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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: State of Raiding in Rift

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post

    I'm happy a new raid is coming and like many other people... recycled content is my biggest gripe. Sadly, it's likely that we'll see more of it in the future because it saves them money and gives them more time to work on other raids, but I hope that with 10 mans being that only raids that we'll see more new than old. The same goes for dungeons.
    But isnt this the core issue - the decision to cut 20 mans has resulted in even less 10 mans than ever before and less attention to and success in raids than any year in Rifts history. Where does the money, time, and skill go for PVE raiding as they cut and cut and cut and we have little to show for it?

    The same is true of dungeons. Has there ever been a release where there have been less dungeons? No normal dungeons to gear up, few new expert ones, and intrepid just to get people off their backs. Literally, we have never had so few dungeons to do.

    And if you want to look at PVP - there is literally less content than there was before.

    Where the heck is the dev time and attention going?
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  2. #17
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    Default Things of the past

    Honestly, I still play the game and think there are aspects of it that need to be addressed.

    1. Class Balance - Literally releasing classes/souls that affect PvE, Raids, and PvP that have things overpowered are a big issue. You release Primalist souls and have 10 of them down a boss in Tier 1 raid in 11 seconds. I understand not everything can be caught on release, but really. Having rogue healers that have Life Insurance on a 30-second cooldown, whereas the other healer classes have a 1.5-minute cooldown for the rest. I understand that some classes are unique but the major abilities should be roughly similar.

    I am not sure why class balance can't be looked at. I know that resources are limited but all I see with this game is a "flavor of the month" class. Right now, it is Primalist and Rogues. I all see are people playing these classes at the moment. I know some of these classes come close when fully geared, but why not test all these specs with high-end gear, middle-tiered gear, and low-end gear before releasing.

    2. Lack of content - Yes, I know resources are limited, but when you release an expansion, you need to release content. Especially when people pay for the content in the first place. I believe this has driven a majority of the player base to other games/activities. When releasing an expansion, then taking 5-7 months to release a raid for it. That is not really gone appease the player base. I know Rift has all flavors of players and you can't make them all happy. I would say when releasing an expansion, you should have 5-6 new dungeons and a raid within 3 months.

    3. Too much RNG - I know currently, they have a method to buy tenebran engines, but when people who play a character and they got only gear and no engines or vice versa. Why not just do what was done in the past. Drop gear, then pay for the engine with marks.

    I really hope a majority of the class balance gets corrected soon, I just can't stand it anymore when guildies like playing their mage, warrior, or cleric. Then have to go well, I can't raid because of a class has 30 million buttons to press, when a rogue has 3 buttons. Or I can't play my mage because spell power does not scale properly, so unless I have high-end gear. I will re roll a rogue or a primalist so I can raid.

    I left once and only came back because my friends kept asking me, but next time I may never return. I know a lot of my guildies get very frustrated with the lack of inconsistency with this game. I know we keep telling you not to release content until it is polished and that is correct, but that does not mean just the raid. That means if you release legendary skills, please make the classes are balanced to 2-3% of each other, not 2 class 10-15% greater than the other 3.
    Last edited by Pelarmar; 08-11-2017 at 05:57 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelarmar View Post
    You release Primalist souls and have 10 of them down a boss in Tier 1 raid in 11 seconds.
    Small error, T0 boss in 11 seconds, not T1.
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  4. #19
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    I have to laugh at the class balance. Rogues that are doing more output than primy. Mages can no longer do a viable hybrid. I don't see the "flexibility to build your toon" any longer. Sure, I can do 61 harm or 61 pyro. Just like NT, rubbish! It is simply put, a lack of effort to scale the souls apporpriatly. Necro is still scaled level 60.

    Why wo we have all these souls that nobody can use? Oh, that requires effort. So delete em if they are no longer useful.

    Just who are these primy's downing a boss in a T1 in 11 seconds? Max geared and I still have my doubts. 10 God's gift to Rift players that have not one slot populated with less than BiS?

