Rift going downhill fast !

[Rivkah]

Without addressing the state of the game...
Just saying that Steam's opinions are probably the least valuable of all Rift players.
Steam, by its nature, is more used by people who play a lot of games over short period of times... People having libraries of hundreds(thousands ) of games, etc...

For these people, a game that last years with not so much change (i.e. an MMO) will not be as popular. I'm sure the reviews of the non-steam players would be better than the steam ones, if only because steam players, on average, are more commonly game-hoppers.

I think the opinions of people who play more games might even be MORE valuable because they have a wide diversity of experience with different dev styles and game types. I'm one of those people with over 100 games in my library, and it has been quite eye-opening.

The lack of bugs in many other games often feels like a breath of fresh air after doing, for example, a daily where 80% of the mobs are LoS'd (VP healing daily, I'm lookin' at you!). The level of communication and engagement some developers have with their community also makes me understand how much the Rift community has been getting the shaft (until very recently when a critical mass of criticism finally forced staff changes). I see one-person indie devs communicating and personally bug fixing games on a timescale that I just don't see on Rift anymore. I see games where all you have to do to get the important gear is kill the boss. Not kill the boss hundreds of times and have to pay extra for the gear, just kill the boss and get the item. After being nickel and dimed to get ANYWHERE in terms of gear, it feels miraculous now only having to kill something once to get what I need. It's nice seeing things from the POV of the general gamer community instead of someone who has been isolated in just one MMO for years. It makes me see the things other games are doing well and makes me wish that those things were done as well in Rift, too.

I think the opinions of people who have played more than just one game all the time are extremely relevant. Plus, it's a huge storefront. We should care about the reviews there because it might scare away new players or attract them.

[dundare]

Just to add some context to this thread here, having worked on several game titles that went to Steam, this is unfortunately just one of those things that happens. Steam reviews in general are hard to gauge (or other review sites where a large quantity of people can submit their votes) due to a fair mix of trolling, misunderstandings, not having realistic expectations of a game before downloading, among other things. We don't feel that the Steam reviews themselves are an accurate assessment of the quality of the game, nor that it is as you said, "going downhill fast." In fact, with our very recent game update for 4.2 Celestial Storm, we've seen a nice bump in number of players. That being said, we are continuing to monitor the feedback on Steam, as well as on the forums to plan ahead for upcoming changes we can make to help the game stay fun and engaging for players over time.

Welcome aboard.

I think as a company you guys are way to quick to say this is how all games go, this is a cycle, every game experiences player flight at times, etc etc. I know you are very new, but the company is whistling past the graveyard as things continue to go downhill.

[Haruchai]

People like to bring up steam charts often as "accurate population numbers". I don't think anyone can refute that the playerbase isn't as big as it once was in comparison (key words there) to Vanilla and Storm Legion, but the game still has plenty of people playing it, enjoying it and supporting it or we wouldn't see any content coming at all and it would be dead like warhammer. Rift was never a steam game to begin with and most people never have and still don't launch it through steam.

Unhappy players tend to be the loudest even if they're the minority. I'll reiterate that if this game were really as bad as some people complain then it wouldn't be around at all. As I always say though, not everyone's complaints are invalid and some people do give legitimate criticism, but they at least keep it constructive.

Sorry but I disagree, there are not "plenty" of people playing Rift, there are "some" people playing Rift and less than there was a few months ago. You seem to be bouncing from one side of the fence to the other and in the end don't say anything at all. Steam is a cross-section of a portion of the playerbase, when taken that it will not be definitive, it is still relevant sans any other kind of listing of playerbase numbers, which Trion is very careful not to reveal.

The statement that unhappy players tend to be the loudest may be true to an extent, though I have seen no confirmation of this anywhere, but when you get down to it, what has there been for those that "like" Rift to come on to the forums and cheer about? Deliberately op'ing everyone to the point that most do double or more of the required dps for any content is only a short term buffer and inevitably leads to more being unhappy than happy with the game. Frankly all the increases and the extent of them makes it feel like a fire sale to me. Some will stay due to how the game "was", not how it is, in the forlorn hope that it will somehow return to its former glory. There are plenty of bad games that remain active, I get the sense you haven't been mmo'ing for long as some of your comments seem naïve from a gaming perspective.

