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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Rift Store: Lets help improve it!

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    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    Default Rift Store: Lets help improve it!

    I want to preface this post by saying that it's not my intention to defend the store or any of Trions decisions in regard to it, but only explain where it started and where it has gone since it's introduction. A lot of people talk about it on their streams, make off handed posts about it and call it trash, but don't actually suggest how to make it better. The fact of the matter is that the store had a ton of work, time and resources put into it. For that reason alone, it's probably never going to ever be gone from the game and people, returning or otherwise, should get used to that. We should instead find and suggest ways to improve it with a middle ground between F2P and those who don't want to feel forced into spending real money.

    There tends to be a few key issues that people have with the store. I'll attempt to go through and explain what those are.

    Vial Boosts

    Gear

    Lockboxes

    Vial Boosts
    One of the most common things I see people talk about in regard to P2W are vials which I always found a bit odd. Almost everything on the store has and is still there for your own personal convenience if you choose to use them. Boosts are one of them. Many people these days simply don't have enough time to level, grind out marks or can't grind dungeons over the span of a few days if they only have 1 to play. Many people also don't like the leveling process and while it's not necessarily bad in Rift specifically, It's more so that people have just done it so many times over the years that it's just not fun and they would rather get it done and over with in order to play what they enjoy at max level. Experience boosts are a nice convenience to get through that. A lot of people seem to think that this was something exclusively introduced with the Rift store, but the vials have always been around since vanilla. They were apart of the original loyalty system which was unlocked by your time played in game as you'll see down below. You may be thinking “well, you could get those for free”, but most of the people who continued playing the game since Storm Legion have also been given many of the new vials for free over the years. Most long time players also get these vials upon every new character creation.



    Vials have never give you any kind of advantage over anyone as much as some like to believe that. It simply helps speed up certain activities in order to be done and over with them. The game (like any mmo) has always been more about personal skill vs how fast you grind or level. Someone who reaches the level cap before you or gears up faster than you doesn't mean they're going to do better than you or kill you faster in PvP in the case of PvP boosts, if they're still a bad player and even if it's a good player getting to those points before you, the chances are they were still going to do and be better than you anyway. That's just the nature of being good at what you do.



    Another complaint I hear is that people seem to think there's some kind of conspiracy that they make the grinds harder in order to sell more boosts. I can understand why people might feel that way, but it's a bit far-fetched as each new level cap that was introduced was/is about as time consuming as any of the old level brackets were prior to patron bonuses and vials, but again, people use both in order to make them that much faster.


    Gear
    Gear has always been a hot topic in terms of P2W. Gear in Rift has been purchasable, but never at the top level. Nightmare Tide is the best example of this. The credit prices were absurdly high for bundles as a sort of deterrent that if you were really that lazy, that it was going to cost you an arm and a leg. The highest Tier and BIS gear still required you to raid in order to get it. Gear would be unlocked for a reduced mark cost and available for credits, both individually and as bundles once a new Tier arrived. They unfortunately haven't kept up on this in the current expansion.



    Note: I don't have any screenshots of the store from Nightmare Tide so while credit options are available for NT T3 gear on the store right now, they weren't back then. Hence the edit. That being said you can look at Tier 2 gear which you also can't buy for credits nor is that gear best in slot.

    Lockboxes
    This one doesn't need an explanation really and it's probably the biggest point of contention like they are in most games. The big part of lockboxes is that they're completely RNG on what you get. Throwing in mounts as incentive to get you to buy more boxes if you don't get it the first time is pretty shady and something no one likes. Some cosmetics were also thrown in, but the chances of getting either (mounts especially) are so astronomically low that you're usually better off just waiting for other people that are willing to spend the money on them to get it and then buy it from them. An interesting look into it here: A Glimpse into RIFT Lockbox Drops

    The other thing that walks that really fine line is that the current lockboxes drop T2 marks and while the vendor gear isn't technically BIS, that's certainly going way too close and something that they need to rid themselves of.

