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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: OFFICIAL: Soul Patch Feedback!

  1. #31
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    So, the nerfbat is outta hiding and we still cannot get some classes buffed to save our lives.

    Nerfdom was never so good!
    Banned

  2. #32
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    My thoughts are for live only as well I only play live.

    TL;DR : Stacking buff changes mostly muted buffs for zero or negative gain except Paragon a bit. Need more buffs and Nerf Warchanter battlesong damage or warrior dps souls are useless.

    I have been working away trying to get some decent and fun specs. Outside of Paragon improving in dps all the other warrior souls are still well below where they should be.

    I believe that changing stacking groups for warrior souls caused this suprising muted change to warrior dps. We are still very much in a hole.

    Warlord:
    "Everything is a weapon", "Piercing Thrust" essentially reduced Warlords overal dps despite the changes. I would revert the both of these. I am not really sure why they were changed for live in the first place as piercing didn't hit hard enough anyway and "Everything..." was high enough in the tree to being exploited too much.

    RiftBlade:
    This soul was so underpowered that it needed considerable buffs and though I was hopeful these changes might help, were not enough to bring this soul back from the dead. The only stacking changes I can see that would effect this soul is the Seargeants order change. I do use this is most Riftblade specs for some good burst potential. It just seems that Riftblade is too underpowered and might actually be dude to some inherent problems in the tree. I would suggest add some passive Attack Power and Strength in the tree somewhere as it replies to heavily on just +non_magical damahe rather than stat increases. I Would also buff Rift Strike damage significantly.

    Reaver:
    I actually find Reaver a lot more enjoyable now that we can essentially keep up dots on one target without issue. Reaver used to be quite clunky with dots falling off and you were faced with the decision to either have no dots for a few seconds or waste time refreshing them one at a time. Again I believe the changes to this souls stacking groups countered the majority of the dps gains but it did go up a little. I would increase Viral stream damager per dot to 30% and maybe pestilence from 25% dot damage to 30%. Having more fun with it though which matters a lot.

    Paragon:
    Paragon doesn't appear to be hit too hard by the stacking changes other than with seargeants order. The effect of this is that it was able to take the most advantage from its soul buffs and has managed to gain 150-200k dps. This is good but I don't think it is there just yet. We have a strnger follow up attack that is unlocked further in the root tree that replaces Rising waterfall when the target is under 30%. Sadly the legendary Rising waterfall makes using this ability (final blessing) a dps loss as it does't bnefit from the extra procs. I would make Rising Waterfall legendary effect Final Blessing as well. I would also increase flurry damage if used after a reaping Harvest so that it actually become a dps gain rather than neutral. I would also increase slightly some damage %'s higher in the tree.

    Tempest:
    Didn't actually recieve any buffs so as a consequence of changing "Lightning Torrent" legendary stacking group and the Warrior mastery "Precision Strikes" stacking group, the overall dps went down by ~100k dps. This soul will need buffs in several places to bring it up again.

    Low lying Legendaries:
    One thing I really dislike about my Warrior class at the moment is the low lying legendary skills, specifically ones which do increased damage whenever you hit the targer after using it. The legendary versions Swift Strike, Ravaging Strike, Shock Pulse and Seasoned strike from Paragon, Reaver, Tempest and Warchanter respectively feel clunky to use and well... meh. I would prefer the Legendary versions to be passive so we don't have to weave in these in.

    THE ELEPHANT:
    Regardless of any changes made to dps souls without breaking the dps capabilities of the Warchanter soul, those dps souls will continue to not be used. Warchanter via the Battlesong legendary and the low lying Champion legendary "Punishing Blow" skill allows this soul to pulse damage constantly all around themselves and 2 other people for well over 1.2 million on some fights while also Tank healing with splash/support heals. While this still exists in Rift the actual warror dps souls are irellevant.
    You need to break this soul's dps. The easiset way to do this is to change punishing blow and reduce the damage of battle song. I am a warrior and I ask you to break our silly OP spec for the good of the class.

  3. #33
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    Chantion needs to be destroyed. I don't think legendary Punishing Blow should be nerfed; make Battlesong a heal-only. No damage from it. Seriously. This spec, which never should have existed, needs to come to an end.

    Nerfing legendary Punishing Blow would end up wiping out Overlord, which is still our 2nd strongest spec.

    As far as other soul feedbacks (for live not prime):
    -Reaver's perpetual DoT is great, and by extension it's nice to see Ravaging Strike make a comeback for slight DPS gain. Before this update RS was completely neutered. I think Reaver is still too reliant on Viral Stream; the DoT balancing is surely more difficult than just adjusting VS but I daresay tone VS down and have the legendary DoTs do a greater percentage of damage (something like 80-85% instead of the current 75%).

