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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: 4/13/2018 Live Stream Notes

  1. #16
    Plane Walker
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    You should not focus on balancing a class one at a time. By balancing across similar souls in all classes it makes it easier to achieve class balance and test each class for practicality in the next raid. Quality assurance and control should be a big deal to the dev team by now as this reassures the devs and players that there will not be enormous time gaps in changes between classes. Players of other classes will not have severe handicaps placed on them for being ignored until its their turn.

    When you have a class that is under or over tuned (going into a raid especially) it creates a meta and an ideology going forward. Since Dungeons and PvP are seen as the test bed for class balance as well as raid testing 99% of people assume that at the very least you should know the major problems as there is 1000s upon 1000s of data being accumulated that can be used to determine the practical state of classes in current or future content. If you release a raid (essentially the end game for many players) before all that is somewhat tested and predetermined or fixed for practical balance you should expect more cumulative buyer's remorse.

    Think about it this way. These players that are playing an OP class will see it as the way their class is suppose to be because 99% of players will assume you have done all the testing and made most of the changes. Any attempt to normalize or bring them down so others can rise because its "their turn" will cause a backlash the more you wait.

    You are actually creating this audience and the reduction in your playerbase over time like melding. It is by reducing your population and your subscriber base to having that one class being the most played. If class X is untouchable by any of the other classes in several roles then 2 things are likely to happen. One, players of other classes will stop playing Rift or two, they will change to class X. You are giving the choice between choosing a class at no cost other than time from each other. You can choose the best or the worse.

    Once you make [for example] 80% your player base class X (keep in mind by reducing the population and your income over time as result), what do you think will happen if you attempt to balance the class X then? That is a larger shock wave you will create onto your now melded community.

    You then have to ask yourself new questions. Should we balance classes or should we please the 80% of players who play that one class and keep them overtuned? Is it even worth wasting time to make the other 20% happy at the cost of maybe upsetting the 80%? By taking too long to balance classes you created this meta and ideal in peoples heads that this class suppose to behave like this. Frankly, speaking, they got you by the....and the game becomes a free fall.

    As for the the underpowered class, it will be picked less for participation because they are viewed as a handicap. You may force players who want to play your game to quit even if they really want to play because they accidentally chose the wrong class that is viewed as a handicap for the team. Think of it as a "last kid to be picked" scenario and you will get the picture, hopefully. Please, don't ignore other classes especially in practicality when balancing in raids and think about the bigger picture.

    There is certainly a sort of buyer's remorse for some players setting in over time. Once raids hit and things are still wildly out of sorts this will just get amplified further because now you are dealing with the PvE'ers strictly and there is a ton of them who are still enjoying and counting on this part of the game to be fixed before raids. I know class balance is a difficult subject. I just hope that you develop a system that is beneficial to all your players when you try to tackle it.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 04-14-2018 at 01:51 AM.

  2. #17
    Ascendant simpa1988's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    Thanks you!
    Τhats the communication we want.


    Maybe the top secret in Amary whiteboard is the new zone ?
    Didn't see it mentioned on the answers
    Last edited by simpa1988; 04-14-2018 at 01:28 AM.

  3. #18
    Champion Sahtiaro's Avatar
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    MORE WARRIOR CHANGES!

    I APPROVE THAT!
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Sahtiar the Green Knight - Khalim'na
    ------------------------------------------------------

  4. #19
    Plane Touched Cenderze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpa1988 View Post
    Watched the stream again.
    They clearly said that a new zone is coming. Thats awesome news
    New zone will drop Released Intel. With those you can buy Comic Triggers which requires 40k Released Intel which youll need to upgrade crafted helm, crafted ranged, upgrade new trinket. For 5k Released Intel you can buy Another trigger which is used to upgrade essences from new RR, and to upgrade all gear dropped from IGSB (or rather bought from store, drops will require too many Calm Cells to upgrade).

