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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Glyph of Dust - Plat Farming Appeal

  1. #16
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    Default PLAYING THE GAME TO MAKE PLAY? HOW?

    You say "the main source of plat generation should be actively playing the game with relevant content."

    HOW? WHAT RELEVANT CONTENT GENERATES ANY PLAT?

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    No, because it falls into the same kind of issue as Glyph grinding - the main source of plat generation should be actively playing the game with relevant content.
    I'm going to use an example from another mmo game, Final Fantasy 14, where if you do your dungeons, raids, trials, you can make a lot of gil (gil is basically plat in that game) but if we do that in Rift we are not really making any plat. I believe dungeons, raids fall within the "actively playing the game with relevant content" so with that in mind, would you consider bumping up the plat from these activities? That way, we can play the game and make enough plat without having it feel like a 2nd job trying to get enough plat in the game (without buying/selling REX)?
    Last edited by Gurgi of Prydain; 03-08-2018 at 07:33 PM.

  3. #18
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post
    The problem from the very start of this expansion is that gearing require an enormous plat sink in order to be complete and be competitive as new tiers come out. Skill will only get you so far as fragments are a large part of your dps. Relevant content has yet to give us relevant amounts of plat in order to do that.
    Being competetive has always been expensive but it has gotten worse and worse over the years. Hikos did some number crunching near the end of NMT and made a very popular post that listed an approximated cost of ~50k platinum for a single raider to progress and gear to BiS though NMT T3 over 3 months. This estimate included not only gearing (side-grade/upgrade components, runes, orbs, etc), but also 3 months worth of consumables (whetstones, vials, cit pots, feasts, insoles) and sigils. A hefty chunk of this cost could be mitigated by guild cooperation sharing and crafting as a whole leaving the individual cost much lower. At the time this figure was considered ridiculous. An individual player at that time though could still be competitive without perfect orbs, absolutely BiS essences, and without chugging crit pots on cool down.

    As you mentioned at the top teir a set of ideal fragments can run north of 200k platinum for just those specific gear slots (a lot of that cost comes from the total randomness of fragments, which also adds a very significant layer of frustration with a good chunk of that platinum being sent off into the void as bad upgrades render individual fragements functionally useless). If you throw in essences, crafting/upgrading armor peices, and consumables like Hikos did that's an individual cost that can be measured in large fractions of a million plat which unlike NMT much of that can't be mitigated. Fragments, IRCs, etc. are 100% on the player. And also unlike NMT, fragments are significantly more impactful to player performance being such a vital source of Crit Power, and players absolutely cannot be competitive if they skimp on them (when I say competitive I mean not only pushing for firsts/kill times, but also when comparing two players of equal skill.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    No, because it falls into the same kind of issue as Glyph grinding - the main source of plat generation should be actively playing the game with relevant content.
    I've been at the bleeding edge of progression on relevant Rift content for the better part of a decade. Raid, group, solo, open world, instanced content, you name it and I've probably done it. That, unsurprisingly, is not a good source of plat generation. If anything actively playing relevant content has cost me plat.

    Actually making plat in Rift has most efficiently been done in one of three ways: spending money on REX/credits and selling those to other players, "loopholes" in gamplay (soloing old raids/dungeons/chronicles over and over, crafting items with disproportionate vendor costs, etc), or trade. The last method requires either a standing supply of plat (money makes money) or an amazing stroke of luck (e.g. the only person with the relic cape recipe drop on Greybriar back in SL.) There are some other ways to make plat but due to much smaller profits, significantly greater time/effort requirements, or other mitigating factors they are much less efficient or are simply not an option for most players.

    The fact is just playing the game is in no way close to profitable enough for the amount of plat players will need to min/max their character (I don't want to derail here over the min/max argument but a player just upgrading whatever fragments they find will be in no way "competitive", and while there are dimensioneers, rpers, "ultra-casuals", etc. Rift is a traditional mmorpg of which character progression is a cornerstone.)