    That being said, they have attempted to do to at least genuinely try to add some improvements in Prophecy of Ahnket by adding in some fail safes so that if you chose to spend a lot of money to get a mount, you would at least be able to eventually get it with enough lockboxes via Prize tickets which they introduced with this change. This is by no means perfect and in all honesty lockboxes of course shouldn't be in the game at all. I think not placing the Greenata mount in a lockbox for this years carnival is a step in the right direction and away from lockboxes in general. Another thing they added was a system that gives you 1 of each item quality ranging from cosmetics, service items, boots, open world currency and of course the chance at whatever mount is contained within. This is also used for dimension boxes.

    It's important to note that one of the incentives for patrons is that they get daily and weekly gifts whereas non patrons don't. The weekly gifts usually contain loyalty, artifacts and always 1 (sometimes 2) lockboxes. Usually whatever the most recent season or promotional lockbox was. In this case it's still the Autumn Harvest levitation.



    While the game has certainly walked on top of that fine line, none of the aforementioned things have ever crossed it (up until recently which I'll get to separately) and despite peoples emotional reactions to it, they don't give you any real advantage over someone who chooses not to use or buy any of these things. There are a lot of people who buy all of these things and pay for patron that don't spend a single dime either because they don't want to or can't afford to and while I was always neutral about the store when it first changed, I do think it's better in the long run for a healthier population that allows people to choose how they play.
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 03-28-2018 at 07:07 AM.

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    Prophecy of Ahnket


    Now here's where the store actually starts turning into the thing that people thought it was back in the previous 2 expansions. I'll try not to go off into too many tangents and please refrain from doing so yourself. There was a good and constructive thread created for this expansions changes and current systems in general here: http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...ggestions.html

    Individual Reward Charges
    Much like you will see on prime, these were introduced with the current expansion and the personal looting system that came along with it. This was the beginning of a lot of the lockbox type RNG being implemented into everyday PvE related activities. Personal loot does not guarantee that you will get loot every time you spend a charge, even though patrons get 10 free charges every reset on top of people who are buying IRC packs from the store. One of the developers released a spreadsheet that that people who weren't getting anything were in the vast minority vs the people who were, but that doesn't really satisfy people as they're spending real money for these charges (similar to lockboxes) regardless if it's through patron and or the store and not getting what they need.

    Grind Machine
    Grinding has always been a basic function of any mmo, but the amount of RNG they have added in with this expansion along with enormous amounts of grinding starts to make even long time players such as myself question if they really are pushing purchases of boosts in order to speed those grinds up as they are painful to do even with boosts. A lot of that can be chalked up to them stalling for time in order to work on changes which is where there's so much frustration with prime as a lot of content and updates have been delayed while they were working on it to the point where we've had no balance changes for an entire year now.

    Captured Intel
    Captured Intel was introduced along side Vostigar Peaks and would allow you to purchase the new raid rift lures, some T1 equivalent gear, new BIS trinkets and eventually crates that would give you a random suffixed T2 quality earring, ring and neck. The amount you needed to grind was pretty significant and back then you could only get intel from the dailies, VP only zone events and some from the raid rifts. It wasn't until later when they added it to LFR Tartaric Depths and the other celestial zone events. During the holidays, someone made the decision to put out several different packs, one of them was the Dragon's Hoard Pack http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...oard-pack.html and this is where the store actually/finally crossed that P2W line as the hoard pack gave you crates of captured intel and then you could also buy the crates individually. They put a lockout on how many crates you could buy and the hoard pack was a 1 time purchase, but since you could literally buy open world currency and buy the T2 quality (which was/is BIS for accessories), that meant you could buy your way to the best gear. There was certainly a ton of backlash and rightfully so. They swiftly took the crates off of the store and said the Dragon hoard pack would stay, but would be taken off after December. That still hasn't happened.

    There was also another $100 pack that would give you a random mount which caused even further backlack. To the point where Scott Hartsman, the CEO of Trion issued an apology. Whether you personally feel that was enough is up to you. https://www.reddit.com/r/Rift/commen...s_mount_crate/

    Moving Forward
    All of that being said, the store at least up until that point was never P2W or at least as bad as people seem to think it is. It's not by any means perfect and that's the main point of this post. We've heard time and again that the store helps not only fund the game, but also pay it's employees working on it and we all understand that, but I think more focus should be put into improving the store and improving / providing more incentives to buy into patron in order to alleviate the more aggressive pushes for microtransactions.
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 03-28-2018 at 06:53 AM. Reason: Had to split up the larger post.

