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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: OFFICIAL: Soul Patch Feedback!

  1. #16
    Sword of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    I may have to retract my previous post, as from what I've read and heard from Warriors this patch had nothing to do with Live. Dmg souls are still bad and Warchanter is doing actually MORE! So rather than decreasing the healing damage and correcting dmg souls, they've done the reverse. I said I didn't mind a tilt in balance in my previous post, but I didn't say it was ok not to fix the only thing we wanted fixing..

    "For the past several months, the team has been focusing on one of your biggest requests: souls, callings, and in the case of Prime, global balance work."

    Does this careful wording suggest that none of the balance changes were intended for Live? Or does she mean Prime also needs balancing to PvE content too? I can't see any changes to PvE health pools etc. so I assume the first. The balance changes on Prime and Live seem to be exactly the same, but Prime also get's a scalar dmg quantity added to it afterwards. With this in mind I would have thought balance first on Live then scalar it down for Prime, but it seems they have completely ignored Live, done balance changes to Prime, made it affect live, and now make live worse.

    I really hope this is not the case, as why would Brasse be asking us our opinion on balance changes when they were never intended to fix anything on Live anyway?
    Last edited by Refuge; 05-17-2018 at 07:42 AM.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  2. #17
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    They had to fix the combat calculations/buff stacking first and see where things sit. Now that thats done, they can make more meaningful balance changes overall for prime and live. We didn't get to test any of these at level 70 unfortunately to give feedback on balance at that level.

  3. #18
    Sword of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkhyeyeon View Post
    They had to fix the combat calculations/buff stacking first and see where things sit. Now that thats done, they can make more meaningful balance changes overall for prime and live. We didn't get to test any of these at level 70 unfortunately to give feedback on balance at that level.
    If this is the case they haven't made it clear in the patch notes, they make it sound like this IS the balance patch. There was no word on "we're still working on it"
    Fwob - Zaviel

  4. #19
    Rift Disciple
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    Thumbs down

    After some parsing most primalists will see about 300-350k DPS loss, some more exotic builds only loose 150k dps but the're still Meh

  5. #20
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    It seems that many classes do less damage after the patch. Primalist it probably most affected.

    Some Mage specs like 61 Pyro/11 Warlock/4 Ele, 61 Warlock/13 Dominator/2 Arb or 61 Necro/11 Warlock/4 Ele seem to do noticeably less damage as before the patch.

    58 Ele/Pyro and 61 Harb/9 Chloro/6 Arb don't seem to be affected and do about as much damage as before the patch.

  6. #21
    Sword of Telara
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    I have been messing about with some specs this evening and did some parses for the 4 souls that were most notably changed in the warrior class:



    As you can see, only Paragon can get above 900k dps. Reaver and Riftblade seems slightly higher than before, perhaps 50k dps but Warlord seems to have gone down by about that much.

    With Nightblades, Shamans, Elementalists and maybe still some Primalist spec? still doing 1.1-1.2million on a dummy then we are still not in contention at all.

    The buff stacking group changes appear to be part of the reason why the souls didnt increase a lot other than Paragon. "Everything is a Weapon" legendary in Warlord now makes builders hit less than before even with themselves being buffed. Seargeants order legendary noticbly doesn't increase by as much and the change to the precision strikes Mastery appears to be part of this issue as well.

    I am not really sure whats going on with Riftblade. It is still too low. You might want to look at all the low level legendaries across all warrioer souls along with the 3 auto attack interacting ones on Riftblade. They are a bit clunky to be honest. Using builders from other souls which have no other real interaction in the soul is just an extra button to click that feels out of place.

    We did put some changes into live though which is always a good thing. We should have been allowed to test those changes before hand but there we go.
    Last edited by Balidin; 05-17-2018 at 01:41 PM.

  7. #22
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamul View Post
    It seems that many classes do less damage after the patch. Primalist it probably most affected.