    Raids and other content labelled "Intrepid" are simply scaled to current max level repeats.
    PvP was lost in the scale back of devs and active player population is at an all time low.

    With many direction choices, I don't see the "Active Player Crisis" improving any time soon.

    I challenge the Team to come forth with content that brings peeps back and requires the addition of a minimum of 2 additional shards!!
    If they can do that, the revenue stream will support the team nicely.

  5. #20
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    Without new 20-man raids, won't be seeing any new intrepid IAs...more abandoned content.

    I miss the casual endgame content of NMT it at least kept me busy, now just minion logging.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zegapain View Post
    Without new 20-man raids, won't be seeing any new intrepid IAs...more abandoned content.

    I miss the casual endgame content of NMT it at least kept me busy, now just minion logging.
    There is still plenty of old ancient to re-hash and release as brand new IA's. Don't rush to such bold conclusions.

    -----------------------------------

    BTW - 20 mans weren't popular enough so they stopped developing them and focused their efforts on 10 man and LFR content ---- How's that LFR going? It sure seems to me that a ton of guilds are grinding out those 10 mans. Content enjoyment is at an all time high.
    [/sarcasm?]

    Everything that the "top 1% endgame raiders" were "complaining" about months ago is finally being realized by the rest of the "#community" and the forums overall atmosphere is a reflection on that. If only feedback was actually listened to back then maybe some of these issues could have been avoided; but the "Data experts" were determined to go in the direction they went, and this game has suffered because of it.
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    In all seriousness, we don't expect everyone to still be playing SFP

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMX View Post
    I don't see the "flexibility to build your toon" any longer.
    I believe initially, in an ideal situation, fragments were supposed to give us this class and toon flexibility in addition to the soul system. The whole thing was basically made to become a way for people to have more freedom in building and playing their classes.

    But that's an ideal situation we're talking about. Obviously, the RNG involved in fragment system and the way it's become the notorious plat sink that nobody needed was what screwed up the whole thing as a result. If getting rid of both these attributes isn't part of "reworking" the fragment system, then the only thing that could make it better is just getting rid of the whole thing. But if they'd turn out to be what they seemed to be, this would have been a great way to add more flexibility to the classes.
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  8. #23
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    Default Thanks for the reply Yaviey but....

    Thank you to a CM who actually addresses concerns in posts with a supportive tone.

    However- your post actually illuminates the concerns Dundare and others have outlined and questions remain. Yes- we the playerbase know how expensive games are to design, code, and produce. That said- this is a game that has only been out since 2011 and it has been through so many changes it is not the same game at launch. I understand games evolve- due to lore, money, playerbase, etc- but the core concepts should remain the same- for stability, for consistency, and for playability. Shifting those concepts is problematic. If Rift is an MMO- then be like an MMO. Otherwise stop marketing it as such. Whether or not MMOs have given way to FPS type games is irrelevant. This game was designed and marketed and built a player base as a WoW type MMO that at launch was so much more than WoW- very fresh- very innovative- with balanced soul trees that made any toon designed competitive. There was less RNG. There was more teaming. There were more world events with more punch. There was active PvP. There were all the things that appealed to raiders, as well as those who chose not to raid. So- fast forward- a lot of these things have changed or been removed or so altered they are unappealing. *This* is what needs to be fixed. It does not matter whether there is a sub base, or Free to Play model or anything like that. It matters- very much- the value in the game- as BMX pointed out. You have to inspire a player and make them care- or they will move on. Please kindle that spark again. I miss my old Rift days.
    Last edited by Andracleric; 08-11-2017 at 11:50 AM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadykadie View Post
    Defiance, Archage, Trove, Atlas Reactor and Devilian!
    Agreed, and you can add the failed End of Nations title in with the pile. Rift has been used time and again to bankroll Trion's other projects. And now you see the results, a husk of what I initially found when I/we stumbled Rift back in 1.0.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andracleric View Post
    So- fast forward- a lot of these things have changed or been removed or so altered they are unappealing. *This* is what needs to be fixed. It does not matter whether there is a sub base, or Free to Play model or anything like that. It matters- very much- the value in the game- as BMX pointed out. You have to inspire a player and make them care- or they will move on. Please kindle that spark again. I miss my old Rift days.
    Pretty much this. When I look at Steam and see what small teams or even single programmers can do, this "the industry has changed" stuff totally looses its meaning to me.