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    Rift Prime and Live – Improvements


    This is something I have discussed before here: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-prim...ml#post5342483

    This is going to primarily focus on fixing and improving the store specifically since that seems too be the main point of contention that people take issue with when it comes to Prime and Live. I don't feel that a permanent Prime server addresses anything in the long run and the focus should be on improving the game as a whole, not splitting the community and that's exactly what is and will happen. The focus needs to be put on giving incentive to people to pay for subscriptions without pushing out any casual and or F2P people which make up a bulk of the population of Rift in the way that B2P did in Propheecy of Ahnket. Prime should obviously still be one of those incentives, but it should primarily be an actual challenge server similar to Diablo 3 seasons where it's released during regular content burns so that people have something to do in between for a few months which keeps everyone engaged and continuously playing the game.

    The Store and Affinity



    This suggestion isn't something new and I can't take credit for it myself. I believe it was Artewig (correct me if I'm wrong if anyone else remembers) who originally made this similar suggestion a while back and I felt it was a good idea. The store had tons of work put into it so it's never going away and will always in in the game in some way, shape or form. Affinity was introduced during Nightmare Tide. It's a currency that only patrons can accumulate on a daily basis with a maximum of 8 points. Five for logging in and 1 point for every hour after that, spent in game. Much like prize tickets, it has its own section the store that allows you to buy things like mounts (unfortunately not BoA) along with some dimension items and wardrobe. The idea was to give everything on the store 3 options. Credits, Platinum and Affinity.


    Note: This is a clearly fictitious example so just ignore the the numbers.

    At this point you're already paying for patron and should be allowed to spend those points on anything on the store. Perhaps with the exception of some premium mounts and wardrobes, but this allows you to freely buy what you want from the store without being forced to pay for higher prices with real money. The only catch is that you would need to save up for it. Platinum is the third option because they have attempted to put in platinum sinks as people have complained in the past that there's nothing to spend it on, but that has only resulted in some negative affects, such a Planar Fragments. The issue with putting in just one type of plat sink is that the people sitting on enormous mountains of platinum are in the minority and if they don't want to spend it, they won't. At least this way, there's a lot more options for those people. It would be up to Trion along with peoples suggestions taken into consideration as to what should be giftable with each currency or if that would remain credits only. There are some other areas of the store they would need to work on.

    Vial Boosts – You don't need to get rid of these, but I do think they shouldn't be usable at the start of a new expansion. That was something I had felt strongly about when I found out you could use them for Nightmare Tide. Reduce the Price on them individually and use the current prices for “batches” of boosts so that it's more worth the money.

    Wardrobe Bundles – Carry over what you're doing on Prime with wardrobe bundles. Take a lot of the open world appearance bundles and throw them into dungeons, open worlds and raids. Take most of them off of the store in turn and only keep premium and more relevant ones up there that you can't get anymore or were never introduced. This will alleviate a lot of the bloat on th at section.

    Mounts – Another thing to carry over from Prime. Populate some older mounts into dungeons and raids. Even if they're not just actual drops, put them into raid achievements to give said raids more longevity when people go back and do them. Similar to River of Souls and Tyrant's Forge. Please also make all mounts bound to account. It's pretty frustrating that they haven't been updated after all of this time.

    Souls – Something else to buy with platinum and or Affinity. I do think there should be some way to be able to test souls out on some kind of trial so people can decide of they want to buy them or not, but I'm sure making a system for it would be difficult. Either way, having extra options to purchase them would be nice.

    Reward Calendar – Please update and clean it up similar to the Prime version, but keep it relevant to current content at all times obviously. I do like the idea of giving out a random mount at the end of each month and having it be something that you don't already have.

    Fragments – Allow these to be purchased with other open world currencies like planarite and celestial dust.

    Gear – Always make sure that as a new tier rolls out, that you keep the catchup updated with reduced prices (marks) on previous tier armor, add in bundles and add in alternatives to the crafted gear which shouldn't be best in slot anyway. Vendor helms are already in, but not being able to get a ranged alternative sets you back a bit.