    Some Mage specs like 61 Pyro/11 Warlock/4 Ele, 61 Warlock/13 Dominator/2 Arb or 61 Necro/11 Warlock/4 Ele seem to do noticeably less damage as before the patch.

    58 Ele/Pyro and 61 Harb/9 Chloro/6 Arb don't seem to be affected and do about as much damage as before the patch.
    That's my experience with the changes as well.
    Did a lot of parsing and what I'm seeing compared to my normal dps numbers is:

    Pyro- went down 220k
    Warlock - went down 250k
    Necro - went down 50k
    58Ele/18Pyro/2warlock (standard ele) - seemed roughly the same
    44ele/21pyro/11warlock 'CinderEle' - went down 300k (this one makes me sad was doing better then normal ele and slightly more fun to play as well, that's no longer the case)
    Harb/chloro/arb - no change
    Chloro/chon - no change in Dps for me still sitting around 620k
    61chon/11warlock/4ele - pulling about 200k less then normal

    Basically all the specs that used 11 warlock went down, so the buff stacking change they made to Warlock – Neddra’s Grasp (Legendary) hit those builds pretty hard.

    Would be nice if we didn't get a very vague list of 'these buff stacking groups changed'

    It's pretty sad that they didn't do any public testing of these changes before pushing them to the Live servers for level 70. I would have gladly gotten on PTS to test for Live, being forced to test changes on Live servers though is slightly upsetting.
    Last edited by Ishimui; 05-17-2018 at 02:43 PM.

  8. #23
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    Yeah Pyrolock running down about 150 - 200K from what I have seen parsing . Has been difficult for some guilds running BOS to meet the DPS checks as it was , now it will be impossible for many groups . THANKS TRION !!!

  9. #24
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    Full disclosure: I've done BoS so many times now that I barely pay attention during it, but here's some observations from last night.


    The 21 PL/18 Vulc spec seemed a bit lower. Still good, but not as good as before. Other primalists reported a dps loss, though they seemed to think it was more drastic.


    Marksman actually seemed a bit higher, and I didn't notice anything weird in cleric/mage parses. But again, I haven't looked that closely at dps in a while.
    Nivv <Stack More Crit>
    Nivva <Stack More Dodge>
    5th best primalist NA (also 5th worst)

  10. #25
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    Tried differents specs on my primalist , we lost a lot of damage that's for sure.

    Here is some screen of the specs:
    https://imgur.com/a/jWRF3O8

    All parse was done by using only specs buff and primalist weapon buff , no stones no vials no feast.
    The ones using lashing wing from dervish got a buff , around 50-70k more (31dervish , the hybrid support spec, the hybrid dervish/preda and a 21dervish/9maelstrom/9vulcanist i tried)
    The specs using at minimum 21 primal lord got a nerf , around 200 to 300k less dps.
    Maelstrom itself is still really low on dps, was expecting more , it's a fun spec to play.

    Overall primalist got a nerf from all the changes, i was expecting this, but not that hard.
    For raids , still a good dd, now it's more at the damage lvl of others callings.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishimui View Post
    That's my experience with the changes as well.
    Did a lot of parsing and what I'm seeing compared to my normal dps numbers is:

    Pyro- went down 220k
    Warlock - went down 250k
    Necro - went down 50k
    58Ele/18Pyro/2warlock (standard ele) - seemed roughly the same
    44ele/21pyro/11warlock 'CinderEle' - went down 300k (this one makes me sad was doing better then normal ele and slightly more fun to play as well, that's no longer the case)
    Harb/chloro/arb - no change
    Chloro/chon - no change in Dps for me still sitting around 620k
    61chon/11warlock/4ele - pulling about 200k less then normal

    Basically all the specs that used 11 warlock went down, so the buff stacking change they made to Warlock – Neddra’s Grasp (Legendary) hit those builds pretty hard.