There are no "invalid" complaints from a business perspective, just white knights trying to tear down someone their paranoia tells them is trying to destroy the game they play.

Rift has become mediocre in my opinion and this is reflected in the playerbase numbers and the feel of the game. Expect a lot more of the content to require irc's as shown by the new Raid Rifts, Mini Bosses (NMTD) etc as Trion needs to milk the remaining playerbase due to them being unable to entice any reasonable amount of new players into Rift.

Regardless of the rhetoric from the new CM, Trion will always try to portray an image of a healthy, happy, increasing playerbase and that the future looks rosy, this is simply business, it doesn't necessarily mean its true.

[Rivkah]

The statement that unhappy players tend to be the loudest may be true to an extent, though I have seen no confirmation of this anywhere,

100% This. Though unhappy players will be vocal, on Steam I also see the opposite. There are plenty of games on Steam that have extremely high "Overwhelmingly Positive" ratings and pages upon pages of happy players eagerly recommending the game. People also want to recommend games they feel are worthwhile to their friends.

Usually when I buy games with ratings like that (granted that they're the kind of game I enjoy), they turn out to be great gaming experiences and I leave a positive rating and recommend it to people I know might be interested, if not gift it to them directly.

If a game is great and worth it, I'll gladly shout its praises and recommend it. Rift in its current state isn't there, but it could be with more positive changes and better direction. I have yet to see it doing that, unfortunately.

[Laeti]

The amount of trolling and nonsensical reviews on Steam (for any game, not just Rift or just MMOs) is high enough to scare off new players and actually hurt some games, especially indies, to the point when devs just stop working on them. You can't say all complaints are valid when some people post bad reviews simply because they don't even like the type of game they've just played (or bought a game without even knowing what it's about) and wanted to share their priceless opinion on it. Hell some people were actually disappointed that Goat Simulator isn't realistic and doesn't have a storyline, I mean come on.

You guys seem to completely miss the important parts

...due to a fair mix of trolling, misunderstandings, not having realistic expectations of a game before downloading, among other things...


...We don't feel that the Steam reviews themselves are an accurate assessment of the quality of the game...

...we are continuing to monitor the feedback on Steam...

Nobody said that Steam reviews are all invalid - but yes, some of them are. Would it be wise to judge the game only by Steam reviews? Really?
Nobody says Steam pop ratings aren't to be considered - but yes, judging it only by Steam is strange, it doesn't represent the whole population nor it's in any way accurate statistically. Personally I've been playing Rift through Steam maybe for a year or so, until I no longer needed to, however I still play it via Glyph - so Steam "lost" me as a player but Rift hasn't. I doubt I'm the only one - but I'm also not saying that this is the only thing affecting the population (that would be silly, I'm simply pointing out that Steam charts aren't 100% accurate).

It just seems odd that everyone's so quick to get into an argument when there was no argument to begin with.

[arus2001]

I see similar when it comes to Diablo 3 and people trying to utilize Twitch streamers as a metric of popularity. Just as not everyone watches other people play games, not everyone has accessed Rift through Steam or perhaps readily thinks to if they're only just now hearing about the game. Only Trion really knows how many people are playing, for how long, and at what times.

Relative to feedback, sometimes you get people that just quietly go. They may not always be able to pin down just what it was that led to their leaving, either. Then again, it might not have been a fault of the game itself. Personally, I haven't played in a long while. A contributing factor was some hardware issues, but there are also some persistently stubborn traits one could attribute to the MMO genre as a whole that I really wish would change, or more crudely, die. I've vocalized such things to varying degrees in the past, but I'd say that overall lack of change is why I didn't pick up the latest expansion or even delve too deep into NT post-leveling.