    If a player has all 9 professions and took an hour a day to do every crafting daily and every zone daily quest since 4.0 launched 478 days ago, without spending any of the plat they earned on anything but upgrading fragments they would just now be finishing their third set of fragments (dps/healing, tanking, and pvp) if they were just upgrading whichever fragments they managed to come across. If they were trying to min/max only a single set they would have less than half of the plat they would need.

    Actually progressing a character at any acceptable rate requires usage of either the RIFT store or one of those "deviant" behaviors.

    I do not think that afk crafting these glyphs should remain, and I agree that ideally engaging in relevant content should be both the best option and sufficient for players needs, but reality differs. Which is to some extent expected, considering creating and managing player inconvenience is one of the primary ways free to play games monetize themselves, but that doesn't make it any more palatable.

    I've been pretty vocal with my opinion regarding many things Rift has done over the years, but the long and short of it is planar fragments are the worst thing to happen to the game. They've negatively impacted the player experience in so many ways from this current discussion of plat generation (gearing a character has never been this intensive), to content tuning (the variation between ideal and average fragment sets is so huge there's no accurate baseline for what a characters effective power should be at any specific gearing level), to the maddening amount of randomness they involve. It's pretty clear they were intended to give players a sense of pride and accomplishment.
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  4. #19
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    So the tl;dr of this thread is:

    Player: The game is so expensive, why another nerf to plat making?
    Trion: You should have expected this to be removed. Go play relevant content to make plat.
    Player: But what relevant content can I play to make that horrendous amounts of plat the game asks me for?
    Trion: <Tumbleweed rolling, crickets chirping>

    Personally I find it disturbing that they have a clear idea of what they don't want players to do, while there seems to be some serious lack of clarity in what they want players to do.

  5. #20
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    Trion: <Tumbleweed rolling, crickets chirping>
    I'm sure a lot of that has to do with how busy they are with Prime and fine tuning things. I also posted this question at the same time as my questions for the stream tomorrow so hopefully we'll hear more about it then if not here. http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...rime-time.html
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 03-09-2018 at 01:19 AM.

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  6. #21
    Prophet of Telara Mordrahan's Avatar
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    Current rule of thumb : If you can get XP or plat from a fun and relaxing activity, expect it to be nerfed.
    It began with the fishing daily, then it came to removing crafting XP, and removing loot and plat from old content. Each new patch has a little nerf to something.

    What they want you to do? Go to Vostigar and farm there. If you don't like it, go out. This is what I did.

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elayara View Post
    So the tl;dr of this thread is:

    Player: The game is so expensive, why another nerf to plat making?
    Trion: You should have expected this to be removed. Go play relevant content to make plat.
    Player: But what relevant content can I play to make that horrendous amounts of plat the game asks me for?
    Trion: <Tumbleweed rolling, crickets chirping>

    Personally I find it disturbing that they have a clear idea of what they don't want players to do, while there seems to be some serious lack of clarity in what they want players to do.
    I'm pretty sure they want players to purchase REX. Personally I don't mind if a company just comes out and say it, since we understand this is a business, but for some reason they seem afraid to say this.

  8. #23
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    The handful of folks who've cornered certain markets and who have giantic stockpile sof plat have totally skewed the stats on plat and everyone gets nerfed because of it. Guess who is hurt the most by this? Hint: it's not the folks with the average-skewing stockpiles...
    Last edited by Islesi; 03-09-2018 at 06:47 AM.
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  9. #24
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    If I were to create a game and it had a method like this to generate lots of money, I would reduce the vendor price too to protect the economy. That is common sense.

    The real issue are fragments and their upgrade costs. Allowing methods to generate plat to exist because of fragments is not a good idea. That would mess up the economy. It is better to fix the root of the problem: fragment costs.

