Lets make rift great again

[ghostlyrider]

Hello

I'm a member in dawn of terror @ Faeblight

I making this post for all the devs @ Trion

I think we have some misunderstanding one with etch other between the players to to Trion

so let me make it more clear hopefully it may help

when the rift community kept saying we have nothing much to do in the game we was not referring for farming 100 experts or close 360 rifts (boring).

I believe that most if not all the players was referring to real progressions lets call to the baby in his name RAID.

you gave us QF I wouldn't even bother to talk about this you know why.

you gave us TD I would consider it as a 10 man expert since have no real challenge in it even though its broken .

you about to send out IROTP witch it an old raid and most off the players already know the fights.

how about something new?

something that we can progress on and challenging?

its so sad to see the best MMO game going down hard and fast .

new games are coming out and ppl don't stop talking about moving to them.

what is going to take for you to weak up and say ok lets start fresh here new raid go and beat your head on the wall for months till you get it done?

I really hope you will take this post for a good use and keep rift #1 MMO game

[Captain Kremmen]

I think the developers would like to do better but, Trion can't, or won't provide them with adequate resources and has them prioritise fluff, to bring money in via the shop.

[Aranka]

You' re both right...

players want more different things, preferably challenging (endgame) content.
Resources seem a little scarce to develop all we would like to see.

Positive in this is, that Trion says they invested in new technology over the past year to make more possible.

I know it is april already, but new technology takes its time to be used to full potential.
To give an idea... creating a brand new mount, from idea to implementation in game takes some 400 hours of work total spread over 3 or 4 people, all adding different parts (sound, movement/animation, looks, color...)

We all want everything done/fixed/created and ingame yesterday but sometimes, that is just not possible.

So just keep sending ideas, constructive feedback an anything that can help improve the game ;)

[Ongar]

In similar MMOs you can consider yourself lucky if you get a new raid every two or so years.
So I dont think they can do more, they need to make more out of what they do.

In retrospect they should have reserved CoA for 4.0 and TD for 4.1. In general they should refrain from the idea of seperate half tier and full tier raids which causes a double workload and a myriad of issues.

[dundare]

You' re both right...

I know it is april already, but new technology takes its time to be used to full potential.
To give an idea... creating a brand new mount, from idea to implementation in game takes some 400 hours of work total spread over 3 or 4 people, all adding different parts (sound, movement/animation, looks, color...)

Where do you get this number? Seems somewhat beyond fathomable.

[Haruchai]

****Please do not quote forum violations***

Many have said exactly the same thing over and over. To be realistic, Rift, as it is now, is as good (or mediocre to terrible) as its going to get, perhaps a slight upspike occasionally but mainly downspikes, due to no revenue being created. So it will probably get worse as more players leave for other games and take their dollars with them.

In order to make large-scale changes there would have to be significant investment and a big injection of funds, where is that going to come from? If I was an investor I would look at the track record and immediately my wallets ********* would be as tight as (insert euphemism of choice here). Why would anyone throw money at Rift when you could not reasonably expect to see a return for it, including Trion.

As sad as it is to see what I consider to be one of the greatest mmo's ever (vanilla and SL, nt not so much, sfp - HAHAHAHAHa) be degraded and killed off, by what I consider to be some of the worst business decisions I have ever seen, and as much as I would like to see it pull a lazarus, I don't believe its going to happen. Even if they wanted to make it great again, I don't believe they have the resources to do it.

So the moral of the story is be happy with what you have now, if you are happy with it. Don't expect it to get better or for player numbers to increase because in all likelihood it will get worse not better without a big injection of funds or some incredible ideas, I don't think either will be coming Rifts way in the future.

Perhaps they could do a Bungie and just scrap Rift and announce Rift 2 focusing on what made Rift great early on, with a monster NEW engine. I don't think it would happen but I will always be on the lookout for it, just in case.

[dundare]

***Please do not quote forum violations***

Agree with this. I wish they would make some changes. Heck, if you had asked me (of all people) how to fix rift I would say:

1) Make QF the LFR and add one boss every 4 weeks from the expac launch.

