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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Regarding RIFT 4.1: Hotfix #6 5/3/2017

  1. #31
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    You know what would be fun? Large scale pvp content between, let's say, three factions. We can scatter objectives around the map and the factions can fight for control of these objectives, which correlate to control of the map itself. A turf war so to speak.

    We'll need a large setting for this gameplay. A map area many players might be familiar with. Hmm...how about Stillmoor? Stillmoor is a large map with castles to add some flair to the pvp environment. And not to mention the massive crater in the middle!

    What do you guys think? Does that sound like fun? And I have a great name for it. Short and sweet.

    Conquest.
    Last edited by LucKeyHoleInOne; 05-04-2017 at 05:02 PM.

  2.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #32
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    As noted in the excerpt from the chat that Boase posted, Port Scion was not reinabled with yesterday's patch. This was not a mistake. This was not a knee jerk reaction. This was a planned retirement of the warfront. A retirement that dated back to pre-4.0 launch when we decided to go with a warfront rotation. Port Scion was effectively pulled from activity at that point and was never going to be live again... at least not without a considerable overhaul in which the objectives and mechanics were drastically changed.

    With a game as large and diverse as RIFT, when a decision is made to no longer support certain content, it does bear a price in that there are sure to be several people that really, really enjoyed that content. So, when we make such decisions, they aren't made lightly nor do they go uncontested within the team. Because just as there are many of you that would be vocal advocates for features of RIFT and their future, those are mirrored on our team when we discuss them internally. The decision to continue supporting Port Scion was certainly talked about quite a bit. Many mirroring some of the comments here such as it being their favorite warfront.

    However, part of my job as Lead Designer for RIFT is to determine what game play we want to support going forward and what we aren't going to support anymore. I look at all of the aspects of the content in terms of what sort of return on investment would we gain for our time spent updating and maintaining it. What does this cost us in terms of other content that we won't be able to support or develop because we have resources dedicated to other projects?

    So, here's my take on why I chose to retire Port Scion last year:

    1) I knew that we were going to bring back PVP gear. PVE gear would not be BiS and if you wanted to have the best PVP gear, it came from PVP. This is something that the PVP community had been asking for so we brought it back. Port Scion was a PVP map that was heavily dependent upon PVE gear and knowledge to succeed. It is the only one of our maps that had such a requirement so it was out of place with our vision going forward.

    2) The burden of knowledge coupled with the PVE win conditions of the warfront meant that most games were frustrating to players who had not done the warfront many times over. This was actually a large part of why we chose to start with a warfront rotation to begin with so that players could see a warfront more frequently during a "season" thus they would have more opportunity to master it. Even with being in a more frequent rotation, I didn't feel that the enjoyment level of this warfront would increase but instead result in more people taking deserter debuff because of my next point.

    3) Average match time of Port Scion was much, much longer than the MAX match time of every other warfront. With a 45 minute max timer, games on average were much longer than a normal warfronts that have a 15 minute max timer. Folks care about favor per hour so after the initial clashes at the bridge, the losing side usually took a deserter debuff and moved on to other warfronts if they were trying to be as efficient as possible. The reduction in time later on made for more of a PVE race condition where there was minimal conflict.

    4) Finally, we would have to rebalance the PVE aspect of a PVP warfront. This isn't a small task. You don't just make the mobs level 70 and call it a day. As such, it meant that I would have to assign resources to make sure it was complete and that would come at no small cost. Other features would get cut or put on hold. When you look at all of the previous points and try to make a case for keeping Port Scion or retiring it... that's the deciding factor in why the choice was made.

    So, while folks might want to over simplify my words as "Vladd didn't like it", I hope you all now see get a glimpse of how every decision comes with a lot of deliberation and choices about what we feel is best for RIFT.
    Lead Designer - RIFT


  3. #33
    Plane Touched Rivkah's Avatar
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    Wasn't the port scion timer already reduced before it got taken down? I could have sworn that it was only 15 to 20 minutes or so at last iteration.

    Why not simply remove some of the pve mobs or tweak the objectives to make it easier instead of just nuking it all?

    And why not discuss these deliberations with those of us who PVP before making the choice for us and having to be called out on it on the forums? The PVP community has a lot of active members who would be happy to suggest ways of keeping it, yet removing the troublesome elements.

