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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: This patched just WoWed me and my guild beyond belief. Definition of P2W

  1. #1
    Champion of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Default This patched just WoWed me and my guild beyond belief. Definition of P2W

    It started with the 200 stash. Cool, I can understand, it's Christmas, you guys need a boost and we get goodies with it.

    Then we noticed the jewelry boxes, I did a bit of calculations. Estimated I would need about 800k intel now to get all my gear at a decent level (I've not bought any trinkets yet etc.)

    Then we finally noticed the stashes in Equipment -> Upgrade Parts.

    This was the point my jaw just dropped.


    I'm hoping considering intel is so expensive to buy (50 ish for 20k) then most people won't do it, but the fact that you made it so accessible compared to the complete inaccessibility of grind is just beyond the beyond. For about 2000 I could go from average/decent gear to best gear in game (this includes buying plat to fill in the extras). I can understand why people would do this, because second boss in bastion is all about gear, nothing about skill.

    This is worse than weapons for TD, because at least then you knew the eternals would come soon enough. I can't imagine anything coming in the future that will beat intel. I think we've seen the end in sight.

    Guys it feels like you're going for one big blast of exploitation before you pack your bags.


    This is a constructive post, because it's leading to a question. What on earth led you to the decision to do this?
    Last edited by Refuge; 12-07-2017 at 01:56 PM.
    Fwob - Zaviel

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    Rift Chaser SonoMoenia's Avatar
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    I don't think the 20K Intel bundles will be a hot seller. Especially as they have just added in a lot of new ways to gather intel. TD:LFR, random dungeons, all Celestial Land Zone Events, etc. Additionally, you can only purchase 1 per day, so it's not like tomorrow my friend the bazillionaire will be better geared than me.

  3. #3
    Champion of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonoMoenia View Post
    I don't think the 20K Intel bundles will be a hot seller. Especially as they have just added in a lot of new ways to gather intel. TD:LFR, random dungeons, all Celestial Land Zone Events, etc. Additionally, you can only purchase 1 per day, so it's not like tomorrow my friend the bazillionaire will be better geared than me.

    No more than 100 per event, so you're looking at 8,000 events to really get top gear. :/

    p.s. apologies about double post, not sure how I did that. One needs removing.
    Fwob - Zaviel

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    Rift Disciple rlowe47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    This is a constructive post, because it's leading to a question. What on earth led you to the decision to do this?
    $$$
    This is not a constructive response, just a matter of fact.

    You no longer need to stretch the P2W argument, this just makes it clear.
    Irlowe@Deepwood Iirlowe@Deepwood Urlowe@Deepwood Primalowe@Deepwood Rlowe@Deepwood
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  5. #5
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    selling world currency is tantamount to advertising that a game isn't fun

    so there's that

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    Ascendant Proclus_Lycaeus's Avatar
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    Truth be told, there is no such thing as "Play to Win" in a game like Rift ... were every time they raise the level cap, open up a new zone, introduce new gear, etc. Further, you never really "Win" at a game like this. You just keep playing and playing and playing. There is now "win".

    Look back 2 years ago to what WAS "Best in slot" ... even without having to pay a single penny, standard loot drops have made those items a joke. Mark my words, when the level cap is raised AGAIN, and a new zone opens up, the current BiS items ... "worked for" or purchased, will be junk.

    People should stop calling it "Best in Slot" and refer to what it really is "Best in Slot for What's In Game Right Now".

    My 2 cents
    Last edited by Proclus_Lycaeus; 12-08-2017 at 01:11 PM.
    Retired from the forum community 12/19/2017

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    Rift Chaser Rivkah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proclus_Lycaeus View Post
    Truth be told, there is no such thing as "Play to Win" in a game like Rift ... were every time they raise the level cap, open up a new zone, introduce new gear, etc. Further, you never really "Win" at a game like this. You just keep playing and playing and playing. There is now "win".

    Look back 2 years ago to what WAS "Best in slot" ... even without having to pay a single penny, standard loot drops have made those items a joke. Mark my words, when the level cap is raised AGAIN, and a new zone opens up, the current BiS items ... "worked for" or purchased, will be junk.

    People should stop calling it "Best in Slot" and refer to what it really is "Best in Slot for What's In Game Right Now".

    My 2 cents
    Just because gear at some theoretical future time will be better does not change the fact that for NOW, in present day, some 1 percenter can just pay their way to the best gear that exists in the current build of the game.

    We need to talk about how the game is as it currently exists, not some theoretical future time. Buying the best currency outright with credits sets a bad precedent anyway. With this, they have established that they'll probably do it again in the future.