    Yes, the industry is changing, that's a fact no sane person can deny. But it surely does not mean that you have to make one bad decision after the other.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaviey View Post
    Now, in regards to the long list of raids that RIFT has released over the years, yes, it's absolutely true that times have changed. AAA MMORPGs are expensive (not just from a monetary perspective, but also in time and resources) and in its heyday, the game had much more freedom to go and do whatever. It was also a different monetary model and released during a time when MMOs were still the hot new thing.

    As times have changed, Trion has changed along with them. We went free-to-play, added a cash shop, and refocused our efforts on what our team knew to be successes. Additionally, instead of doing super mega huge content updates in the forms of expansions, we have expansions along with regular content updates.
    Unfortunately the explanation that Trion was simply "keeping up with the times" in regards to the significantly reduced content doesn't sit well for players who paid for an expansion under an arguably false pretense that the expansion would be very much deserving of the "premium" expansion label.

    Actually, Rift has always had regular content updates since the beginning. But even with regular updates being made, you cannot ignore an advertised "premium" label that has resulted in much less content being released this expansion versus previous expansions released. If there is a reason for this, then it needs to be addressed and communicated openly to the player base; they at least deserve to hear an explanation, particularly from the man himself who made the claim at the start.

    In Rift's case it is much more than just an industry change. There needs to be clear damage control measures that starts with clearing up a bad reputation and building back up a trust that has been lost.

  12. #27
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    The fragment system is only an effective way to deliver side stats. With the new system we don't need to carry 2 or 3 sets of armor and weapons in our bags, only to realize that we D/E'd a buncha items and screwed up and away went half of my tank set, half of my dps set, etc.
    Yes, the frags are roiled in slot machine mechanics that are most annoying. Yes they are an absurd plat sink. But the one benefit is no more carrying a ton of gear precariously.

    Kinda ok, I think... :/

    At this point, I can't help but to wonder if there is any real direction with the franchise. Using it to bankroll some other titles is a major gamble that could bring the franchise down and really needs to be left out of the equation at all costs! You'll only throw away a highly successful franchise for a loss of all Trion has worked so hard to bring forth.

    Dundare makes many good observations as do the many that have spoken out in this thread.

    Frankly, I do NOT see this as a bash the devs thread, whereas it is a hey get it together thread.
    I firmly believe with the right team lead in place and the current team involved, Rift can be brought back to a very highly ranked MMO. What has happened is the decisions that continue to affect the community are not being resolved and more peeps walk away due to that fact.
    Rift needs, sorely needs a team lead that understands the game from day one to take the helm and direct the development of an expansion with very low emphasis on RNG and more fresh content than we have seen lately. Get rid of the IRC system other than for mini boss farming, PERIOD. As it stands, IRC's do NOT permit peeps to repeat T1 content. (Other than Mini's)

    With that said, a VALUE packed expansion shall include the following on launch;

    1. Good story line and leveling features.
    2. New Experts (Intrepid need not apply) (One per state/province)
    3. Tier Zero raids. Shall include a 10 and a 20 man instance, repeatable with IRC's after 2 free runs
    4. PvP that is based in the new expansion zones. (PvP community was a large % of population)
    5. Zone activities (Zone Events)
    6. New IA's. (Stow the intrepid crap)
    7. Chronicles.... NEW ONES!!
    8. Resolve the souls and remove those that are no longer viable.