    Would be nice if we didn't get a very vague list of 'these buff stacking groups changed'

    It's pretty sad that they didn't do any public testing of these changes before pushing them to the Live servers for level 70. I would have gladly gotten on PTS to test for Live, being forced to test changes on Live servers though is slightly upsetting.
    Seems that the good balance within the mage souls was destroyed by the patch. Probably it is not worthwhile to play anything else than 58 Ele now. But I am still glad that Trion finally dares to try something new after such a long time. I hope this revision how buffs are calculated will help Trion better adapt souls in the future.

    I still see it critically that specs with quite good passive cleave are the top single target DPS specs and do more st damage than specs without passive cleave. The passive cleave of rogues and mages should be drastically reduced to better balance the top single target specs of each class.

    Good AoE damage should always lead to significantly less single target damage for a healthy gameplay!

  12. #27
    Shadowlander
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    Default patch nerfs

    so we all now know, its a nerf patch, simple as that, not a stacking buffs patch, but a nerf patch to many souls.
    balance side, ok, understandable.
    bos side? those who are working on progressing through it, pack up return to tier 1, you just took a dps hit on your group so high, you can not get through the boss's no more with your current gear.
    so if you relied on primalists, rouges, for dps, time to send them back, bring up a new main, crank it out, and restart, wait, get the eternal on it, fragments, and run off 400 raid rifts to get the dps up .
    oh don't forget, you need to run, or spend how much to get tower fragments or just plain and simple buy the coffers to get bis planar fragments.
    yeap, all those smaller guilds, just got a huge poke in the eye, and a set back that will mean, no bos for you.
    stop trying, you wont do it.

  13.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #28
    Director of Community Relations TrionBrasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bctrainers View Post
    Not everyone is going to, let alone knows to flock to social or these forums to get a status update. A logical location for status information would be direct on the patch/glyph client.
    That would be amazing. I know it would take significant work, but an MOTD option on the client would be of great value. I am taking this back to the platform team to look into.

    It is true, everyone has a different preferred communication channel. Some folks like forums, others are on Twitter, yet more on Facebook, and some never leave Steam... I post like a madman trying to get messages up on all, but it's more time consuming than one expects.
    Thank you to fansites and fellow players who helped keep the communication going!

    Side note: we're adding a bonus XP weekend for everyone to make up for lost time - it will fall over the Memorial Day weekend (US) and I'll post effective dates as soon as I have them. That will be NEXT weekend, not this week. =)
    Brasse

  14.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #29
    Director of Community Relations TrionBrasse's Avatar
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    In response to some other points, the soul changes were definitely intended for Live and Prime in equal measure. The pain points were just more apparent on Prime.

    Soul evolution is always underway, and yes, Mages need more help, Clerics need attention. Sabs are just evil and will be... what... ok, ok, put the knife down!

    We continue to collect data (quantitative) and your feeback (qualitative) and work will never end on soul adjustments. Thank you all for taking part in the process!
    Brasse

  15. #30
    Sword of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    In response to some other points, the soul changes were definitely intended for Live and Prime in equal measure. The pain points were just more apparent on Prime.
    How though? The devil is in the detail. I don't think we've witnessed any attempt at balancing live here at all, as there clearly were 0 impactful improvements. I see you mentioned on the forums the latest balance patch was to give a good foundation for further balance changes, which is fine, but I think this is very much bending the truth. The reality I think it more like this:

    Balance Prime -> Same build as Live -> Make adjustments to legendaries and weapon later on to fix the differences

    When I would have thought the best option would be:

    Balance Live -> Same build as Prime -> Add a bypass scaling to certain abilities to balance Prime


    You mentioned on stream you want to bring in new players, so by definition Prime is more important. I think we all get that, you're a business after all, but for it to have such an inhibiting impact on Live (not just content, but actual balance changes) is not so cool.
    Last edited by Refuge; 05-19-2018 at 06:21 AM.
    Fwob - Zaviel

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