    The main point of this thread is to get some extremely focused discussion and suggestions going. I want to post some simple guidelines for people to follow when posting.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Concerns/Issues
    Do you agree or disagree with anything I had to say? Maybe you have your own personal issues with the store. Write it all down in this section.

    Suggested Improvements
    Post whatever suggestions of your own that you have about the store. A lot of people tend to criticize the game, the developers and the company for decisions made and that's fine, but don't take it into flaming, trolling or harassing devs or other people. Point out specific suggestions and keep it constructive in regard to what you feel can be improved upon.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you see people making similar threads (past or present) on the topic then direct them to this thread. As I previously stated, I wanted to give the devs as much feedback as possible from everyone and all sides.
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 03-28-2018 at 10:41 AM.

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    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    This reply was originally to save a spot for the bigger post that I was splitting. You can ignore it. ;)
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 03-28-2018 at 07:29 AM.

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    I also agree with putting affinity as a currency option for other items in the store. This gives players more of an incentive to be patron. I personally liked being able to buy mounts for just logging in, granted it took time, but still, I got it. Meanwhile, I could actively work towards purchasing it via plat, and if I did I could save up for something else. I liked the option of having multiple pathways to purchase the same item.

    I also like the idea of receiving wardrobe bundles and mounts for dungeons. Currently, on live dungeons are pretty useless and tedious. Aside from eternal grind, people can entirely skip dungeons and get into lfr td. I hope this would also include all past dungeons as well. The same 4 dungeons gets verrrrrrrry tedious.

    I'd personally like for the RNG on fragments to be significantly reduced or completely removed. Make it so that there are sets of fragments. One for healing, dps, and tanking. This way you only have to work towards 2/3 (leaving out tanking, since not everyone can tank or wants to) fragment per slot, instead of the current bazillion.
    Last edited by Mrwidoes; 03-28-2018 at 07:59 AM.
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    I dont know enough about the game yet to have much input on this, but i agree on lootboxes , older mounts, i think its fine for games to have cash items, they have to survive after all or there is no game. I think taking it too far is where you cross the line, rift has a wonderful model so far. Yes there are mounts and cosmetics in the shop that i drool over, but thats fine it dont hamper my gameplay if i dont have it. I do wish they would allocate old items dyes mounts more to the ingame drops or buy with plat etc. If there is one thing years of playing mmorpgs has taught me, removal of game items is a bad move. No matter the game its playerbase tends to react negatively when things are removed.

    Oh and how much will that doggie in the tinfoil hat cost me? The one with the waggley tail,

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    short story: for a long success story aim for quality and respect of values, shortcuts will never do good in the end.

    I think that having micro transactions this much present in game corrodes the way people play it and the value of the player base. Editers should also think about that. Better having 10K cluefull players than 20K clueless ones. Cluefullness brings better feedbacks and better transverse advertising (because smarter persons have stronger opinions and/or just make better youtube videos). So you get into a virtous circle where your community tends to grow and trust your capacity to update your game while giving your company a better image. As a rationnal person: I'm ok to pay subs and expansions to support game editing BUT I'm against any form of whaling.

    Rift always had this issue of poor quality community. It started at a point where a lot of players where wow players that was too bad to raid, when I got into rift my guild had cleared all the hard mode and felt already bored, but at this time maybe less than 1% playerbase had a meaningfull advancement on normal raiding) I may get flamed hard saying that but it's the plain truth. Introducing f2p/p2w-ish content creates influx of money through more players including whales and seems attractive when you have the structure already built. But it puts the community at a place where it selfdestructs. I also raided with members of the vanilla "tabouret" guild that had a lot of advancement in pve in another game, they were good, but seen way better(not saying I'm better just that they were not as good as you want for creating the virtuous circle I was speaking about). Overall I find that Rift was very good at release, some work should have been done on engine early to support more fluid gameplay but storytelling has been very strong and untill crucia's claw, I think that there have always been more quality than the oposite each release. I played the first expansion at release and found it pretty decent too despite a lot of nonsense-ish grind and still some lack of mph for pve end game content.
    Last edited by galuf; 03-28-2018 at 09:10 AM.