  4.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #34
    Director of Community Relations TrionBrasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivkah View Post
    Why not simply remove some of the pve mobs or tweak the objectives to make it easier instead of just nuking it all?
    Vladd posted the answer immediately before your question:
    "4) Finally, we would have to rebalance the PVE aspect of a PVP warfront. This isn't a small task. You don't just make the mobs level 70 and call it a day. As such, it meant that I would have to assign resources to make sure it was complete and that would come at no small cost. Other features would get cut or put on hold. When you look at all of the previous points and try to make a case for keeping Port Scion or retiring it... that's the deciding factor in why the choice was made."

    These are never easy decisions, but there simply are not the resources to devote. One should never say NEVER, but it is definitely not in the forseeable future, which is filled with 4.2 development.
    I am a huge fan of PvP as well, so I'll wait and watch too, but I also recognize that RIFT is and always will be primarily a PvE game.

    Brasse

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    1)
    2)
    3)
    4)
    TL;DR: Vladd didn't like it.

    Joking aside but number 1) and 3) are more or less made up.
    1) Bolstering in pvp so it falls completly into 4)
    3) what Rikvah said timer was already reduced and the last games of Port Scion I played not even lasted 10 mins.

    2) sounds reasonable and 4) is really hard like quite a bit of base population in SP still has "wrong" hp numbers together with regulary failing of the hp scaling tech it`s not nice to watch.
    Last edited by SFBETA; 05-04-2017 at 05:52 PM.

  6.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #36
    Director of Community Relations TrionBrasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makerofwidows View Post
    Thank you for confirmation on a rift associated site and not some random 3rd party channel. Another reason discussion should be kept here, sad to see some can't be bothered to bring Rift news to rift forums.
    Folks, there are many places where you will find RIFT news. In addition to the forums, many Devs are active on Twitter. Many are active on Discord. Some comment on Reddit. Some hang out in Twitch chats. Many may give comments in interviews to fan sites, podcasts and livestreams or even in person to players at conventions. In other words, forums are only one source of information, but by no means the only source.

    In the case of Discord chat, Clowd of TheGharStation.com goes to great pains to parse the text and puts together terrific Dev roundups, which he then shares on his site and links to the forums. You may want to bookmark his site and read them!
    =)
    Brasse

  7. #37
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    "Rift is a mostly PvE game" is something i have seen on the forums and heard on live streams at least 4-5 times, and if i can be honest, it makes angry. I get it, more people PvE than PvP but it is still a huge part of the game. Pvp was the only thing that kept me in the game in the lull of content pre Starfall. I was so happy to see these maps coming back but a little heartbroken Port Scion wasn't part of it. I'm not sure all the points made were totally viable that Vladd made. Most have a fix, they might not be totally easy, but i can't see them being undoable if people want the match back. Make the mobs easier/have less of them, lower the timer to something doable, make it go to 500 points?

    Why not do what you did with the LFR menu that shows how to do each boss for pvp and give an easy guide for each map.

    You shouldn't punish people that enjoy pvp for people who get frustrated because they arent willing to give it the time it takes to learn it.

    I don't know the numbers for pvp vs pve in the game. I don't know anything but what i feel and have seen in game, and that's saddness/frustration that sometimes pvp is the stepchild of rift, and gets left behind.

    Its not all bad. I like that gear was reintroduced. I like more maps being made. But i would like to see the ranks go higher (200) and more achievements. It might not be the most popular thing in game with all players, but people still love it, most of whom will never post on the forums about it.
    Dimension: Missilluzion@Grerybriar - Not So Dormant Core
    Dimension: Missilluzion@Grerybriar - Illuzion's Ark

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    Vladd posted the answer immediately before your question:
    "4) Finally, we would have to rebalance the PVE aspect of a PVP warfront. This isn't a small task. You don't just make the mobs level 70 and call it a day. As such, it meant that I would have to assign resources to make sure it was complete and that would come at no small cost. Other features would get cut or put on hold. When you look at all of the previous points and try to make a case for keeping Port Scion or retiring it... that's the deciding factor in why the choice was made."

    These are never easy decisions, but there simply are not the resources to devote. One should never say NEVER, but it is definitely not in the forseeable future, which is filled with 4.2 development.
    I am a huge fan of PvP as well, so I'll wait and watch too, but I also recognize that RIFT is and always will be primarily a PvE game.

    Brasse
    There have been countless times where the community had more interest in pvp then pve. The ones that have spent over 1000$.

