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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Glyph of Dust - Plat Farming Appeal

  1. #31
    Ascendant forbiddenlake's Avatar
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    Intentional. In the patch notes. tl;dr: plat should be earned by playing the game, not standing there and AFKrafting a bunch

  2. #32
    Champion ShaolinSam's Avatar
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    Wow... Just saw it in the Patch Notes from 3/7/18:

    CRAFTING

    RUNECRAFTING

    * The vendor value of crafted Glyphs has been reduced to 1 silver each.

    That is HARSH, Trion...

  3. #33
    Champion ShaolinSam's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I agree. I can spend hours and hours and hours "playing" the game and earning x as, let's call it, a dps style person.

    Or...

    Perhaps I'm one of those people that prefer crafting and earning money so I can get my crafting higher to be able to make and sell more items. Let's call it, a merchant style person.

    I personally don't see any harm in either playstyle. If the concern is someone sitting there and "AFK-earning" then why do crafters have the ability to "create all"? Is that a glitch?

    I personally feel that either playstyle should be both fun and rewarding. Whether you want to grab a bunch of people and piledrive dungeons all day to earn cash or if you want to spend your day farming cloth and hide and other items that are just as time-consuming as doing dungeons and such. It's not like us crafters just create a level 1 character and magically have the ability to get rich by pressing "Craft All" without having ingredients to craft with, lol

    Any other crafters care to weigh in on why this is silly?

  4. #34
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  5. #35
    Rift Chaser SonoMoenia's Avatar
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    Default Earning money by crafting

    I'm all in favor of earning money by crafting. However, I feel that the money should be earned by crafting for the economy of the game - selling to players. Personally I think that crafting to sell to vendors does not add value to the game world, even considering that the plat will eventually work its way back out to the rest of the economy. Just one opinion of many, I suppose.
    Last edited by SonoMoenia; 03-09-2018 at 01:46 PM.

  6. #36
    Champion ShaolinSam's Avatar
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    I agree that this nerf should be reverted for the following reasons, posted on my other thread:

    I can spend hours and hours and hours "playing" the game and earning cash as, let's call it, a dps style person. People, I'm sure, earn money that way by looting cash off mobs and selling rare loot on the auctioneer. This is a perfectly valid method of earning ingame cash.

    Or...

    Perhaps I'm one of those people that prefer crafting and earning ingame cash so I can get my crafting higher to be able to make and sell more items. Let's call it, a merchant style person.

    I personally don't see any harm in either playstyle. If the concern is someone sitting there and "AFK-earning" then why do crafters have the ability to "create all"? Is that a glitch?

    I personally feel that either playstyle should be both fun and rewarding. Whether you want to grab a bunch of people and piledrive dungeons all day to earn cash or if you want to spend your day farming cloth and hide and other items that are just as time-consuming as doing dungeons and such. It's not like us crafters just create a level 1 character and magically have the ability to get rich by pressing "Craft All" without having ingredients to craft with, lol

    Any other crafters care to weigh in on why this is silly?

  7. #37
    Rift Chaser SonoMoenia's Avatar
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    Default Supply & Demand

    I agree that both play styles (kill things; take their loot & make things; sell for profit) are good. Both playstyles are fun and rewarding. And I know plenty of crafters who make all sorts of money. I am a crafter. And before the dye bucket cosmetics came in, I made a pretty penny on Exceptional Black, Emerald, Ruby and Sapphire dyes. Right now the market is in Amenders. I'm greedy and don't sell mine, but plenty of others are crafting those for plat. Years ago, Runecrafters were making bank.

    The point is that the Merchant playstyle should be a Merchant playstyle.. not just a push a button to gain more plat. Selling crafted items to vendors should never be a large plat generating method. I think the vendors should pay out something.. this helps offset the cost of materials and training when we have to craft 10 to 20 pairs of leather boots just to get our skill level up. But overall, it should not generate lots and lots of plat. I think this because that source of income is never changing. Like the market does. If you want to be a successful Merchant, make the things that people will buy. Sell them at better prices than your competitors. That's what artisan crafting should be about, not just hitting Craft All and then selling it for 5x the cost of the mats.

    Perhaps the laws of Supply & Demand are at work here too. All those silly NPCs thought that Glyphs were gonna be da'bomb, so they stocked up at a reasonable price. Now they find out that all the NPCs in other cities and on other shards all were thinking the same thing and there's a glut of Glyphs. Now nobody wants 'em and the best price you can get is 1 silver.

    I don't mean to make light of something that others find frustrating, but I find that thinking about those poor NPCs with warehouses of those glyphs, and bank account sorely lacking in plat - well, it reminds me it's just a game and changes come and go.

  8. #38
    Champion ShaolinSam's Avatar
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    I like how incredibly WRONG this comment is...