2) Make TD the T1 and have it launch first week in January.

3) Make boss progression linear with 1 being an entry level boss that is pretty darn easy for the accomplished and and accomplishable for newer folks with some work. Boss two adds a more significant mechanic check, boss 3 adds a mechanic and dps check, boss 4 is really hard. Side note - I think 10 mans should have a minimum of 5 bosses given the lag between them. This 5th boss could be opened later and be something that would provide a bigger reward given the difficulty and also some really nice items keeping people running it as time goes by. This would fix a lot for Rift in terms of more casual players, especially when paired with point 4. Instead of a Johlen or a Ungolok which blocked a ton of guilds and even caused people to quit the game they could save those "harder" bosses for later in the dungeon.

4) Come up with a feasible nerf schedule. The nerf schedule if rift has not been workable for most guilds. The decision to nerf often comes way too late and too close to the release of new content. We were farming Mom and there were still guilds struggling to run the first tier of content from that expac. A decision to nerf boss 1 8 weeks in, boss 2 12 weeks in, boss 3 16 weeks in, boss 4 20 weeks in and boss 5 only before new content comes out would go a long way. If need be as it gets real close to new tiered content you could then make some across the board nerfs to further make the content accessible with the end in sight.

5) Pair the nerf schedule with the introduction of hard modes. Expacs could be designed with a hard mode in planning. It doesnt have to be anything crazy - higher dps check, a new mechanic etc and these can be scaled up for each boss. The hard modes could role out on a parallel schedule with the nerfs if wanted or they could be put on a separate timeline. The hardmodes could unlock upgrade components, achieves, and even gear that is a tad bit better than the tier without really messing things up. A separate decision would need to be made about whether HM would ever get nerfs - I would say no.

6) Have a fixed plan for new content. Once you have the nerf and hm stuff incorporated into a plan you know when a second 10 for that tier could come out or a new tier could be introduced. I think even using a few extra bosses in QF as LFR (I would have never done LFR but you guys made that choice) would have taken november to mid to late february as you revealed a new boss every so often. Then TD could take folks from March to June and beyond especially with hardmodes, with IROTP coming out in May as a second tier 1 raid following the same logic. It would full out the gear you would need from that level and offer something sexy for committed raiders at the end. Somewhere around August you launch Tier 2 raids or a Tier 1.5 raid. Another boss or two could also be added to the LFR for QF for folks struggling to do T1. Tier 2 follows a similar pattern. Not too much changes but the logic and progression and nerfing all make sense.

7) Volan 2.0. We need a real world event that draws people from all over. Maybe even offer extra incentives for people doing it on Seastone, to bring back the glory days of that experience. Plan for 1 of these a year. Hell, update Volan for each expac

8) Come up with some kind of plan for PVP. It is really unfair how you have dramatically cut what people can do and failed to follow through. Even something like rotating maps for PVP, bringing back the 1 working CQ, and plan for 1-2 new maps per year. It would make a lot of fun if in each new continent you make that you make 1 zone a World PVP zone. Players know when they go in that it will be STV in WoW or something along those lines. That will make a lot of folks happy and make PVP a small part of everyones lives. Even if not bringing back CQ, make a map that gives a fun experience like Alteraac Valley in WoW.

9) Incorporate some of the above into gear upgrade paths. 100 experts? Make it so you need to complete a hard mode, or win some volans, WFs etc. You could even tie some to raid achievements.

10) Do something to make guilds matter more. Add in more guild levels, more guild perks, tie some in game benefits to guild members. A PVP guild could earn some real perks for their members beyond what we have and a PVE guild could earn things that help them beyond what is available.

11) More PA

12) Dont rejigger existing classes so much. Let some certainty build in and maybe adjust as needed in small ways. Let people play what they want for longer periods. Consider adding a new race(s). Consider adding a new class.

13) Begin a longer term project to get people back into older content or rather make older content scalable. Even if it is a 2 year thing to accomplish it would be pretty cool.

The end of this list wanders, but the front part is just basic stuff that could have and should have been obvious.