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    Personally this is how I view the store:

    . Vials - Absolutely no problem with these, I never use these myself and always end up just throwing away any that I get, I prefer to call items like this "pay to slack", maybe the person using them doesn't have much time to play or whatever, if they want to race to max level that is totally their choice.

    . Lockboxes - One of the biggest things that drove me away from the game back in the day, and I think given the recent EA fiasco it's pretty clear how the majority view these things. Sure, people will say "but it's only fluff items, you don't need those to enjoy the game", the problem comes when those fluff items are no longer obtainable through traditional means (dungeon & raid drops) and instead are exclusive to lockbox RNG, now people don't get to experience the thrill of earning that cool mount from a boss drop they fought hard for, which is lame and a major put off for me.

    . Daily Reward Charges - These were a new thing on me, having not played since the beginning of NMT I had no idea what they were at first, as someone who loves to run dungeons, I did not like the idea of having limited loot drops, however as I've played more I've come to realise why Trion have done this, to encourage people to take part in zone events, since then I've never been short of them so at the moment on Prime at least while I don't "like" them, they do serve a purpose. On live however is a different story, earning them is so few and far between because no doubt they want your money for these charges that, well let's just say I'm glad I don't play live.

    As for the rest of the store, I have no opinion on it one way or another, I wouldn't ever use the store myself apart from to spend whatever affinity points had accrued. As for the gear, I'm okay with that as long as the best gear at that current time is never available to buy, however you do have to realise that only a very small percentage will ever see the best gear in the game at any given time so I can totally understand others being pissed that people are able to buy their way to pretty damn good gear.
    Last edited by wolvojay; 03-28-2018 at 09:05 AM.

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    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolvojay View Post
    Daily Reward Charges - These were a new thing on me, having not played since the beginning of NMT I had no idea what they were at first, as someone who loves to run dungeons, I did not like the idea of having limited loot drops, however as I've played more I've come to realise why Trion have done this, to encourage people to take part in zone events, since then I've never been short of them so at the moment on Prime at least while I don't "like" them, they do serve a purpose. On live however is a different story, earning them is so few and far between because no doubt they want your money for these charges that, well let's just say I'm glad I don't play live.
    Currently on live, you gain 10 free IRCs as a patron every reset. They are to some extent a pain to gear up initially, but raids don't require you to use them with the exception of mini bosses which can be repeatedly done for accessories even after the raid has been cleared. This only happens for T1 and LFR. You can use them for stuff like raid rift farming (essences) and experts, but they only give you extra marks per boss after you clear a dungeon a second time in the same day. Gear will always drop even without IRCs, but still random. Outside of those things there's not much need for them since raiding isn't personal loot like it is in LFR and Prime. To be fair though, raids will most likely only be personal loot because of the accelerated nature of the server. There won't be much time to pass gear around with looting systems and what not. All of 5 of my characters are sitting on 100+ and have been for several months with the exception of my warrior since i've been farming raid rifts every Sunday.

    They've also given out IRC packs for holidays and other events for free. The calendar also gives a few charges. I do like the idea of IRCs dropping from PvE related content and that was something I forgot to add to my original post. The being said though, they're not by any means difficult to get nor is the any real need to buy them. It started off that way as it was completely new to everyone at that point, but it looks like they're on the right track with them to some extent now.



    Edit: The packmaster's caches are specifically from1 or 2 of the packs they put out for holidays. The pack of individual reward charges is what they occasionally give out for free.
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 03-29-2018 at 01:43 AM.

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    Rift Disciple Omerr's Avatar
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    Default Problem.

    Rift always has a some kind of grind thing but not like this. Grinding intel is like a huge mess and even pointless. What about fragments. Just upgrading 1 fragments cost like a 1.5 k dude that is pure RNG what about fragment drops ?? I dont even know how to explain fragments drop because I'm so mad.