    No, because it falls into the same kind of issue as Glyph grinding - the main source of plat generation should be actively playing the game with relevant content.

    Anytime a primary activity becomes pressing a button and going afk or face rolling grey mobs, those are likely targets for correction. Those are also the kind of activities that lead to economy inflation.
    Erm... First off... How is it different spending hours grinding away in super easy dungeons for money and items I can sell on the auctionhouse versus spending hours grinding away in super easy zones killing mobs to get crafting supplies from and then add that "press a button and go afk" thing to get "my" cash?

    So basically the only difference between doing the "approved by Tacitus" method of earning ingame currency and the "approved by everyone else" method of earning ingame currency is we have to do spend the same amount of time as other people that do dungeons but then have to add an extra step to actually make money.

    Gotcha...

    I'm really sorry (and I'm honestly not trying to sound flippant here) but your logic is incredibly terrible, as well as completely illogical.

  9.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #39
    Shiny Ball of Doomy Doom Salvatrix's Avatar
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    Just to be upfront, if the discussion cannot refrain from being phrased as personal commentary, the ability to remain in the conversation will be curtailed.

    -----

    On the topic of plat, if the main issue is where so much plat is needed, that is more of where solutions should be found - why the need exists.

    What is not going to happen is glyph of dust grinding or old raid farming as primary sources of plat generation, and focusing the conversation there will not get very far.
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  10. #40
    Champion ShaolinSam's Avatar
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    So the issue at hand isn't to fix what was broken by reverting it back to normal, it's to try and come up with a "different" way to fix it?

    If so, offhand... I'd say increase the amount of ingame currency that drops off mobs and/or retool all existing crafting skillsets to have increasing rewards for cash as you go deeper into the trees perhaps?

    Although, personally, I still feel the "easier" plan would just be to hit the reset button on that particular item (which will apparently never happen) but that's just my personal opinion as it appears Rift Prime made people really happy and then.... nerfing stuff made people really sad all over again.

  11. #41
    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    On the topic of plat, if the main issue is where so much plat is needed, that is more of where solutions should be found - why the need exists..
    I know you're busy so I appreciate the replies when time allows for it. We know Frags are being looked at and discussed. Maybe you or anyone on the team can't tell us every specific change, but at least letting us know that there will be significant reduction in costs or whether or not it will cost plat at all would at least alleviate the concern for the nerf. We can only discuss so much with little to no information available in that regard.

    As far as suggestions / solutions to the problem, I think the easiest would be to have a significant platinum reward increase from everything. Glyph of dust was by no means an easy thing to do. Most of the work was still manual and would take 3-4 hours to turn 1000 leather into 1000p. I feel like if content were to at least able to give us that much in the same amount of time then there probably wouldn't be any issues. Again, that's just an easy suggestion as a player. I don't know how easy or realistic that would actually be from the technical side of things. This would also not only cover frags, but just the general day to day stuff that people at any and every level do. Casuals, dimensioneers, artifact hunters ect.

    The second choice would obviously be to just completely rip the plat requirement from frags and allow them to use the stockpiles of in game currency we have. It's also difficult to suggest solutions when we, at times, rarely hear back even if devs are actively reading. It's especially difficult when the platinum from relevant content has been a major issue since the start of the expansion.
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 03-09-2018 at 04:21 PM.

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  12.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #42
    Shiny Ball of Doomy Doom Salvatrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post
    As far as suggestions / solutions to the problem, I think the easiest would be to have a significant platinum reward increase from everything.
    The primary effect of that would be to cause inflation in the prices of everything (especially REX) and would cause many, many more problems than it solved.

    Anything that introduces Platinum - as a lifetime core, uncapped, currency - into the economy is a balance act against inflation, and needs to be balanced against the sinks of such currencies.

    Over the lifetime of a game, some amount of inflation is almost certain, but that doesn't mean to just let it run away. And sources of currency should reflect activites that are good for the health of the overall game. Solo activities in instances, crafting things that flip back to a vendor for cash gain are currency streams that do not benefit the larger game, and indeed hurt it because of the inflation issue.

    So currencies are preferred as a part of game healthy activities - doing quests, engaging in cross player economies, running group content, just grinding in the world (as opposed to afk in cities) that keep things alive - those are game positive activities.

    That is why if there are legitimate areas of the game where the expectation of plat expense is too great, the proper fix would be to look at those points of friction.

    If, on the other hand, it is merely a matter of "I like plat just so I can buy all the things or my dream is to be the Daddy Warbucks of Telara", well then losing the non-game-positive revenue streams is just something you will have to adapt to.

    But I am not assuming the complaints are about the latter, but rather the former - the points of friction where the NEED (as opposed to want) of plat is too much.