[Letobrick]

I could not help but notice the amount of threads being dismissed/locked along with an unprecedented level of snark I've haven't seen ever since SFP was released. And this is coming from both the Trion Staff as well as some of the more passionate posters, many of whom have seemingly left. I feel it is all very disconcerting and tensions seem to be at an all-time high.

I've made this plea before and I am making it again: we need upper management to step up and openly discuss to the players where things have went wrong this expansion and what is being done to address the issues at hand. I feel we desperately need the Trion CEO, the one who promised SFP would be worthy of the premium expansion label to please address the white elephant in the room and reassure us that this is still the case, or give it to us straight if it isn't. We all want Rift to succeed and I strongly believe the player base would appreciate the candor far FAR greater than the silence and defensive posturing.

Because I am seeing alot of posters here who have given valid and helpful feedback waving their arms up and leaving. Essentially, it feels as if we're being told, if you don't like it: feel free to leave and go play another game. I understand if this is fully expected based on the roles and responsibilities that are spelled out. But I feel there is no way we can make Rift "great again" if this is the kind of feedback we are being given from the Director of Community Relations and especially if the current situation doesn't change .

[McChaffe]

I have found myself hanging around here still.

You're not the only one.

Even after long-since leaving the game, I still come back to check forums a few times every month. First time I've logged in and posted here since then too.

It's depressing honestly seeing how far this game has fallen.

[Aranka]

Where do you get this number? Seems somewhat beyond fathomable.

From Vladd

[Boxsmith]

As some have said in this thread, Trion's downfall that has led them to this point has been largely due to their own awful decisions, starting with early NT. Looking back, that's where it all began, and I'll try and illustrate that point because why not.

NT's first mistake was introducing grinds and additional crafted upgrade items to make dropped gear worthwhile. They debuted along with the original experts, taking anywhere from 8,000 to 20,000 abyssal crusader's marks to upgrade, along with 1 or more "amenders". This drastically changed the game for players who liked alts. Suddenly, it was a chore to raid on more than one toon, and the costs got steeper and steeper as the expansion went along.

By the time MoM came out, people would actively avoid upgrades because their T2 relic gear was better without shelling out huge amounts of plat and currency for the upgrade items. It was ridiculous. This shift in the meta caused a decline in login numbers simply because many raiders who had previously raided on multiple toons could no longer justify the resource sink that raiding become. Hikos had a whole thread on this in the midst of NT that was largely ignored by the devs.

NT's second mistake was gating and pacing. Experts came out a bit overtuned but they were nerfed relatively quickly, so I won't get into that. The first issue came with RoF. Ungolok, the first boss, was basically unbeatable for newer / less skilled guilds trying to get into raiding. The pre-nerf dps check was very high at the time, the mechanics we quite complicated for the first boss of the first raid of the expansion, and you had to defeat him to move on to the other bosses.

Ungolok frustrated many of these fledgling raiding guilds for months into the expansion, long after MS came out. MS had issues of its own, but at least Bulf could be done by pretty much any guild, provided they had enough guild members to not have to pug. Eventually they nerfed RoF and MS, but by then the damage had been done. Many of these guilds broke up, their main raiders having gotten discouraged and either given up on raiding or left the game entirely. I remember seeing both happening at this time, directly because of this boss. Directly. And to repeat myself, MS wasn't much better, but at least Jino could just be overhealed so you could get 2/5 pretty early on. Yrlwalach aside, MS had progressively harder bosses, so guilds could gear up on the easy bosses while attempting the harder ones. You know, how a raid should be designed lol.

T2 had its own issues but there was nothing catastrophically wrong. Then T3 came along with MoM, and Pagura the guild-killer. The mechanics weren't terrible, but it was harder than it needed to be for the first boss, and the dps check was pretty brutal. I remember how only ~37 guilds worldwide had cleared that first boss of the 9 boss raid, like 5 months into the release. It was awful. Quite a few of the remaining guilds disbanded in frustration, while Trion sat around doing nothing. Eventually they implemented a drastic nerf, but the damage had already been done. By the time CoA actually came out, what had once been a thriving endgame raiding scene had died down to almost nothing. The damage was irreversible.

