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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Is Balancing Done? or whats happening Rift Crew?

  1. #1
    Telaran MakeClericsGreatAgain's Avatar
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    Default Is Balancing Done? or whats happening Rift Crew?

    First ill go over what's completely obvious to any rift player right now that understands the game or has been around to know at least a little bit about most classes.
    ====> Blatantly obvious how strong rogues (worst offenders), warriors and primalists are compared to Mages and Clerics.

    From seeing and playing with high end players that do 800k-1.2 mil + on IRotp bosses you can generally get the idea of where balancing sits right now. Rogues especially are an iwin rift kind of class right now- where the more of them you have in your raids the better your chances are because they are about 25% stronger and better at what they do when it comes to dps (I wont go into healing because that's getting abit of a nerf so we will have to see) We can call this Rift- Rogue edition because ALOT have rerolled into rogue due to how easy and rewarding it is.

    So I just would like to ask the dev team or what the thoughts are on Balancing, is it finished? Are you honestly happy with how things are or calling it good enough and off to lunch? Mages and Clerics are quite a big chunk behind the other classes- they have to work 3 times as hard and have gear and stats two to three times better just to stay competitive. Rogues are pretty much THE easiest things to play right now with a spray of numbers for no work what soever that will keep you on the top of the DPS meters --- and no It wont make any difference if the mages or clerics in your raid have 2-3 times better gear /fragments than you... they just cant keep up even with flawless rotations on their best souls.

    Why is there such a big difference or a gap... Competition is a fun and big part of raiding for a lot of people but its really sad to see top 3 classes injected with steroids while you hobble the bottom two so they cant keep up no matter how good they are or how well geared.

    Having the best of the best on any Irotp boss fights you will see breakdowns like this -> Rogues / Warriors 1.1mil-1.2 mil . Prima's 900-1.1m (rarely goes to 1.2+) Meanwhile Clerics - at about 750-800. Mages about 750-800 (can be slightly higher with Blademark target- which is mostly fluff cleave dmg that doesn't last long)
    Last edited by MakeClericsGreatAgain; 06-18-2017 at 10:01 AM.

  2. #2
    Rift Master The Raki's Avatar
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    Trion doesn't believe in upgrading your calling to match others. If you want to do the same DPS as rogues/primalist you will have to start demanding they be nerfed. Then your whole raid can't crack a mil.

  3. #3
    Telaran MakeClericsGreatAgain's Avatar
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    If people read carefully, I'm not asking for nerfs here. I'm asking for balance which is only fair, how the Rift crew gets that sorted is on them. I don't have much control over that except me pointing out the reality and results of their last balancing decisions.

    When I see things like -Warriors and Rogues for life- under our balancing devs signature it doesn't give me a warm comforting feeling, especially since those happen to be the best performing classes right now. But id like to think that's only a coincidence and I really hope that Keyens has a look at the balance once more without any bias at all.

    There isn't much fun left in the game for me personally its all about excessive grind or opening up your wallet for charges, the fun part of competition for best dps in raids right now is non existant because its obvious which classes are struggling and which can top the charts with their eyes closed.
    Last edited by MakeClericsGreatAgain; 06-18-2017 at 10:24 AM.

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    shp
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    I play this game since closed beta, mained both cleric and rogue and I can tell you one thing that has never changed and never will: rogues will be always on top, clerics always at the bottom with mages and warriors in between. This is how it's been in RIFT since 2010.

  5. #5
    Telaran MakeClericsGreatAgain's Avatar
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    You are missing the point, what I'm talking about here is the gap between the top and bottom dps classes... its not a small one ... the classes aren't even in the same league at the moment. Even if you happen to accept and say things like -well that's the way things are and have always been. Don't you think they should all be more or less close to each other in performance? even if some are a slightly ahead.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by shp View Post
    I play this game since closed beta, mained both cleric and rogue and I can tell you one thing that has never changed and never will: rogues will be always on top, clerics always at the bottom with mages and warriors in between. This is how it's been in RIFT since 2010.
    Sounds a bit like - drop a cleric for a rogue makes every raid much better

  7. #7
    Ascendant Boase's Avatar
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    I'm guessing they are saving more "big changes" to come with 4.2 so the patch notes are larger.


    Still can't wait for the new primalist souls and a new raid at the same time


    For real though I think Cleric and Mage changes are coming but since its basically one person working on all souls he needs to finish the Primalist souls first.

  8. #8
    Ascendant forbiddenlake's Avatar
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    balancing is literally never done

  9. #9
    Rift Master The Raki's Avatar
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    If people read carefully, I'm not asking for nerfs here.
    I'm a little bitter but in the past this is the only way to get on an even keel. In the past Warriors have been top DPS. Until the community yells nerf, which happens, and puts Rogue back on top. It has happened every time Warriors get a leg up. I used to fight the good fight. Asking why they don't buff certain souls to put them even with Warrior. Why do they have to nerf us instead? Alas it seems thats how Trion works.