    It's blatant P2W and it's indefensible.
    Last edited by Rivkah; 12-08-2017 at 01:47 PM.

  8. #8
    Telaran Slaybae's Avatar
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    https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBat...ocked/dppum98/

    Does EAs response ring any bells?

  9. #9
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    Not a fan of the intel boxes for credits. Making them also buyable with ethereal shards would be a positive step.
    Nivv <Stack More Crit>
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  10. #10
    Ascendant Proclus_Lycaeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivkah View Post
    Just because gear at some theoretical future time will be better does not change the fact that for NOW, in present day, some 1 percenter can just pay their way to the best gear that exists in the current build of the game.

    We need to talk about how the game is as it currently exists, not some theoretical future time. Buying the best currency outright with credits sets a bad precedent anyway. With this, they have established that they'll probably do it again in the future.

    It's blatant P2W and it's indefensible.
    I'm sorry, I don't think that it is indefensible.

    I think what IS indefensible is the mentality that a company should spend tens of millions of dollars to develop, God knows how many hundreds of thousands of dollars every year to run, and people EXPECT and think they are ENTITLED to play it for free.

    I keep hearing from people who seem to look down the nose of those people who PAY to play the game, when they can make in game money by grinding for hours collecting hides and plants and plats and selling them for stuff they want. But what those people fail to understand is that using in game currency only doesn't fill up a car with gasoline, or pay a mortgage, or put clothes on your back, or formula in an 18 month olds bottle ... people who PAY money do.

    Now I'm not knocking people who can sit at home and play 6, 10, 12, or more hours a day because they don't have a job, or they are on government assistance, disability, etc. that is their concern ... but for those of us who have to work for a living and have a family and more than just one hobby, the notion of GRINDING 8 hours for a couple stacks to Starhide just to sell is silly. Some of us would rather spend an hour at work making $41 an hour and put some of that money in the pockets of developers.

    Plat doesn't make a car payment, and Gedlo's Curry Pot doesn't feed a baby.
    Retired from the forum community 12/19/2017

  11. #11
    Rift Chaser Rivkah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proclus_Lycaeus View Post
    I'm sorry, I don't think that it is indefensible.

    I think what IS indefensible is the mentality that a company should spend tens of millions of dollars to develop, God knows how many hundreds of thousands of dollars every year to run, and people EXPECT and think they are ENTITLED to play it for free.

    I keep hearing from people who seem to look down the nose of those people who PAY to play the game, when they can make in game money by grinding for hours collecting hides and plants and plats and selling them for stuff they want. But what those people fail to understand is that using in game currency only doesn't fill up a car with gasoline, or pay a mortgage, or put clothes on your back, or formula in an 18 month olds bottle ... people who PAY money do.

    Now I'm not knocking people who can sit at home and play 6, 10, 12, or more hours a day because they don't have a job, or they are on government assistance, disability, etc. that is their concern ... but for those of us who have to work for a living and have a family and more than just one hobby, the notion of GRINDING 8 hours for a couple stacks to Starhide just to sell is silly. Some of us would rather spend an hour at work making $41 an hour and put some of that money in the pockets of developers.

    Plat doesn't make a car payment, and Gedlo's Curry Pot doesn't feed a baby.
    Are you really assuming the average player of this game is making 41 dollars an hour? That's fairly laughable.

    I don't get this false dichotomy of 'has lots of time and no money' versus 'has no time and lots of money,' as it completely leaves out working class people who are at work for a long time and STILL can't afford many of the in-game purchases. A single mom working two waitressing jobs is still short on time and doesn't have the funds to pay a quarter month's rent on BiS gear. So not only are they screwed IRL, but their main source of escapism now has haves and have-nots.

    That goes completely counter to what a fair MMO should be. A fair MMO should be that if you put in the work you get the gear at the same rate as everyone else. Having pay 2 win currency packs that bypass weekly currency caps is putting those people of privilege with tons of disposable income ahead of everyone else way faster.

    And yes, it is indefensible when they promised that you would never pay for power in game. This IS paying for power.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    I was lucky enough to be selected for beta way back when. Rift was amazing then, i couldn't wait for it to be released. The journey from 1-50 was magical, the pvp was so fun and not just the WF but the open world pvp that is now nonexistent. Everyone was able to work up and get geared easily enough with some time. everyone was very friendly. but that was then.
    And now the game has been corrupted by greed. Selling 'loot boxes' to kids was the beginning, and every year it gets worse, now you can just go buy everything.... where is the challenge? where is the fun? where is the sense of accomplishment? Why would you guys at trion do something like this? other than greed i mean. i have cancelled my sub and have contacted my congressman to enlighten them of the gambling type boxes being sold to children and of the fowl content in your chat channels that kids are being exposed to. i can only hope others will follow my example if only to show trion that we will not be exploited like this!