NT's third mistake was the shift in business model. The expansion was touted as being free, but it was only truly free if you didn't care about earrings or planewalker: water, both of which were necessary for early endgame activities. Earring slots could be bought with voidstones, but at 100k stones per toon, you were looking at minimum 3-4 weeks per toon, and that's assuming you were very diligent about doing your weeklies. It was deceptive marketing practices to say the least, and turned off / away a lot of people.

Also the cash shop changes in general. Trion aggressively marketed raid gear and raid gear bundles, along with the currency tokens required to upgrade your drops. You can debate the actual definition all you want, but it had the overall effect of making the game FEEL more P2W. Some argued that they only even released CoA so that they would have an excuse to sell T3 raid gear in the shop.

As far as I can remember, these are the big 3 reasons NT was the road to ruin. Things have only gotten worse with planar fragments, ultra-grindy upgrades, and the great plat depression, and Trion continues to hemorrhage longtime players. They might get a lot of dedicated players back if they just re-rolled back to SL in terms of general gameplay practices, but their revenue would take a large hit in the short term, and I'd imagine the corporate overlords would never allow that. I've often wondered how many of these poor decsisions / blatant cash grabs were on the devs, and how many on the suits who order them around, but I digress.

So yeah, Rift isn't getting great again. There's no stopping the death spiral at this point.

[ChamberDown]

So yeah, Rift isn't getting great again. There's no stopping the death spiral at this point.

I don't think it's necessarily in a "death spiral" but I do think that there is some definite room for growth. Over the last few months, they've addressed a lot of issues players had strife with, such as class balance (more work to do of course, but closer) some fragment work (needs more), iRotP being the first full fledged T1 on its way, etc.

Honestly, if they can get a good solid fix for some of the broken class interactions and push them to live (skyfall spam 60% of parse, Vorpal Salvo wtf primalists, freakin sab rogue dps variants i.e. sinsab where you dont even use your finisher, etc) and overhaul the ridiculous fragment system, coupled with the first actual T1 raid coming out, I'd have little to complain about really.

[ghostlyrider]

I don't think it's necessarily in a "death spiral" but I do think that there is some definite room for growth. Over the last few months, they've addressed a lot of issues players had strife with, such as class balance (more work to do of course, but closer) some fragment work (needs more), iRotP being the first full fledged T1 on its way, etc.

Honestly, if they can get a good solid fix for some of the broken class interactions and push them to live (skyfall spam 60% of parse, Vorpal Salvo wtf primalists, freakin sab rogue dps variants i.e. sinsab where you dont even use your finisher, etc) and overhaul the ridiculous fragment system, coupled with the first actual T1 raid coming out, I'd have little to complain about really.

I don't know if you checked IROTP on pts but when its will come live you will cry that tempest don't have its burst no more as its right now on 1st boss dps check is 862k per dps players good luck.

[Aranka]

some might argue it went wrong with going F2P / Storm Legion... not so much because of the f2p system, but because then we got the big level boosts, players being able to powerlevel in less than a day to max level and be able to get through crafted gear straight into instances


Remember the ... 'can anyone get me a portal/summon to anywhere on Mathosia, because I don't have a single portal there, tho I am level 60....'

Powerlevel upto a few weeks ago was basically get Starfall, round up a few friends and get 70 in less than 4 hours straight... And that's not talking about levelling through crafting workorders or using instant level 60/65 boosts.

[bitnine]

I see... Welp, certainly not my intent and I shan't be doing that today.

In other news, seems like continuing a tough situation particularly for raiders. Raid content may be coming out, but looks like a pretty big gap to cross for any returning or formerly semi-active player. You can't really stepping stone or even power through as much grind as there is in the casual tier. And that's coming from someone who knows what a Pyrkari loop was.

Kind of a pity, that.

I do wonder. Is the current gear progression, fragments included, working as intended? Might there be any change down the line? Will the grind gap only widen? If not, and we don't hear anything of the sort, the idea resurgence is a bit tough.

And most importantly: Did Clowd really intend to call them "Challenger servers" on his dev chatter roundup? : o