    Well Im actually kind of excited! Thought IGSB was the only thing planned PvE wise this year and that it would be a T2 raid in which people whove cleared BoS for a while would only need datagrams and storm cells from.
    Garash@Zaviel
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    (3/3 BoS)

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    You should not focus on balancing a class one at a time. By balancing across similar souls in all classes it makes it easier to achieve class balance and test each class for practicality in the next raid. Quality assurance and control should be a big deal to the dev team by now as this reassures the devs and players that there will not be enormous time gaps in changes between classes. Players of other classes will not have severe handicaps placed on them for being ignored until its their turn.

    When you have a class that is under or over tuned (going into a raid especially) it creates a meta and an ideology going forward. Since Dungeons and PvP are seen as the test bed for class balance as well as raid testing 99% of people assume that at the very least you should know the major problems as there is 1000s upon 1000s of data being accumulated that can be used to determine the practical state of classes in current or future content. If you release a raid (essentially the end game for many players) before all that is somewhat tested and predetermined or fixed for practical balance you should expect more cumulative buyer's remorse.

    Think about it this way. These players that are playing an OP class will see it as the way their class is suppose to be because 99% of players will assume you have done all the testing and made most of the changes. Any attempt to normalize or bring them down so others can rise because its "their turn" will cause a backlash the more you wait.

    You are actually creating this audience and the reduction in your playerbase over time like melding. It is by reducing your population and your subscriber base to having that one class being the most played. If class X is untouchable by any of the other classes in several roles then 2 things are likely to happen. One, players of other classes will stop playing Rift or two, they will change to class X. You are giving the choice between choosing a class at no cost other than time from each other. You can choose the best or the worse.

    Once you make [for example] 80% your player base class X (keep in mind by reducing the population and your income over time as result), what do you think will happen if you attempt to balance the class X then? That is a larger shock wave you will create onto your now melded community.

    You then have to ask yourself new questions. Should we balance classes or should we please the 80% of players who play that one class and keep them overtuned? Is it even worth wasting time to make the other 20% happy at the cost of maybe upsetting the 80%? By taking too long to balance classes you created this meta and ideal in peoples heads that this class suppose to behave like this. Frankly, speaking, they got you by the....and the game becomes a free fall.

    As for the the underpowered class, it will be picked less for participation because they are viewed as a handicap. You may force players who want to play your game to quit even if they really want to play because they accidentally chose the wrong class that is viewed as a handicap for the team. Think of it as a "last kid to be picked" scenario and you will get the picture, hopefully. Please, don't ignore other classes especially in practicality when balancing in raids and think about the bigger picture.

    There is certainly a sort of buyer's remorse for some players setting in over time. Once raids hit and things are still wildly out of sorts this will just get amplified further because now you are dealing with the PvE'ers strictly and there is a ton of them who are still enjoying and counting on this part of the game to be fixed before raids. I know class balance is a difficult subject. I just hope that you develop a system that is beneficial to all your players when you try to tackle it.
    Simply put, class differential -/+ 10% is under no circumstances "rocket science" for a qualified programmer...
    Banned

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post
    Prime


    Accelerated Progression - Their initial expecations of content releases have been changed and they expect the server to go on for much longer than a year and thus the progression will likely be slowed down and more based upon player engagement and participation.
    Good lord why are you slowing it down even further. People are already leaving Prime because of lack of content.

    If you are going to tailor the game to casuals and the stragglers, they will be the only ones left playing. And even those want to play with the hardcore players, to look up to raids and achievements when they eventually get there. Without hardcore raiders, the casuals will also quit. No one wants to play with only casuals and stragglers, not even themselves.

    Tldr: Keep content in for raiders and hardcore players = everyone stays. Tailor content to casuals = dead game.

  7. #22
    Rift Disciple Flossil's Avatar
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    Is there a list of the prime challenge winners?

    My signature isn't centered.

  8. #23
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    So the notes from the live stream seem to indicate that.

    Prime will last longer and content will be released much slower than what was advertised by the team.

    Class changes will happen in small batches on prime and not much on live. The reason for this is because even though prime was supposed to be a copy of live (since they lacked the old system) it is easier to fix on prime. Sorry live. Yay Prime but even then these will be really slow.