  10. #25
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    as the people mentioned above , frags cost , raid consumables , dimers , rpers ,etc.

    glyph farming is an efficient way of making raw plat. deviant behavior? maybe.

    but the thing is , if "actively playing the relevant content" referring to vp dailies , the plat you get from those dailies are not remotely enough for daily/weekly plat consumption.

    and not many people have the time and resource to invest in AH to gain plat using shard price differences.

    in addition, dont forget all the caches / boxes / event items / cosmetics / rune and/or essence removal / tradeskill cooldown reset and a bunch more examples of gifting services that players provide. Those also contributing to the REX economy , cuz people need/want those items but they might not have that much amount of real money to purchase enough REX to gain enough credits to buy what they want , so they turn to gifters , whom are willing to purchase REX to do the trading. And now , people cant make plat > cant buy stuff from gifters > no trading > gifters stop buying REX.

    as for prime , like someone stated above , prime is only one shard , it wont be affecting people playing on prime since cant shard hop and such.

    i understand if you want to encourage people to buy REX but you also have to acknowledge that not everyone is able to use real money to purchase REX. Players that farming plat to purchase REX from other players also contributing to the REX economy , since the players who bought REX and planning to sell them to gain profit also need a group of people with enough money to buy the rex in the first place. Now you took away the mean of the majority to make plat for purchasing REX , gradually they wont be having enough money to buy a single REX from other players and may lead to even less people buying REX. But thats just my opinion.

    In the meanwhile , i have yet to see we have an efficient way to make enough money for daily/weekly plat usage
    Last edited by Cileriqao; 03-09-2018 at 08:19 AM.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post
    If you're going to settle for some of the stats you get on your lvl 15 frags then it's about 30k before the 50% cut. 15-20k after the cut, but that's not including if you get really unlucky with crits. If you're going to min/max your frags then it's closer to 250-300k with unlucky crits included in that range.

    I think if fragments are actively being re-worked / looked like and if that includes a huge plat reduction, then at least keep the plat farming around until those changes come through.
    Ya' know, I'm really glad that raiding isn't my thing. I level to cap and get enough gear to make doing open world content easier and then I go do another character or play with dimensions.

    The problem is though, if it was my thing--and I'm sure it is for many new players--that amount of plat is a huge barrier to entry. At least in WoW, if I want to raid, I can get the gear that I need to progress by doing actual content, and the cost of enchants and consumables doesn't seem prohibitive to this degree.

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cileriqao View Post
    as the people mentioned above , frags cost , raid consumables , dimers , rpers ,etc.
    i understand if you want to encourage people to buy REX but you also have to acknowledge that not everyone is able to use real money to purchase REX. Players that farming plat to purchase REX from other players also contributing to the REX economy , since the players who bought REX and planning to sell them to gain profit also need a group of people with enough money to buy the rex in the first place. Now you took away the mean of the majority to make plat for purchasing REX , gradually they wont be having enough money to buy a single REX from other players and may lead to even less people buying REX. But thats just my opinion.

    In the meanwhile , i have yet to see we have an efficient way to make enough money for daily/weekly plat usage
    REX price has always been increasing and I don't think that'll stop now. The demand for REX has always been very high. In a normal economy supply would increase to satisfy demand. This does not apply to REX. My hypothesis is that due to the price increase, the supply decreases because people need less REX to get the plat they want. So less people buying REX is in fact good from that perspective.

  13. #28
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    thank god raiding isnt fun anymore no need to spend my life on farming plat, dont even know how now earn plat in here

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dico View Post
    REX price has always been increasing and I don't think that'll stop now. The demand for REX has always been very high. In a normal economy supply would increase to satisfy demand. This does not apply to REX. My hypothesis is that due to the price increase, the supply decreases because people need less REX to get the plat they want. So less people buying REX is in fact good from that perspective.
    Those prices will also increase for people who are playing on both prime and live.

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  15. #30
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    Default Glyph of Dust - Nerfed?

    Pre-Rift Prime, Glyph of Dust sold for roughly 2plat.

    Now, Post-Rift Prime, it only sells for 98 silver.

    Erm... What's up, Trion? Is that a stealth nerf / IE - intentional? Or was it an accident? Just curious.

    Thanks, in advance.

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