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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Glyph of Dust - Plat Farming Appeal

  1. #46
    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    But I think part of the idea of allowing them to go so high was because we frequently heard towards the end of NT that there wasn't much point to plat in the game.
    Again, thank you for taking the time to reply to our walls of text. I noticed that comment on the discord ;P

    Just from my own personal experience as raider, that wasn't something I specifically heard. A lot of people spent quite a bit and almost too much plat in some cases on buying/crafting new runes and on removing runes (via credit gifters). I thought that was part of the decision to unify gear so that we weren't spending as much money on that sort of stuff outside of the one time leveling of frags. As you mentioned and as another did, frags definitely should've just been capped and whatever the content was tuned around and I still think non plat currencies. I suppose we'll have to wait and see though.

    I think the people that genuinely did complain that there was nothing to spend plat on towards the end of NT are probably the same people who simply refuse to spend it if they don't want to. That plat will always be floating around and I don't think there's much either devs or players can do about it unless you kick them in the shins and take it all. ;)

    I shall relent my appeal as I feel you've given enough reason behind the decision. I just felt the need to at least voice mine (and many others) opinon/concern on the subject as we don't want to be forgotten. I look forward to the fragment rework and hope further reductions come, especially when more catchup is brought in for alts as many people will be leveling those as well.

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  2.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #47
    Shiny Ball of Doomy Doom Salvatrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post
    I shall relent my appeal as I feel you've given enough reason behind the decision. I just felt the need to at least voice mine (and many others) opinon/concern on the subject as we don't want to be forgotten.
    To be clear, the intent of my voluminous response is to not tell you to cease through weight of words.

    More that I wanted to communicate where I stood and point out where discussion can be most fruitful (and to acknowledge where I know there are plat cost major friction points). And by all means, if there are other areas of plat need that is outrageously high, I am very keen to hear them.

    Simply put, I am always interested in constructive, respectful dialogs aimed at solving underlying problems, and less so on focusing the restoration of removed work-arounds.
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  3. #48
    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    It was more so relenting the idea of bringing the glyph of dust farming back. I do think you covered all of the bases of why people want plat and why the feel so much plat is required. I just can't think of anymore suggestions as of right now. Perhaps just a list of points:
    • Streamlining the fragments is something the team has discussed as one of their intentions while reworking them. Meaning less RNG in how the stats roll so that we don't need complicated lists to figure out what to aim for. Having (as an example) death fragments drop from death rifts would help with that as well.
    • In the future, I think they should only be taken whatever level raid content is being designed around it in terms of dps checks and tuning. Unlock a few more levels and new tiers come out or something along those lines so that people don't feel the need (whether they actually need to or not) to level them all the way to 15 or whatever the cap happens to be in the future.
    • Limit the upgrade process to in game currencies only. Perhaps allowing the lower levels to use a mix of planarite and open world currency. Then let the mid to high levels use dungeon and raid currency to cap it out. This way everyone is doing relevant content while leveling up their fragments while being gated on how high they can go with each tier.
    • As I mentioned before, the people with mountains of plat will always be sitting on that. I feel like perhaps adding more convenience type items in for plat may be some incentive. As much as I think the raid summon should stay exclusive for those of us who shelled out money for pre-orders in Nightmare Tide, I do think something like that would be something quite a few of those whales would throw their plat at.

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  4. #49
    Ascendant Seshatar's Avatar
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    I think economy-wise RIFT could learn a lot from ArcheAge. The labor point system makes every profession worthwhile. The inflation in AA is pretty low and due to gold being meaningful the APEX price is very acceptable. You could easily make 1-2 APEX per week, even 3-4 if you did some risky activities.

    RIFTs biggest problems are that crafting is mostly irrelevant, plat is flooded in from many unlimited sources (i. e. mob drops, random armor drops being worth more than their runebreaked mats). Secondly, except for fragments (which really only bother progression raiders) plat is almost completely useless.

    REX was meant to give free players a chance to earn credits/patron without spending money themselves. Unfortunately few people want plat = buy REX, thus a low supply of REX and a high demand for it. On EU the price is heading to 6K per REX, which seems impossible as a newcomer.

