldn't play this game if that was the case! Fragments right now is the true grind.

    Rewards can't be rankings/winrate/leaderboards as that would just get exploited. Possibly cosmetics, but that's also Dev investment.

    I mean it's not all that bad. It takes honestly a week to get everything you need from favour using favour pots once a day and if you're patron you usually gain an abundance of these if you don't PvP much.

    Admittedly it's horrible at first. To go into a bg without PvP gear compares to a lvl 40 facing a lvl 70, it's digusting, and that's when the PvP gear is only one rank of blues!
    Last edited by Refuge; 06-08-2018 at 01:30 AM.
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  12. #42
    Telaran Bruine's Avatar
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    Firstly - I want CQ back. If it is brought back and is once again a game that is highly populated and fun due to it being implemented for the present day generation player base I will probably return to Rift. These opinions are coming from a player that has played in PUGs, premades, and playing solo in CQ.

    I echo the sentiments that many of the veteran members of the PvP community have stated previously in this thread.

    If CQ is going to be brought back, it CANNOT be the CQ of Nightmare Tide, nor can it be the CQ of Storm Legion or any version that came before. Injecting the last iteration of CQ, tying it to some event reward, and letting it run on the weekends is a strategy that will fail.

    First and foremost CQ needs to be brought back on live - I say this because I believe in order for CQ to be successful it needs to be populated. In order get the numbers needed into CQ you need to make it appeal to new, old, and returning players alike and releasing it on Live would be the way to do that.

    CQ needs to be completely gear normalized - and this had been my opinion since the latter days of Storm Legion when I realized what a fully Myrmidon-armed 20 person premade could do to opposing teams. In large scale combat the gear gap performance delta is exacerbated as you multiply it times 20.

    Increase Premade sizes from 5 to 10: With the normalization change I proposed above, a 10 person premade will not make AS significant a difference in the outcome of battles. At best, a leader will have 9 members of his/her team that he can be trustworthy, skilled, and fill the roles that are needed. PM Leaders: I believe 10 is enough for you to build all of the critical parts for a functioning CQ raid.

    Tutorial on CQ: You'd be introducing a whole new generation of players to a game-mode that they've only heard about in Crossevents in passing and have never experienced it. It's not enough to simply rely on the PvP community to educate any and all newcomers - if CQ is coming back and is tied to some event or cosmetic rewards then you absolutely must provide tutorials on the CQ game mode in-game. Also it's a good idea to tell them that filling your raid with a balance of specs is crucial to winning battles and to work as a team to complete your "objectives" which leads me to my next point...

    Objectives - Simplify CQ Objectives enough to cater to newer players, but not too much: I realize this is a fine balance but I don't consider this point a "nice-to-have", but a critical element to making a return of CQ a success. In previous iterations of CQ the objectives were A) capture x amount of extractors, B) reach 1000 CQ kills (Later reduced at the end of 3.0), and C) "win a match" of CQ. The mechanics of the actual game however did not encourage PvP engagements - so you had entire groups of players avoiding fights and attempting to farm extractors. The only time PvP engagements actively happened was

    A) when leaders instructed their raids to forcefully hunt each other down to achieve kills
    B) at timer, when it was time to jockey for extractor dominance for the final win and finally
    C) at the chest/reward drop.

    My point is that perhaps you could put in some PVE type objective that all players can track on their minimap, or mark random points of contention throughout the match where progress towards an event goal can only happen if your character is present in that region. These regions would have expiry times and then would randomly appear in another area. Essentially force players to congregate in a certain area to fight for an objective, maybe make CQ kills only count if you're in that area.

    My other idea around objectives is to totally revamp the game-type and make it into a territory control map where owning Extractors grants points over time and the faction with the most points wins the match. This is obviously simplifying the game type, but is also inherently self-balancing because the two weaker teams will attack the strongest team to win control back.

    My point is that running around randomly attacking extractors with no objective-based guidance is automatically a poor experience for newcomers to mass pvp.

    Match Time limit of 45 minutes:
    Implement a time limit to matches of 45 minutes - CQ tends to be a massive time sink with little to no reward. Limit the events to a maximum of 45 minutes which will cater to more players who simply can't invest in an hour or more of PvP. This allotment of time should still provide for multiple pitched battles in any case.

    @Trion Devs, and TL;DR

    Normalize everything, create event based objectives, educate the player base on how to achieve objectives, test 10 man premades.


    Let me know your thoughts!
    Bruine@Deepwood
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  13. #43
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    As long as Conquest does not provide raid items (Engines, Storm Cells etc) I don't care.

    Do not make PvEers PvP. Do not greatly reward PvPers with PvE items.

    To clarify: Conquest used to be required to get upgrade parts from 20man raids that you could only run once a week. Terrible odds outside of Conquest. But CQ had a BS mechanic that allows losers to throw tantrums and deny rewards to winners. When you lag in CQ, respawning and reaching the rewards in the limited post-match section was so awful.

    Do not put upgrade components or raid items in CQ
    Last edited by Mizuki Ayu; 06-10-2018 at 09:50 PM.

  14. #44
    Ascendant Seshatar's Avatar
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    The main problems I see:
    - Balancing of gear progression and a fair playground. The previous gear gaps were far too huge.
    - Due to low playerbase hardcore PvPers will probably all in one premade and roflstomp everyone else
    - Conquest had too much PvE objective focus, so it isn't really fun for PvPers. Kills need to provide buffs and/or points to make PvP happen
    - If Conquest runs at unpopular times it will again be 5 man groups winning, so it should only happen few times a week during prime times and therefore also give nice rewards

    In my opinion Conquest should return at some point in the future in a reworked version, but first fix balance, PvP progression and bring players back to the game. Releasing CQ right now would be counterproductive. Same with 20man PvE raids, they should return when (if) you manage to increase the population again, otherwise there would barely anyone running them. Instead make NEW high quality 10 man raids with 3 difficulty tiers (LFR, Normal mode and hardmode buttons for extra loot).
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  15. #45
    Xly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruine View Post
    when I realized what a fully Myrmidon-armed 20 person premade could do to opposing teams
    That was sooo much fun

    BTT - I'd like CQ back in an event form. Normalized gear, make it something like a bi-monthly CQ week(end?). No premades, but use LFG-tech for it (so people can get a useful raid composition).
    Last edited by Xly; 06-11-2018 at 11:54 AM.

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