    No new souls anytime soon because they are working very hard or at least someone is working on small balance changes to be implemented on prime that might eventually end up on live.

    GSB is coming out! Well it is coming out on Prime and not live anytime soon. All you folks who have been starved for content on live since 2016 well sorry about that.

    Fragments were supposed to be fixed for a year or so ago but it never happened. It wont happen anytime soon.

    Guild updates were also supposed to be a thing, but they will not be happening anytime soon since there is important class balancing to be done.

    Live is not supposed to get much love - sadly but not surprisingly.

    I mean it just goes on and on.

    I guess it was silly to expect different, but once again it is the same old same old.
    Sutra@faeblight
    Mage since 2011
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  9. #24
    Plane Touched Samhayn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlayerNumber2 View Post
    Here we go again






    All focused on prime. No, prime wont take away from live.
    just want to point out during the live stream it was said that the code changes for skills on prime are being used as a test and if succesful will be ported to live, so well i play on prime and enjoy it i am paying to test changes that will be ported to live. your welcome.
    Something witty goes here.

  10. #25
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    If the devs adjust without evaluating practical use it would be as I predicted about 2 weeks before prime.. where rogue and warrior will both be over tuned going into the next raid. Healing and dps throughput are just too high in comparison to the other classes especially if they consider to nerf MA even further. Keep in mind that warrior healers are still doing good dps as healers, Its aoe healing can bring shielding as well, and they have the best primary support along with the best secondary tank. From a mechanical perspective warriors are easier to play because they are less restricted with their toggles and lower cds and very practical burst. Tie that in with balancing dps on a dummy with no mechanical challenges and a cherry picked time that shows their lower dips are equal to the other classes highest peaks and you will have something like how tempest came out in LFR and IROTP in live.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 04-16-2018 at 12:30 PM.

  11. #26
    Soulwalker Drakken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samhayn View Post
    just want to point out during the live stream it was said that the code changes for skills on prime are being used as a test and if succesful will be ported to live, so well i play on prime and enjoy it i am paying to test changes that will be ported to live. your welcome.
    I am pretty sure I am not the only one that plays Live and pays for patron every month so ya get over yourself;

  12. #27
    Shield of Telara Aeryle's Avatar
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    If there is no expansion this year, i will be very disapointed.

    Starfall prophecy is a good expansion but no engouht content was published in the last few months. (4.3 was poor in content and was live for many months now... and no signs of 4.4)

    It's time to give some love to live servers and a new expansion would be a very great way to introduce new content.
    Guild: La main occulte on Brisesol.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samhayn View Post
    just want to point out during the live stream it was said that the code changes for skills on prime are being used as a test and if succesful will be ported to live, so well i play on prime and enjoy it i am paying to test changes that will be ported to live. your welcome.
    I feel special. you came back (havent posted since 2015) to snipe me instead of complaining about pvp or warrior balance.

    P.S. How long do you think they will need to test this before use on live? Pigs may fly first with trion's history. Look at the crafting reagents issue. simple im sure, but still broken.

    Trion really really needs to get QA back (as it seems they left and no ones filled it)

  14. #29
    Ascendant simpa1988's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeryle View Post
    If there is no expansion this year, i will be very disapointed.

    Starfall prophecy is a good expansion but no engouht content was published in the last few months. (4.3 was poor in content and was live for many months now... and no signs of 4.4)

    It's time to give some love to live servers and a new expansion would be a very great way to introduce new content.
    Not a new expansion , but they hinted about a new zone and 3 big updates on live this year.
    Live need asap new content

  15. #30
    Shield of Telara Aeryle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpa1988 View Post
    Not a new expansion , but they hinted about a new zone and 3 big updates on live this year.
    Live need asap new content
    A new zone is a cool thingí but is not the best thing for now. Not after a year without live content.
    I donít understand why trion donít already push a real 4.4 on live (not a fake one with no new content).
    What was developped during the last 6months?????
    Guild: La main occulte on Brisesol.
    French translator of Tinker Tools.
    Owner of the Telara Rail Road: 14 Train Station are currently open to visit

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