    Three months into the expansion;

    1. Our first T1 installment (Shall include 10 and 20 man instance)
    2. A new IA instance.
    3. A new PvP instance.
    4. Insert idea here...

    One pet peeve... I am sick to death of having to rework specs on a weekly basis. Knock off the nerfs and get your heads on your shoulders and look up the word balance in the dictionary and heed it. Fix the souls and remove non viable souls. Mage has 2 viable dps souls and all the rest are rubbish, I have to ask why is this and why is the team not willing to deal with it? Elemental lasted 15 minutes and was killed cause peeps were having fun, plain and simple.
    AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, NERF THE PRACTICE OF USING CLASS GUIDES AS NERF INSTRUCTIONS!!! FFS :/ And Tion thinks for unknown reasons this practice hasn't forced peeps to throw in the towel. IT HAS!! To say this hasn't happened, I say BALONEY SAUSAGE!!


    Yaviay, you are fairly new here and we appreciate that you are involved. So, with that said, look at the history of Rift and its story line as well as the format and play style over the "vanilla", SL, NT and now SFP/Ahnket and see the changes for yourself. We the community as someone said in a previous post can either ratify or veto what the team has brought to the table. It can and will affect the community as well as the revenue stream. Decisions that are ratified by us
    (the community) will show in active player population and cash shop purchases. If we choose to veto, Trion will see a drop in cash shop receipts and likely a drop in active population.
    I think that your position is not only necessary to communicate your findings of the vote of the people, but you are in a unique position to communicate from and for Trion to us. That's way cool, since now we have a line of communication and an opportunity to cast our votes.
    *the idea light is burning brightly*

    Thank you to all that have posted in this thread in order to give feedback that shows we care and want our game to be the best it can be! Much appreciated...

  13. #28
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    IMO

    Trion could at least rehash a few more old 20 men raids which should take a lot less resources and balance it in such a way that they offer small carrots like guaranteed Engines or dropping desirable currency like Captured Intel.

    Or

    Trion could scale up existing 10 men raids to 20-men and double the drops with say slightly improved chance of getting a conqueror or overlord gear.

    I mean even games like swtor has scalable raids (8 men-> 16 men) without too big of an imbalance of power in item drops.

    But meh at least make some challenging raids or rehash GSB/ROS/ID ect ect into 10 men version if they wants to absolutely keep away from 20-men raids.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    IMO

    Trion could at least rehash a few more old 20 men raids which should take a lot less resources and balance it in such a way that they offer small carrots like guaranteed Engines or dropping desirable currency like Captured Intel.

    Or

    Trion could scale up existing 10 men raids to 20-men and double the drops with say slightly improved chance of getting a conqueror or overlord gear.

    I mean even games like swtor has scalable raids (8 men-> 16 men) without too big of an imbalance of power in item drops.

    But meh at least make some challenging raids or rehash GSB/ROS/ID ect ect into 10 men version if they wants to absolutely keep away from 20-men raids.
    Unless something has changed with the base of the game since Fortress event first came in this expansion, which I haven't seen any indication off, considering the possibility of footholds in VP having same issues, they can't make 20 mans anymore. Even 10 mans are already reaching the HP cap, roughly 2.1bil (32bit signed int).

    Also having more 10 mans or hypoteticaly 20 mans won't solve much. Yes you'll have another instance to go to, but Trion seems to be happy with the tuning of raids and classes. This means that anything new that comes will be completed within hours and that will be it. Gone are the days of weeks/months of progression and wiping. And by the looks of it they won't be coming back and I expect the bar to be lowerd even more with time.

    No one cares if top players can do 2-3x the required dps in raids or why most of the targeted raiding population seems to be able to pull that little for the dps checks to be so low.

  15. #30
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    The dev here basically said that MMO's are dead and why bother spending all that time and money on a dead genre... it could not be more clear, why are you still playing this game, and if you are why do you expect fresh content when we've told you it's not something we spend a lot of time and effort on providing? Fair enough, we've been warned...
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