    Taking AP-CP from the gears, weapons.... Oh man.... ( Who thought that thing ? )

    POA is the worst expansion I've ever seen on this game. I dont even know why they added so many strange things ? ( Maybe they thought that things can change the quality of the game )

    But the one thing I know they take huge lesson from this mistakes. Maybe they can release big expansion soon. Bring back 20 mans raid or different changes about class ( Balance and other stuff )
    • They added the raid gear with SL expansion via IRC. I still remember that times. ( But not fully sure )
    • Dont even want to talk about raids.... Focusing on 10 man content. Still laughing...
    • I hope they will not add Eternal weapons and Fragments on Prime server. Just hoping. Prime server is going good atm. So many peoples complains but still playing. ( Me as well )
    Last edited by Omerr; 03-29-2018 at 02:33 AM.

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    All of this is just my opinion and thatís all it is.

    Vials I donít have any issue with these. But Iím slow when it comes to leveling so I donít look at it as competitive on who reaches max the fastest. If you are the type of person that wants to be first to max then I see the problem.

    Gear in the store is kind of an issue. Putting previous gear in the store at the same time as releasing a new raid tier and saying itís not bis is kind of misleading. Maybe wait 3-4 months before putting previous gear in the store. That way raiders are rewarded for the work theyíve put in for the gear they have. I donít raid so Iím kind of guessing here.

    Loot boxes just suck all the way around in my opinion. They give me the feeling that Iím in a cheap game.

    Affinity needs to be done a little different to encourage staying subbed to the game. The way it works now it only encourages you to login while subbed. Thatís what the daily calendar is for. It should be you get affinity points each day you are subbed. These numbers are made up of course but have it work something like day 1 of sub you get 5 points. Day 2 10, day 3 15 and so on. On day 30 start over at day 1. If you want to reward extra affinity points for time played thatís just bonus. What this does is give an extra incentive to stay subbed when you might have to take a break for awhile due to circumstances. If something comes up and you know you wonít be able to play you think Iíll stay subbed because when I come back I will have enough affinity points to get the mount I want.

    As someone mentioned previously the daily calendar doesnít need to reset until Iíve completed it. Not on a monthly basis. Do you really want customers with a feeling of disappointment because they werenít able to login enough to obtain the daily rewards. And you still maintain the advantage for people that login in everyday. They get their rewards quicker and the calendar resets faster since they login everyday.

    Also think if it can be bought from the store with credits it should also be able to be purchased with affinity points.

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    Awesome work dude. I recommend people read through this post all the way, and hope the Devs adopt some of the great suggestions and ideas therein.

    I understand the gear release delay argument, but progress to me has always been relative to my free time, and never against others who have more of it.

    I don't agree that there is a $2w aspect because winning is playing (as opposed to progressing faster than the next person.)

    I love the calendar suggestion but wonder how that database call looks like relative to their rng script if the call is relative to every single character, or even account, as it tracks....
    Last edited by Viikto; 03-29-2018 at 07:25 AM.
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    Vials: not a problem for me as they are an option for those that do not want to grind as much to gain levels, favor, rep etc.

    Gear: should not be available. This is part of being active and achieving something ingame. Being able to buy epic gear is something I am very much against.

    Pets/Mounts: not a problem for me, but it should be skins only, not a faster mount, as that gives an advantage in zone events and pvp.

    I liked the cash shop in GW2: only cosmetic items, lots of items you could only get there. That is something I am for, as it does not give an advantage, but still gives you the option of customizing your character. i.e. armor sets, mounts, bags, colours etc. Game time that can be sold is also alright by me (REX).

    RnG Caches or other RNG elements are not alright, as there are no guaranteed rewards, and there are in fact people who struggle with gambling elements like it, which is very well known and capitalized upon with this system. That is highly unethical and it's taking advantage. If you sell boxes, they should contain a set amount of items for everyone who buys them.
    Last edited by Holysock; 03-29-2018 at 07:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post
    Currently on live, you gain 10 free IRCs as a patron every reset. They are to some extent a pain to gear up initially, but raids don't require you to use them with the exception of mini bosses which can be repeatedly done for accessories even after the raid has been cleared. This only happens for T1 and LFR. You can use them for stuff like raid rift farming (essences) and experts, but they only give you extra marks per boss after you clear a dungeon a second time in the same day. Gear will always drop even without IRCs, but still random. Outside of those things there's not much need for them since raiding isn't personal loot like it is in LFR and Prime. To be fair though, raids will most likely only be personal loot because of the accelerated nature of the server. There won't be much time to pass gear around with looting systems and what not. All of 5 of my characters are sitting on 100+ and have been for several months with the exception of my warrior since i've been farming raid rifts every Sunday.