    The labor point system in ArcheAge is simply the most brilliant system I have encountered in MMORPGs so far (not saying it's perfect) and it makes it possible to be patron for 'free' with medium effort, while still being able to gear up and buy some other fluff. Maybe the devs could learn something from it.
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  5. #50
    Prophet of Telara Mordrahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Over the lifetime of a game, some amount of inflation is almost certain, but that doesn't mean to just let it run away. And sources of currency should reflect activites that are good for the health of the overall game. Solo activities in instances, crafting things that flip back to a vendor for cash gain are currency streams that do not benefit the larger game, and indeed hurt it because of the inflation issue.

    So currencies are preferred as a part of game healthy activities - doing quests, engaging in cross player economies, running group content, just grinding in the world (as opposed to afk in cities) that keep things alive - those are game positive activities.
    The highlighted words say it all.

    This I felt long ago, and it was a reason for me to leave the game.
    RIFT went from a very solo friendly game to a game where you have to play only group and instanced content. Every solo activity gets nerfed. Crafting used to be a part of the game, a way of life in game for some players.
    What you do by nerfing every solo activity is removing interest in the game for the many solo players (often crafters and dimensioners) and they leave.

    Long ago when crafting was a thing, you could play as a solo crafter, get xp with your crafting, farm your mats in the world, solo old instances for fun or wardrobe or plat, craft many useful things you could sell, make your own gear and go play group content when you wanted to. Now it is go grind Vostigar dailies and dungeons, afk at crossroads or in TB waiting for a dungeons queue. No more choice is not a good thing.
    Last edited by Mordrahan; 03-10-2018 at 12:10 AM.

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  6. #51
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    This does not bother me really. What does is when you invest in charges or something and find out a few months later that they forgot to add that loot to loot drop tables. That is all I wish they get straight all the time or remove the purchase of Individual reward charges totally.

    Fragments were a mess from the start. People felt that way going into the expansion and there was no cover up of the mess and prices. Most chose to continue to play Rift knowingly and hoping that the developer of this system will right the wrongs of such a system. There should not be tier rarity. Some classes get it easier than others to best in slot and maximize their secondaries because they get more chances at receiving their best in slot than others.

    What I want the devs to work on is actually thinking about getting rid of their biases, double standards, and making a neutrality space where they can find viable solutions that do not conflict with eachother.

    Here is are some examples of what I consider problems.

    To the itemization Dev:
    The eternal weapon buffs. They are unique to each class but they should not be. They should be the same for each class. Why? Because it is a double standard and bias and limits the class dev and fools your playerbase. Right now cleric has the healing buff for the raid. This portrays them as supposed to be the best healers to the community but in fact they are the worse healers in PvE and PvP. And in fact the class with the two tank souls is the worse tanking class in game as well? As a player we would call this simply ludicrous class balancing..and itemization balancing.

    To class dev:
    Stop looking at a class as a cleric, or warrior or rogue or mage based on archaic nomenclature. Look at the souls within their class and how the identities should line up to be synonymous with eachother. Like for instance cabalist, stormcaller, sab, and reaver were supposed to be AoE RANGE DPS SOULS. Yes you have Champion a melee dps AoE soul, but then you can create this melee AOE identity within the other classes etc. and people would gladly pay for it. But you get souls that make no sense and do not make up for the short comings.. shadeborn, runeshaper being made..

    Unfortunately this VERY SIMPLE and LOGICAL way of looking at the classes has been thrown out the door and you have all these double standards and bias and dirty hands for lack of better words making there way into the classes. This is why you get something like a warrior who can top healing and dps in a soul combo or a bard support hybrid who is cute and gets the luxury to heal better than a full blown healer. +The raid dev shouldn't have to develop around a class dev designing a class with mobility and target switching restrictions or lack of cleave as well or wether a class developer did something that adds an ability that does damage you themselves and that ability is amplified by a damage buff in a raid scenario so they press that ability and auto kill themselves and in some cases forces them to totally ditch playing that soul all together.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 03-10-2018 at 04:09 AM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    So currencies are preferred as a part of game healthy activities - doing quests, engaging in cross player economies, running group content, just grinding in the world (as opposed to afk in cities) that keep things alive - those are game positive activities.

