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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Can they do something to fix crafting rifts?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    If it were that easy, yes it would be easy to fix. But it isn't that at all.

    There is nothing in the loot table that cares about how many players there are or how many players get a roll. Not a thing.

    We have also tried repeatedly over the last few years to replicate the described behavior internally and have never been able to repro a case of a player that does a contributing act at a rift not getting loot.

    The best guess I can make is that with that number of players it is simply hard for every person to do something that generates contribution to the rift closure. And if you don't get in a contributing action, then you won't get any loot.
    Thanks for the reply man.

    It did seem odd that there would be a cap to the number of players recieving rewards, especially as this doesn't apply to zone events and other outdoor activities I know of. It seems to be around that number of players though that things start to go wrong. Has the code for these rifts been looked at for a while as I know they were created years ago? Maybe there is some weird piece of code that doesn't play nice with newer systems.

    As a few others have stated it really is not the case that people are not participating. I have had instances where I have wailed on mobs and done objectives in every stage and not recived any loot. Do you guys have data linking loot recieved with participation? You obviously track participation and I assume you must know who gets loot?

    I am sure you have tried to fix this dude, I am not going to question the effort you put in as I see how much you do and I appreciate that a lot. If there is something we can do to help let us know
    Last edited by Balidin; 04-13-2017 at 02:31 AM.

  2. #32
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    Tacitus, thank you for your reply. I appreciate that the fix is not straight forward and that the underlying problem proves elusive.
    However, it has happened to me as well as other guildies and members of our crift raid. I for sure was participating in every stage of the Rift (as evidenced on the dps meter :P).
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  3.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #33
    Shiny Ball of Doomy Doom Tacitus's Avatar
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    Thank you for the feedback.

    The good thing is that posting what we thought we knew so far has focused the discussion.

    So what we knew... It isn't a data defined limit to loot quantity. It doesn't appear random, since internal repro has been zero, and yet it appears to be happening with alarming frequency in Live, so we should have seen it in internal testing if it was random.

    What the last day has added... People that have definitely contributed (using the lure in and of itself is automatic contribution) have failed to get loot, so we know it isn't simply a matter of too many people for everyone to get a swing or spell in. It really only seems to happen with really large numbers (no reports I have seen of it hitting a small number of players).

    So... I am speculating now that there might be some code cap to how many player ids are being tracked as contributors. And that with enough people, some get forced off the list (FIFO style or the like). That said, that contribution tracking is a seven year old section of the code base, so looking into it is not a fast or easy process. But we are looking more deeply in that possibility now.
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  4. #34
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    Not sure if it helps, but as somebody who participatedin in over 150 SFP crifts, i found 1 tear with a significant high chance to not receive loot. I think all 5/5 times i did not receive loot was at this location

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Thank you for the feedback.

    The good thing is that posting what we thought we knew so far has focused the discussion.

    So what we knew... It isn't a data defined limit to loot quantity. It doesn't appear random, since internal repro has been zero, and yet it appears to be happening with alarming frequency in Live, so we should have seen it in internal testing if it was random.

    What the last day has added... People that have definitely contributed (using the lure in and of itself is automatic contribution) have failed to get loot, so we know it isn't simply a matter of too many people for everyone to get a swing or spell in. It really only seems to happen with really large numbers (no reports I have seen of it hitting a small number of players).

    So... I am speculating now that there might be some code cap to how many player ids are being tracked as contributors. And that with enough people, some get forced off the list (FIFO style or the like). That said, that contribution tracking is a seven year old section of the code base, so looking into it is not a fast or easy process. But we are looking more deeply in that possibility now.
    Thanks man. Hopefully you can get to the bottom of it. I can imagine it will be a bit of a slog to go through the code and find the culprit. Hopefully we can get it sorted soon but I think we can all understand it might take a while and that is fine.
    Last edited by Balidin; 04-13-2017 at 01:56 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    So... I am speculating now that there might be some code cap to how many player ids are being tracked as contributors. And that with enough people, some get forced off the list (FIFO style or the like). That said, that contribution tracking is a seven year old section of the code base, so looking into it is not a fast or easy process. But we are looking more deeply in that possibility now.
    Thanks for checking into this.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    (no reports I have seen of it hitting a small number of players)
    Hi Taci - Didn't report it at the time 'cause I just figured it was really bad RNG for me, but in July and August 2016 I soloed several water crifts through the final stages in the PTW where the only reward was planarite.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noobly View Post
    Thanks for checking into this.
    Thanks for the free loot Noobly! I like a free nut once in a while.