    Also I recall Legendary Dire Blow had a damage decrease (a long time ago now), which was always bizarre to me since the strongest Reaver was the Legendary Punishing Blow & Plague Bringer. I'd revert that change.

    -Warlord's Advance planning affecting Decisive Strikes now too is great, my DPS has improved overall

  4. #34
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    Perhaps Battlesong should be changed to only pulse from the warrior and not from the target of their stand tall buffs. This is now 1 pulse instead of three which now makes the dps more of an added bonus rather than turning the soul into a pure dps one that also heals.

    The problem with Punishing Blow is not what it does but it's accessability. For 2 points into a tree you get access to a 125% aoe damage increase on one target. I believe that this sort of power should not be so easily obtainable. For most of Vanilla the ability "Strike Like Iron" in Paragon was available I think for 4 points and increased damage by like 20%. It hampered soul balance being too easily obtainable so they put it way up the tree out of reach.

    Punishing blow could be kept the same but at a lower base % like 10% but increased per point spent in the tree by say 3% up to a maximum level such as 125% or 150%; That way Overlord or similar specs that put considerable points in champion get the same bonus where as a full Champion will have a higher ST output. Could be rubbish but an idea.
    Last edited by Balidin; 05-20-2018 at 08:48 AM.

  5. #35
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    Default More viable soul options

    We asked for more viable competitive options within the soul trees. Instead we went the other way. Mage Warlock (one of my favorite souls in the game) took a beating with the latest patch. Primalist is my current
    favorite class to play still has no viable cleave st options even in the remote ballpark of other classes. Only standout thing they did was single target dps and now it is just meh after the primal lord nerf bat.

    Rouges untouched and even slightly buffed in some cases especially with tank soul. This imo is the only class that is where it should be. I am hoping more changes are coming. We will see.

  6. #36
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    I'm sorry but overlord is a terrible excuse for not nerfing Punishing Blow. It's a terrible spec to begin with. A spec that does free cleave as part of it's single target rotation. This is why rogues are deemed overpowered, due to one damn ability that ruins it for everyone. It also suffers from a 5m range penalty, making the spec useless in many fights.

    Warrior has other souls that are slowly becoming more viable and they should be the main damage dealers, not some stupid hybrids that use aoe and/or healing souls. Even 61wl with PB+Stand and Deliver does more dps than many of the other specs.

    As mentioned above, punishing blows damage bonus should be reduced or at the very least only affect champion abilities. Yes it breaks some of your favourite hybrids but having more options is better than stupid gimmick specs.
    Last edited by Waseem2k; 05-20-2018 at 12:44 PM.
    Rompalstomp - Raid Lead / Warrior Lead "Nefarious"

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    We continue to collect data (quantitative) and your feeback (qualitative) and work will never end on soul adjustments. Thank you all for taking part in the process!
    Brasse
    How exactly do you get this data? Do you only use data from your own tests or do you also use data from the live server and if so which data do you use?

    Are pages like https://prancingturtle.com helpful for you or are such data not used because you get much more accurate data internally?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem2k View Post
    I'm sorry but overlord is a terrible excuse for not nerfing Punishing Blow. It's a terrible spec to begin with. A spec that does free cleave as part of it's single target rotation. This is why rogues are deemed overpowered, due to one damn ability that ruins it for everyone. It also suffers from a 5m range penalty, making the spec useless in many fights.

    Warrior has other souls that are slowly becoming more viable and they should be the main damage dealers, not some stupid hybrids that use aoe and/or healing souls. Even 61wl with PB+Stand and Deliver does more dps than many of the other specs.

    As mentioned above, punishing blows damage bonus should be reduced or at the very least only affect champion abilities. Yes it breaks some of your favourite hybrids but having more options is better than stupid gimmick specs.
    I have never personally been a big fan of the spec. As you say there are several bosses it flat out doesn't work on and big constant cleave is a bit much. Saying this both Shaman and Nightblade are capable of this as well. It feeds into what I have said previously though. I think all specs should be able to do some variable amounts of aoe but without losing much in the way of single target when doing so is a bit silly. If RiftBlade and Warlord were viable, perhaps people wouldn't miss Overlord much anyway.

    Overlord is also perhaps how it is because all of our other souls/specs were pretty dead (and still are) at the time and that was all we had.

    I hope this weeks hotfix sees some buffs or at least some of the stacking groups reverted on LIVE. We really can't leave it like this as we are essentially where we were before they implemented this patch but less viable specs across all classes.