    That is why if there are legitimate areas of the game where the expectation of plat expense is too great, the proper fix would be to look at those points of friction.

    If, on the other hand, it is merely a matter of "I like plat just so I can buy all the things or my dream is to be the Daddy Warbucks of Telara", well then losing the non-game-positive revenue streams is just something you will have to adapt to.
    I actually agree with this answer and am very satisfied with the explanation. Thank you Tacitus for taking the time. It is true that you don't need to min/max/obtain perfect fragments to clear current content. If min/max is your thing then be prepared to grind or purchase some REX, that is more than fair. As far as non game positive activities that earn pat, I can think of one more that might need your attention, and this is something I have done to earn a lot of plat- leveling alts to take advantage of the free shard transfers and then using the once a week free shard transfer to "play" the auction house. Simply put, buy something for cheap in one shard and then dumping it on an alt, then moving it to another shard and selling it at a profit. That is the definition of non game positive activity, and it can be quite lucrative. Let me clarify- using the auction house is game positive, but leveling an alt with no intent to play it except to do shard transfers/use auction houses, that is not game positive activity. This could be one of the things Trion can take a look at as well.

    edit: Just to add one more thing, buying stuff from one shard auction house and then moving it is actually hurtful to the other players of that shard, so it is more than just a non positive game activity.
    Last edited by Gurgi of Prydain; 03-10-2018 at 12:23 PM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurgi of Prydain View Post
    As far as non game positive activities that earn pat, I can think of one more that might need your attention, and this is something I have done to earn a lot of plat- leveling alts to take advantage of the free shard transfers and then using the once a week free shard transfer to "play" the auction house. Simply put, buy something for cheap in one shard and then dumping it on an alt, then moving it to another shard and selling it at a profit. That is the definition of non game positive activity, and it can be quite lucrative. Let me clarify- using the auction house is game positive, but leveling an alt with no intent to play it except to do shard transfers/use auction houses, that is not game positive activity. This could be one of the things Trion can take a look at as well.

    edit: Just to add one more thing, buying stuff from one shard auction house and then moving it is actually hurtful to the other players of that shard, so it is more than just a non positive game activity.
    So you think playing AH and cross shard trading is something that must be removed?
    TRION thinks otherwise, because they just allowed us to trade between shards without transfering. If you level and transfer alts for this I hope you love leveling because you need it no more.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurgi of Prydain View Post
    edit: Just to add one more thing, buying stuff from one shard auction house and then moving it is actually hurtful to the other players of that shard, so it is more than just a non positive game activity.
    Moving a good from a shard with high supply/low demand to a shard with low supply/high demand is hurtful for the first shard? Hm... okayyy.

    Using that logic of yours, it must be considered hurtful if you buy anything from the AH, since you're taking it away from other players on your shard.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elayara View Post
    Moving a good from a shard with high supply/low demand to a shard with low supply/high demand is hurtful for the first shard? Hm... okayyy.

    Using that logic of yours, it must be considered hurtful if you buy anything from the AH, since you're taking it away from other players on your shard.
    If you are buying an item to use it, then that is a game positive move. That item is used by you. If you are removing an item for the sole purpose of transferring to another shard to make some money, that is not a game positive activity. It is very lucrative and I have done it many times so I'm not judging anyone for doing it, but it does remove an item at a good price that other players may need for their gameplay.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdan View Post
    So you think playing AH and cross shard trading is something that must be removed?
    TRION thinks otherwise, because they just allowed us to trade between shards without transfering. If you level and transfer alts for this I hope you love leveling because you need it no more.
    I think Trion should just merge the auction house then it will stop the shard/auction house trading for good. I am for anything that makes the game better, even if it costs me opportunity to make plat. It's more important for the game to improve than for me to make plat. As far as leveling alts, it was pretty easy because if you knew what you were doing and were making good plat, it was a small plat investment to acquire instant levels for use on toons. If you have no clue what you are doing and spent a lot of time actually manually leveling your toons then maybe you need to learn how to do things smarter (and good luck in life as well).
    Last edited by Gurgi of Prydain; 03-10-2018 at 01:26 PM.