    On a side note. Those dev's with "warrior and rogues for life" (I'm not sure which you refer to) may be a dev that works on those 2 callings. Even though internally I believe Trion has their favorites it would be bad business to put it out there like "this is what we intend".

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    According to responses on my thread earlier today, even the top content "isn't a super tight dps/healing check right now," so it's totally fine to be a mage without Arb/Harb, pulling half the DPS of a rogue. Such a player could "perform well enough in all game activities," and damage boosts would merely be "helpful."

    So don't worry! Everything is fine.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker Hectyr's Avatar
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    Class balance affects ALL players- with the possible exceptions of those only interested in crafting, dimensions, or RP (and those interested ONLY in those activities are a diminutive minority I would wager.)

    So class balance should be a top priority in a game of this sort as it applies to both raiders, pvpers, and the types who enjoy all/most activities.

    For example, I don't pvp as much as I once did, but still enjoy it. I'm SO tired of playing paragon so I rarely do so anymore. Does this make me a liability to a team if I choose to ignore the current metas? Well, in my case I judge the "fun factor" involved. Why would I choose to select the current overperforming specs if they diminish the fun involved altogether?

    Dimensioneers have been catered to this expac- which is great, I heartily endorse any/all players to receive support for their chosen favorite activities. This is what confuses me- why isn't class/soul balance receiving more attention considering the VAST majority of players to which it applies?

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    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Problem is clerics and mages normally aren't the top dps, so in turn they should be the best healers/support - which was the case in NMT.

    Clerics - Purifier BiS Tank healer
    Clerics - Defiler, always needed one for a raid for links etc, now it's non-existent.
    Clerics - Oracle for a long time was preferred over bard as it did more dps, and more shielding.

    Mage - Chloromancer, BiS raid healer for NMT during HK (Padding on adds OP). Did damage, brought living energy, brought wild growth, very good spec.

    Mage - Harbchon, BiS Support, amazing DPS while bringing all archon/bm buffs required for an average raid.


    Currently:

    Tank healing doesn't exist, so RiP Puri, but even if it did - Preserver is BiS tank healer.
    Defiler & links don't exist anymore either so rip Defiler.
    Bard got buffed really really really really hard, zero incentive to bring an oracle now so rip Oracle.

    Chloromancer lost Wild Growth. Living Energy is no longer needed as a standard thing in raids anymore. Doesn't provide mitigation and top HPS/APS, so rip Chloro.

    Harbchon got nuked, however 61 Archon is still BiS support, being 350k-400k DPS. However Mystic will be the new BiS support.

    So as it stands cleric is in rip mode, mage is almost in rip mode, rogues have the best heals (bout to get nerfed), rogues have the best dps, rogues have the best support, warriors *will* have the best heals, primalist *will* have the best support & dps & tank (lol prima tank will be SOOOOOO broken in 4.2) mage is just going to be in rip zone along with cleric.

    Munchmatoast - Primalist - Deepwood - -Lemme Smash-

    R.I.P <Coriolis> R.I.P <Mate>

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    I think it's understandable that Keyen is busy with Primalist Souls atm, but any mention of future balancing plans would be nice at this point. It's a bit demoralizing playing cleric atm, which has been my main since launch. I can still compete, but if I was a rogue with the same gear I'd be doing way more damage than I currently do.

    Also agree wholeheartedly with you Gilgad...I'm a little sad to see the design direction taken in such a way where they take away what makes certain souls unique in the name of "Bring the player not the class", but then balance in such a way that there is huge incentive to bring a certain class (rogue) anyways.
    Last edited by Vetheax; 06-18-2017 at 08:18 PM.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Linolea's Avatar
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    What sort of range are people asking for? And are we talking ST or cleave, which is not important in many fights? Are we comparing melee and ranged specs? Cleric melee is pulling good numbers as far as I have seen (I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination).

    Bear in mind also that the 10% band they were allegedly aiming for becomes a bigger band as DPS rises. Plus or minus 10% is 200k DPS if you are at 1MDPS, or 100k DPS if you take it to mean the entire range of damage.

    Part of the reason rogues have been doing well is that the IRotP fights are melee friendly. Drop us to range and see how well we go ...

    TL: DNR Balancing is hard, no really. It is like the word "fair" in economics. There is no fair in economics, only the weather is fair. (Prof M Rieber circa 1989, and before, no doubt).

    PS> I am sure the bard and NB nerfs are coming very soon, at which point people will want rogues for? Given how the nerfs tend to swing way too hard every time.
    Last edited by Linolea; 06-18-2017 at 09:12 PM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetheax View Post
    I think it's understandable that Keyen is busy with Primalist Souls atm, but any mention of future balancing plans would be nice at this point. It's a bit demoralizing playing cleric atm, which has been my main since launch. I can still compete, but if I was a rogue with the same gear I'd be doing way more damage than I currently do.
    Of course it's understandable that he's busy. He's doing it all alone. What isn't understandable is that they choose to let players get fed up and let them leave instead of just getting the dev some help. Clearly this is the issue of the game that stings players the most and there's bound to be someone on the team that is skilled enough to help out.

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