    Please Note I am talking about LIVE (I pretty much always am as I only play LIVE)
    Last edited by Balidin; 05-21-2018 at 07:38 AM.

  9. #39
    RIFT Guide Writer Waseem2k's Avatar
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    WL with champ/warchanter was and still is pulling higher than overlord. The only reason for going 61 WL was for A quick death procs and 41 points for everything is a weapon, other than that it relies on Punishing Blow to buff stand and deliver and wave of steel. Even though we have all these skills that buff piercing thrust, wave of steel is still better.

    Both overlord and warlord rely on punishing blow for them to work and both suffer from the 5m range which should have been fixed years ago and we're still having to deal with it.
    Rompalstomp - Raid Lead / Warrior Lead "Nefarious"

  10. #40
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    I would love for Warlord to work as a dps soul using the skills it is supposed to rather than either supporting chantion specs or using aoe for ST. Anyway as Waseem says above Warchanter is still our top dps by a margin. Tried it last night in BoS and yeah...

    Warrior hasn't really changed at all and is still in a bad state outside of the broken healing spec for dps.
    Last edited by Balidin; 05-22-2018 at 03:01 AM.

  11. #41
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    Looks like we are on our own again to do what we can to work around yet another botched attempt . I am sure we will be stuck with things as they are for quite some time . On a positive note ........my Patron recently expired and now at least I will have no dilemma over whether or not to renew .

  12. #42
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    see next post ...

  13. #43
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    I wrote a Python script that compares the single target damge of all classes after the hotfix. As database I use Prancingturtle and read all relevant data with the script. Unlike Prancingturtle, I don't calculate the single target damage over the entire duration of the fight but only from the first hit on a boss until he is killed, so you get more realistic ST DPS values for Commander Isiel and Titan X. You can see the result here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1449394167

    I would like to note that the database is still too small and the ST ranking will probably change with further data. I will try to keep the spreadsheet as up-to-date as possible.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamul View Post
    I wrote a Python script that compares the single target damge of all classes after the hotfix. As database I use Prancingturtle and read all relevant data with the script. Unlike Prancingturtle, I don't calculate the single target damage over the entire duration of the fight but only from the first hit on a boss until he is killed, so you get more realistic ST DPS values for Commander Isiel and Titan X. You can see the result here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1449394167

    I would like to note that the database is still too small and the ST ranking will probably change with further data. I will try to keep the spreadsheet as up-to-date as possible.
    Thx for having the effort to do so. I also like to address to everyone that like Bamu said , the data from PT is WAY, WAY WAY too small for presentation right now. Leading to some obscure results in the spreadsheet like these:

    OFFICIAL: Soul Patch Feedback!-cleric-png.jpg
    OFFICIAL: Soul Patch Feedback!-mage-png.jpg

    as you can see some of them are clearly tanks(clerics) or chons

    So if you want to help contributing plz upload to PT regularly
    Cileriqao@Greybriar <Kairos>

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamul View Post
    I wrote a Python script that compares the single target damge of all classes after the hotfix. As database I use Prancingturtle and read all relevant data with the script. Unlike Prancingturtle, I don't calculate the single target damage over the entire duration of the fight but only from the first hit on a boss until he is killed, so you get more realistic ST DPS values for Commander Isiel and Titan X. You can see the result here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1449394167

    I would like to note that the database is still too small and the ST ranking will probably change with further data. I will try to keep the spreadsheet as up-to-date as possible.
    Thanks you for your hard work.

    It seems like rogue is still rather melee dependent as rogue really only topped ST on Azranel and only 1 rogue that did significantly more dps than the #2 rogue on Azranel, and the said #2 rogue is also beaten by a primalist as well as a mage.

    With so many great players probably went to play Prime exclusively, the sample size might be too small, but for science using your data sheet it's fair to say that

    1. Rogue when allowed to melee will be top ST dps (Azranel)

    2. Primalist and Mage are roughly equal and do top ST dps at any range (Titan X)

    3. Without the few clerics that I approve being up there it's hard to gauge exactly how good/bad cleric is at but it's safe to say they are slightly behind rogues primalist and mages.

    4. Your warrior column are primalist erroneously relisted (come on man why the warrior hate ).

    5. It's safe to say warrior is still pretty rekt and are used for a quasi-icar on steroids heal/dps hybrid cheese.

    That sound about right?
    If rogue's ST dps is as good as we think, I think it's time to nerf some of their cleaves... and maybe give them a fully ranged spec that can compete with primalist and mages without having to exploit with rapid fire shot stacking by multiple marksman...
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 05-28-2018 at 09:53 AM.

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