Unfortunately, I can't really think of a dev team anywhere that would want to take the time and sit down with players like myself to figure out what's up. I may occasionally hear about things like focus groups/testing, but is that just like grabbing a dozen people off the streets who've possibly never played a MMO ever in CA or what? Not a lot of good that does me here in OH, in any event. I know Trion's sent surveys from time to time in the past, but most often they're relative to topics I don't want to talk about or have no interest in. Token replies like, "We value your feedback!" or "We're always watching!" have just led me to cynicism when you see problems persist or questionable decisions get made after the fact. "Making a game is hard!" someone in the biz might say, and I'm not going to disagree. I guess somewhere along the way, it feels more like gaming has become about the customer's money rather than the customer.

Oh well, enough late night tangent for me.

[karlxii]

So if only the disappointed are the loudest and do reviews ? how come Neverwinter catch up from mixed to very positive in the recent reviews ?? thing is Rift in its core is a much better game than Neverwinter in my opinion ! my conclusion, Trion fail to capitalise in the right way on this fantastic product of thiers ? ! what else could be the cause of this ? I tried numerous times to leave Rift , tried Neverwinter, Eso, Archeage etc.. not one of them could replace Rift especially the pvp part who Trion now have neglected far to long ! with this fantastic game comes large amounts of frustration and disappointment that's for sure but still is No.1 for me !

[somerandomnamee]

Nice theory ! I do not think there is a big difference at all, a gamer is a gamer is a gamer ! those without steam accounts might use origin etc.., or collect physical copies of games in their home what's really the difference ? It`s pretty stupid to just wave of a large portion of the community cause they play trough a client that offers non Trion games ain´t it ? the health of the game is indeed reflected on steam even tough there are many playing outside steam it gives a hint of the overall state of it ! I´m concerned about this game I like it , got 3k + hours on it and am started on black tier loyalty ! I´m not here trying to hurt it , quite the opposite !

I don't think you get my point.
To make an analogy : If you were to poll people at a concert about the band they're listening to, they'd give higher rankings than if you were to poll people who downloaded the band's song or listened to it on youtube.

Even if both groups intersect (the concert-goers also watch stuff on youtube and the youtuber-listeners also go to concerts).

But the youtube crowd listened to this song and probably million others, while the concert crowd probably don't go to a million concerts so this band is most likely among their favorites. Hence the 2 groups of people who listened to the same stuff would give them different rankings.

Similar situation with Steam/Non-steam players.

[riftloreseeker]

another 'sky is falling' message. so far, i have no problems getting groups to do group content. with that being said. imo - to me, the game is alive and kicking for now. players today rush through and they whine about no new content. it takes the time and resources to develop new content. instead of whining, complaining, degrading, why don't you campaign or promotion the game to get more players to play to get more money to get more resources to develop more content faster.

some of the you should share the blame for decreasing the population with your trolling and degrading. robbing rift of money and resources and making trion to decide on budget cutting or dime and nickle pinching desperate business decisions.

[fantasyy]

players today rush through and they whine about no new content. it takes the time and resources to develop new content.

we've been asking for almost 4 years for non-recycled content.

crucia has been Call of the Ascended'd thrice now. there are a grand total of four (afaik) new armor looks for each class (plate, chain, leather, cloth), ok, granted, there's lots of new types of enemy mobs. and a few empty zones (freemarch has more character than scathheran forest and gedlo badlands combined. well the dragon skull is cool, but i digress)

but other than that, whats new?

remember, this was supposed to be a PAID expansion. what did you pay for? recycled content?

since the game is back to F2P, what do you think the new raid will be called?

I bet on Return to Intrepid Drowned Halls.

Mark my words.

[Ewa]

Completely disagree with original thread.

Just went 4/4 IROPT and 3/4 TD NM last night. I'm really enjoying the game and 4.2 update. It was really fun to see TD as a challenge. Already got 3 new essences from Raid Rifts, Two of which are Crit Power and will keep.

Thanks DEVS for the hardwood, keep it up.

[riftloreseeker]

we've been asking for almost 4 years for non-recycled content.

crucia has been Call of the Ascended'd thrice now. there are a grand total of four (afaik) new armor looks for each class (plate, chain, leather, cloth), ok, granted, there's lots of new types of enemy mobs. and a few empty zones (freemarch has more character than scathheran forest and gedlo badlands combined. well the dragon skull is cool, but i digress)

but other than that, whats new?

remember, this was supposed to be a PAID expansion. what did you pay for? recycled content?

since the game is back to F2P, what do you think the new raid will be called?