    They've also given out IRC packs for holidays and other events for free. The calendar also gives a few charges. I do like the idea of IRCs dropping from PvE related content and that was something I forgot to add to my original post. The being said though, they're not by any means difficult to get nor is the any real need to buy them. It started off that way as it was completely new to everyone at that point, but it looks like they're on the right track with them to some extent now.
    When you say 10 per reset, is that daily reset or weekly? Because I did test out live for a few days just to get a feel for it while the ability lag issues were really bad on Prime, I'd say 3 days in all, and in that time I was given no extra IRCs so I can only assume you meant weekly reset? If this is the case, each dungeon has what 4 bosses on average? That's little over 2 dungeons a week which seems awfully stingy to me and that's without considering someone who does raid and does take part in raid rifts. It wouldn't be a major problem for me I guess as long as loot still did drop, but from my time with Prime (before they made it easier to obtain IRCs and increased the amount of "free" daily runs) whenever I did run out of them no loot dropped at all for me so I could only assume this was the same case on live.

    Also, waiting around for the next holiday or waiting to get lucky on the calendar doesn't appeal to me. If someone wants to run 5 dungeons a day and get loot they should be able to, that's like one of the most basic aspects of an mmo, however if they did adjust it so that like on live you earned IRCs from zone events, I personally think that would be much better.
    Last edited by wolvojay; 03-29-2018 at 07:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolvojay View Post
    When you say 10 per reset, is that daily reset or weekly? Because I did test out live for a few days just to get a feel for it while the ability lag issues were really bad on Prime, I'd say 3 days in all, and in that time I was given no extra IRCs so I can only assume you meant weekly reset? If this is the case, each dungeon has what 4 bosses on average? That's little over 2 dungeons a week which seems awfully stingy to me and that's without considering someone who does raid and does take part in raid rifts. It wouldn't be a major problem for me I guess as long as loot still did drop, but from my time with Prime (before they made it easier to obtain IRCs and increased the amount of "free" daily runs) whenever I did run out of them no loot dropped at all for me so I could only assume this was the same case on live.

    Also, waiting around for the next holiday or waiting to get lucky on the calendar doesn't appeal to me. If someone wants to run 5 dungeons a day and get loot they should be able to, that's like one of the most basic aspects of an mmo, however if they did adjust it so that like on live you earned IRCs from zone events, I personally think that would be much better.
    Just to lift any confusion, this is how IRC work on Live:

    - Dungeons - 1 run with DOUBLE loot (2 rolls) per day and dungeon boss, every other run gives SINGLE loot (1 roll) per boss or double loot again with IRC
    - Crafting Rifts - 1 free "super loot" roll per day, after that you get normal loot, which still gives mats but far less chance on Celestial Motes & Matrix (also the reason they are actually worth something tho).
    - LFR - 2 free runs per week with full loot, after that bosses only drop Intel. extra loot on LFR bosses cost 2-3 IRC per boss.
    - T1 iRotP Golems, TDNM Minibosses - 3 Golems and 3 Minis free loot per week, after that can be farmed with IRC (5 each for a Golem)
    - Patrons get 10 IRC on every character they log in each week. This is enough for 10 additional Crafting Rift "super loot" rolls or 10 dungeon bosses or a full LFR TD run or 2 Golems/Minibosses. As Crafting Rift loot is not bound, you can also easily use some alts and use their IRCs to farm Crafting Rifts.

    TL;DR:
    IRC only speed up your gearing process and save you some grind. You can still get loot from dungeons and rifts infinitely, just at "normal"/reduced rates. You also get the full loot rolls from 2x LFR and 1x full T1 raids every week.
    Last edited by Seshatar; 03-29-2018 at 08:12 AM.
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