  12. #57
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    I didn't even know what the fuzz was about until Tacitcus mentioned it on Discord. Now I see the crying result.

    Crafting has and should always be a working profession. If again, just like with crafting dailies, you can't move your butt outside TB, then prioritize instead. If you want to level something, then play IT! If you want to earn money, then work for it!

    Crafting has loads of options currently, especially with those capable of making amenders. The required materials for those are not terrible to gather, and some are often gathered by minions.
    Fragments are more bearable to upgrade now after the price reduction, yet people simply conclude they can't be part of the community if their fragments ain't 100% perfect and spot on. As some already mentioned, this is NOT NEEDED.

    Dimensioneers may think they have a hard time, but expecting to build a house for no cost seems a tad silly. Next to that there is this thing called a community or a guild. People who are not into dimensioneering are more than willing to shell out their Dimension lockboxes.

    Daily content gives you a good handful of plat too. VP dailies, given which of them, take very little time along with the 4 celestials. Do Rhen of Fate chronicle to farm the artifacts.
    You can even go rift farming for the Dust, as it's rather priced to crafters who ain't bothered to gather it.
    Several regions regarding artifacts are also extremely lucrative. Sell more crap given by minions. Spot the 4 hour premium artifact minion quests for a possible shot at great and valuable artifacts.
    Take notice of Buy Orders on AH. Some can be worthwhile to do, if the desired item can be crafted or you have it lying around in the bank on an alt....

    ...my list is too long.

    Seriously people. Stop population TB and go out and work, instead of standing around like a drooling zombie and expect plat to fall on your head.
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  13. #58
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    I feel like many ppl forgot or didnt know that YOU HAD TO FARM MATS (not in TB ) to make lots looots LOOTS of belts on some lvl, you dont click and go.. then you had to break all of them and its not click and go, after all of it there is that Glyph crafting and its also not 100% click and go because there is a limit of items you can craft and then you must start crafting again and dont forget that bags also have limit = you couldnt just leave it and go to work

    what is the difference between farming mats for x item and farming for glyph (in the end) and standing and crafting both in TB?

    it wastn just OH CLICK GLYPHs and back after few hours

    ..you think doing same dailies everyday for few plat is not "a drooling zombie"? yes it is and its so da*n borring and frustrating
    Last edited by Sirenso; 03-10-2018 at 06:02 PM.

  14. #59
    Champion ShaolinSam's Avatar
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    That's exactly the point I was attempting to make earlier before getting shot down. Everyone seems to think crafters have some magical "get rich quick" macro we click to make money. It actually requires hours and hours and HOURS of farming mats. Then spend even more time making those mats into their usable components and THEN we can make some glyphs.

    So... I can spend hours and hours and HOURS farming dungeons for "phat lewtz" and sell it on the auctionhouse for x amount of money OR... I can spend the same amount of time farming mats and then even more time making the actual glyphs before selling it for plat.

    I personally don't see the logic (at all) for making all Glyphs 1 silver on the same day as Prime release. To me it's like "Hey there... look what we have here! A shiny new server for nostalgia purposes that we're going to take away from you in a year! YAY!!!" and instantly lots of people get excited and happy but then there's also "Shhhh... we also nerfed the heck out of some stuff on Live for funzies. Can't have all this happy without an equal load of sad" and instantly lots of crafters got incredibly sad while the people that farm dungeons cheered that they get a bigger marketshare now.

    Meh...

    It's all good. I still make money crafting. It just stinks that something got nerfed for absolutely not one logically good reason. Ah well lol.

  15. #60
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    Glyphs are not made by sitting in crafting zone and "not playing the game". You have to go out into the world and kill beasts to get the skins, come back to the crafting area and make those skins into hides that you have to level before you can make them. Buy items from the store, craft runes, break those down into items, then craft the glyph, then sell them to vendor, AND do that hundreds of times for hours, to get what 100 plat for 2 hours of work? We used to be able to get over 100 plat doing old dungeons for 30 mins. OMG, NEFF that crafting!

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