I bet on Return to Intrepid Drowned Halls.

Mark my words.

the content designs and decisions are based money, resources, and time. you do not know what kind of budget and resources rift has. it is dependent on patrons, the whaling minority. not like WoW's huge budget and resources with millions of subs to back it up and develop anything.

[Linolea]

Completely disagree with original thread.

Just went 4/4 IROPT and 3/4 TD NM last night. I'm really enjoying the game and 4.2 update. It was really fun to see TD as a challenge. Already got 3 new essences from Raid Rifts, Two of which are Crit Power and will keep.

Thanks DEVS for the hardwood, keep it up.

So you have virtually all new content on farm already ... a few days into the content patch.

Now the gap between those willing to swipe their credit card and free players so huge I have lost all interest in competing for BiS items and I won't pay into the system until the situation improves.

Clearly you failed to understand Holyrollers' verbose arguments that Rift is not P2W. Obviously that is on you ;-)

If you pay me some IRC I shall be happy to explain it >.>

[Ongar]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SiN#Reception

vs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-L...ion_and_legacy

do you see any game breaking bugs in HL's article?

you have a pretty ****ed up worldview if you think that people should should equate SiN with Half Life. Activision had to send out patches via CD's to make the game playable.

Perhaps if they hadnt rushed out the game, and finished it before shipping, they could have had a better reception?

I feel there are very important lessons to be learnt here, and you've skipped them all.

Thx for underlining my point.

Temporary issues like bugs eventually go away, while features, content and innnovations remain, however initial bad reviews remain as well.

Nowadays if you have an ugly bug in your game there are people out there that give you a 0/10. And if that bug is fixed a week later people wont adjust their rating. And thats one of the main reasons why (user) reviews are problematic.

[Lulutala]

Rift has been on a steady decline for years now, partly i’d assume that comes with age but certainly decisions made by Trion have affected the population/image of the game. Things like steam charts alone don't mean much as most won't use steam once they have glyph installed, but it does show a slow decline in "new blood" as i guess most people will find rift through the free to play/mmo section of steam.

There's a lack of interest overall with Rift, nobody seems interested in making content for youtube anymore be it guide writers, lets plays or pvp stuff. Twitch also suffers similar interest, Seshatar is probably the biggest remaining streamer for Rift and when i check he's around 20-30 people, which is incredibly low for the top streamer on an mmo. Kudos to him for sticking around though, he probably brings in more people than any marketing that has been done on the game recently. Hell even the forums themselves feel like a ghost town in comparison to previous xpacs, many parts that had discussions throughout each day can now go several days without a single comment.

If a new potential player is checking out the game and see all these avenues of content for the game are lacking, it suggests that the community is too small or nobody is interested in covering the game and it probably puts off alot of people from the get go.

This expansion was probably a huge disappointment for most, so little content added, stuff was questionably removed, bugs galore that to this day haven't been fixed (crashes in warfronts for example still persist every single day taking out half of your group at the same time, stability in an activity in the game isn't a priority apparently).

Dev resources seemed to be wasted on many things, LFR was supposedly alot of work and does it get used? Apparently not as most form groups in chat just like before. Fragments system was originally abysmal but it got reworked into just being terrible, now after over half a year of more of the same feedback it's again got to be reworked.

Let's be real, if this is what we got with a paid expansion, with probably the lowest population this game has ever had, what do people expect to happen when time for a gear reset comes around? Maybe 5 man raiding will be the new thing.

In fact, with our very recent game update for 4.2 Celestial Storm, we've seen a nice bump in number of players. That being said, we are continuing to monitor the feedback on Steam, as well as on the forums to plan ahead for upcoming changes we can make to help the game stay fun and engaging for players over time.

Nice to see that Rift finally has a dedicated CM, that being said and don't take offence to this as it applies to all devs/cm in any game, but you saying that that theres a "nice bump" or any dev stating the game is doing good means literally nothing, as if they were to post the opposite even if it was true I doubt they would be kept around.