    For example, pre hexathel and post hexathel flop. Perfect opportunity to emphasise on pvp when there were so many players doing it.

    You hear and read all the cries for class balance, its mainly from the pvpers. You hear about cries for more content in general, its from the pvpers, i could go on but it would have been smart to put more focus into pvp, as balancing and making pvp more fun helps PVE frustration and frustration overall in the game.

    Plenty more to say, but am on my lunch break so rippers.

  9. #39
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    ...I still don't get it...

    I would rather play the "old" Port Scion, re-enabled as-is, no dev-time except from "switching it on", then no Port Scion at all.

    All we want is to be fooled into believing the game isn't left to bleed to death. What is going to be done with the big grey area on the map? New players will investigate and are going to find out how broken it is. I love the idea of turning it into real accessible free-for-all open world PVP zone.
    Last edited by Xlavius; 05-04-2017 at 11:34 PM.

  10. #40
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    2 ties in ****ty tomb, one day. Tie does count as a lose, reducing win rate.
    Retire tomb, and bring back scion.
    This is OUR wish.
    Sheona/Faynee <VANEN> , <Apotheosys>

    Frostkeeper adventures on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xNLm0Ckoss

  11. #41
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    The trouble is most PvP gamers tend to complain a lot but refuse to buy anything (IE; support the game) The ussuall argument I see and it appears often is, "Untill they improve PvP I'm not giving Trion any of my cash." Yet they never consider that Trion need money to pay the development team to make PvP better so unless you're willing to support the game your complaints will be falling on deaf ears. Money talks louder than words after all.

    Well anyway, just my two cents on the subject

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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honoun View Post
    Yet they never consider that Trion need money to pay the development team to make PvP better so unless you're willing to support the game your complaints will be falling on deaf ears. Money talks louder than words after all.
    PvP'rs also spent 40$/60$ on the game, they really didnt need the xpac to pvp, since there isnt even a L70 only PvP roster, its L65-L70, and only a bit of an advantage with the legendary stuff.
    They really didnt need to buy the xpac yet they did, isnt that supporting the game?
    also they mostly have bought all the soulpacks there are, isnt that supporting the game on its own accord?

    Also after seeing their spent money not getting anywhere, and the maps they enjoy getting removed and not returned because a Dev or two say it wasnt fun and also a lot of effort for them, well, how do you think people would be interested in "supporting" more? they've already supported the game quite more than fine enough on their own accord, and they havent seen the correct response that would have satisfied them, and as so, well, they have the rights to take up on such.

  13. #43
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    The PvP population of the game is miniscule if the server population of Seastone is any indication. It may well be true that some PvP gamers do actually spend money on the game. However due to the fact that there are way fewer of them compared to the rest of us what they contribute is small by comparison. It therefore is very important that more of them support the game when they can. Of course I'm just guessing here, but it stands to reason that the few who spend $40 will always be less than the many who spend the same.

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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honoun View Post
    The PvP population of the game is miniscule if the server population of Seastone is any indication. It may well be true that some PvP gamers do actually spend money on the game. However due to the fact that there are way fewer of them compared to the rest of us what they contribute is small by comparison. It therefore is very important that more of them support the game when they can. Of course I'm just guessing here, but it stands to reason that the few who spend $40 will always be less than the many who spend the same.
    ??? How would you even know when you dont pvp. The fact that you compare people that do warfronts to the population of seastone is mind boggoling.

    Anyone that touches a warfront, is a "pvper". Me? Im a top notch PVE'r, PVP'r, and 70% of the people that are top notch pvper are in the top 90th percentile of rifts players.

    Rift caters too much towards the people who literally cant pve for **** or pvp. That is their issue. Its our fault that theyre terrible at the easiest MMO in the world an WE need to adjust.

    Turns my stomach thinking that this is literally whats been going on since the MoM nerfs.

    The hardest content in rift without pvp, is a JUMPING GAME, yah, JUMPING, BLOODY, GAME.

    And yet you wonder why majority of the playerbase who want something more challenging then a jumping game, PvP's. Because PvP is the most challenging and difficult content in the game and has been since MoM nerfs, literally making Rift, a PvP focused game whether they like it or not.
    Last edited by Gilgad; 05-05-2017 at 04:30 AM.

  15. #45
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    +1 for bringing back Port Scion. Even without NPCs.

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