  13. #13
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proclus_Lycaeus View Post
    Truth be told, there is no such thing as "Play to Win" in a game like Rift ... were every time they raise the level cap, open up a new zone, introduce new gear, etc...you never really "Win" at a game like this.
    And you cannot win the soccer world cup, because there will be another one in 4 years. Sounds reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclus_Lycaeus View Post
    I think what IS indefensible is the mentality that a company should spend tens of millions of dollars to develop, God knows how many hundreds of thousands of dollars every year to run, and people EXPECT and think they are ENTITLED to play it for free.
    Because back in 2013 all the subbed players wanted Rift to become F2P, so they could play the game without ever paying again. Hmmm...
    Guess what? When a company offers a service for free, nobody should complain when people use said service for free. It's not the player's fault when they make use of what the company offers them.

    But while I totally disagree with your reasons, I agree with your original point: there is no winning in Rift. Because what is left one could possibly win? The race to first kills? Yeah, sure. PvP? Even Trion officials suggested to play other games if you want to experience PvP. What else? Pay to win the next costume or dimension contest?

    IMO the problem is not that they're selling equip; the problem is that the gameplay gets changed in a way that enforces players to buy this equip. This means that playing the game becomes so grindy and un-fun that the thought of buying equip becomes more and more appealing. And that is the real problem with F2P games which sell equip, and the reason why people do not want this to happen.

  14. #14
    Sword of Telara Sarasyn's Avatar
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    This is just awesome. BiS is the light at the end of the short tunnel now, if you can afford it. I'm happy for the players that need or want or can afford to go this route. Cheers. There will be a spike in players for a while now, and that's always a good thing. Unfortunately, there will also be the sub paying, time grinder base that will not like this and walk away from the game, for one reason or another. Most likely, they don't have $250 to throw down at this time of the year. To quote a popular London miser, " I shall retire to bedlam.."

    On a side note: If my wife is reading this post, I wouldn't be opposed to getting the Dragon Hoard Pack for Christmas.
    Last edited by Sarasyn; 12-09-2017 at 02:35 AM.
    Just, comfortably numb....

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    Ascendant Proclus_Lycaeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivkah View Post
    Are you really assuming the average player of this game is making 41 dollars an hour? That's fairly laughable.

    I don't get this false dichotomy of 'has lots of time and no money' versus 'has no time and lots of money,' as it completely leaves out working class people who are at work for a long time and STILL can't afford many of the in-game purchases. A single mom working two waitressing jobs is still short on time and doesn't have the funds to pay a quarter month's rent on BiS gear. So not only are they screwed IRL, but their main source of escapism now has haves and have-nots.

    That goes completely counter to what a fair MMO should be. A fair MMO should be that if you put in the work you get the gear at the same rate as everyone else. Having pay 2 win currency packs that bypass weekly currency caps is putting those people of privilege with tons of disposable income ahead of everyone else way faster.

    And yes, it is indefensible when they promised that you would never pay for power in game. This IS paying for power.
    I never said I thought that the average person made $41 an hour. I don't care about the average person ... I care about MY experience.

    Well, maybe you should do a little thinking about what I said and maybe THEN you will "get it".

    Then maybe you should go start a company, hire a bunch of people and equipment, spend tens of millions of dollars and make yourself and others an MMO the way it is "supposed to be". As a business owner of a tech company, I can tell you, given your idea of what things are "supposed to be", you will fail.

    That's a load of bull, they never said "you would never pay for power in game". Not when the game was subscription based, nor when it was "free to play". You may THINK they said that, but they didn't. Even now, with the $250 pack, aside from fluff, there is still NOTHING in there that you can't get in game for free ... it just may take you longer to grind out Intel and other stuff, but you still can get it. The only exception is Loyalty, which even before this pack, you had to pay to be a Patron to get loyalty ... even if it was just 1 point every 3 hours or 50 points on a daily drop.

    But I seriously doubt that is what you are talking about. So spare me the "OMG, people are buying the best stuff with cash and there is no way that you can get that without cash" garbage. Even if the item costs Credits, you and others can STILL keep doing what people have been doing for years ... grind plat, trade plat for REX, pop REX to get Credits, buy items with Credits. You and others are just annoyed that there is a faster way.
    Retired from the forum community 12/19/2017

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