    Now, I am aware of a couple of those points that come up frequently. One is Dimensions, and it is why as I have touched various parts of the massive library of dimension items, I have been routinely reducing the plat costs in so, so, so many places. And I am not done doing so (and will probably never be done doing so).

    I know Planar Crafted gear is another one, and I plan on reducing the catch up costs there as soon as I catch up from Carnival stuff and a few other things.

    Then there is the elephant in the room...

    The second choice would obviously be to just completely rip the plat requirement from frags and allow them to use the stockpiles of in game currency we have. It's also difficult to suggest solutions when we, at times, rarely hear back even if devs are actively reading. It's especially difficult when the platinum from relevant content has been a major issue since the start of the expansion.
    In the case of planar fragments, we know that is another sticking point. I know the prices got slashed by Vladd twice (most recently about 3 months ago) - and perhaps more cost reduction should be consider (though I don't think plat cost is the only issue players have with fragments). I know the perception is still that they are too high, but part of that is due to the goal of perfect frags all at 15. This is where I suspect we will find more conflict. The content for non raiders was balanced around all slots filled with decent fragments at level 6. For raiders, depending on how aggressive, the balance point is really good to near ideal fragments at levels approaching 12.

    But the content is NOT intended to be balanced around a full complement of perfect level 15 fragments. Here is a blunt truth - if you want to min/max to that bleeding edge, it is going to be expensive. It is going to hurt. Perhaps we should not have even allowed them to go to 15? Perhaps. But I think part of the idea of allowing them to go so high was because we frequently heard towards the end of NT that there wasn't much point to plat in the game. That there wasn't that much you needed it for. Now _I_ know that there has always been a wide disparity in Rift between the plat haves and have-nots. Of course the have nots were not saying this. but many haves were. So, the grinding perfect frags to 15 is a plat sink option that exists for those that have stupid amounts of plat and wanting to be on the bleeding edge of min/max.

    But simply put - that goal is not what the game economy (and plat generation) is going to be balanced around.

    So, there you have a dissertation about plat economy considerations. :P

    May it help inform where the conversation goes from here. I am very keen on points of friction regarding plat NEED. If there are major ones I did not list above, by all means call them out (I think I nailed the top 3, but feel free to weigh in on that).

    Ever verbosely,
    Tacitus.


    (Thank the Vigil there is not a plat cost on word count!)
    Last edited by Salvatrix; 03-09-2018 at 05:03 PM.
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  13. #43
    Ascendant Challengere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    But the content is NOT intended to be balanced around a full complement of perfect level 15 fragments. Here is a blunt truth - if you want to min/max to that bleeding edge, it is going to be expensive. It is going to hurt. Perhaps we should not have even allowed them to go to 15? Perhaps. But I think part of the idea of allowing them to go so high was because we frequently heard towards the end of NT that there wasn't much point to plat in the game. That there wasn't that much you needed it for. Now _I_ know that there has always been a wide disparity in Rift between the plat haves and have-nots. Of course the have nots were not saying this. but many haves were. So, the grinding perfect frags to 15 is a plat sink option that exists for those that have stupid amounts of plat and wanting to be on the bleeding edge of min/max.

    But simply put - that goal is not what the game economy (and plat generation) is going to be balanced around.

    So, there you have a dissertation about plat economy considerations. :P

    May it help inform where the conversation goes from here. I am very keen on points of friction regarding plat NEED. If there are major ones I did not list above, by all means call them out (I think I nailed the top 3, but feel free to weigh in on that).

    Ever verbosely,
    Tacitus.


    (Thank the Vigil there is not a plat cost on word count!)
    problem is the max players with all 15s set the standard for crossevents recruiting dps standards for rapid runs which is why we all want to get them up there now, as long as a max is capable the player base will make it the dependency by which all players much attain to participate

  14. #44
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Challengere View Post
    problem is the max players with all 15s set the standard for crossevents recruiting dps standards for rapid runs which is why we all want to get them up there now, as long as a max is capable the player base will make it the dependency by which all players much attain to participate
    Yes, it's the classic. If you don't make the game easy mode for the people, they will find someone who will.

  15.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #45
    Shiny Ball of Doomy Doom Salvatrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Challengere View Post
    problem is the max players with all 15s set the standard for crossevents recruiting dps standards for rapid runs which is why we all want to get them up there now, as long as a max is capable the player base will make it the dependency by which all players much attain to participate
    There will always be a level of elitism that players will use to set thresholds by which they wish to invite others. If it was not this, it would be something else. I have never been in an MMO that did not have players broadcasting arbitrary, player determined rules which were used to stratify invites to activities.

    It is, unfortunately, not a metric by which entire game systems should be scaled.
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