  9. #39
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    At first I had an issue with not getting loot, but they seem to have fixed that. I don't get why people freak out so much. If you have 20 people in a raid, and 20 lures, if you get loot (you only have to hit 1 thing...), what does it matter if people are following too? It's called Rift for a reason. And Rifts were always open world except for the Nightmares, so why is this a "bug"? How are you being hurt? I've done 3 Full Crift groups, and I have gotten loot each time, whether there are followers or not. And it's not that hard to mess with them, just shard hop. A well-planned Crift group can have no followers because they can't keep up. It's not the system. It's people's selfishness.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebulus77 View Post
    And it's not that hard to mess with them, just shard hop. A well-planned Crift group can have no followers because they can't keep up.
    If you miss more than 1/20 as solo "leecher", you are doing it wrong. You will not miss a single one if you have at least 2 people in the raid with rift summon.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by keepor View Post
    . You will not miss a single one if you have at least 2 people in the raid with rift summon.
    Don't you have to be in a party or raid to benefit from rift summon?

    I was personally affected in one of the rifts, where all i got was planarite and some glass beads. YAY :/ You know, it is quite expensive to craft a crift lure so it needs to stop, the leeching, if there are so many people around trying to get their share of the cake even though they don't deserve it. Now, if really all contributors were getting the loot I would not complain, but if you're the one who crafted the lure and get nothing that is a whole different game...


  12. #42
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    @ Tacticus

    Just a little more data. I've run a few crifting groups with guildies where we've opened about 60 lures total.
    • We've never seen "no loot" with fewer than 20 people total at the rift
    • Occasionally we see no loot for individuals in our raid when a second raid comes to leech. Typically around 30 people total
    • We had one rift where the only person in our entire raid that got credit was the opener. This time a full additional raid came to leech. I was active in every stage, as were most of my crew. None got loot except the opener.
    • An odd issue we saw with the "no loot for everyone" rift described above: the planar summons skill (Summon group: Death) wouldn't work in this crift for anyone, including the opener. Really weird... we've been running guild events to close major rifts in Ashenfells for months prior 4.1, so we've opened every possible tear in the zone many times in the past. First time any of us had seen this issue. For the other 59 crifts, planar summons did work.
    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Lakshmi; 04-14-2017 at 01:10 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebulus77 View Post
    At first I had an issue with not getting loot, but they seem to have fixed that. I don't get why people freak out so much. If you have 20 people in a raid, and 20 lures, if you get loot (you only have to hit 1 thing...), what does it matter if people are following too? It's called Rift for a reason. And Rifts were always open world except for the Nightmares, so why is this a "bug"? How are you being hurt? I've done 3 Full Crift groups, and I have gotten loot each time, whether there are followers or not. And it's not that hard to mess with them, just shard hop. A well-planned Crift group can have no followers because they can't keep up. It's not the system. It's people's selfishness.
    Obviously there is a problem with the loot when multiple raids are involved, which even Tacitus has recognized. Reading comprehension ftw.

    It's pretty simple for leech groups to post a watcher on each shard to look for tear openings. Please explain how shard hopping helps in that case. You going to teach them a lesson by abandoning the crift you just opened? Lol

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by keepor View Post
    Not sure if it helps, but as somebody who participatedin in over 150 SFP crifts, i found 1 tear with a significant high chance to not receive loot. I think all 5/5 times i did not receive loot was at this location

    If memory serves me right, I also got no loot at that rift position. However it may have been just bad luck due to that leeching raid that followed us, there were ~45 people total in my damage meter. But at least one other person complained that he/she didn't get loot.

    At least we don't get asked to burn individual reward charges only to get nothing.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Thank you for the feedback.

    The good thing is that posting what we thought we knew so far has focused the discussion.

    So what we knew... It isn't a data defined limit to loot quantity. It doesn't appear random, since internal repro has been zero, and yet it appears to be happening with alarming frequency in Live, so we should have seen it in internal testing if it was random.

    What the last day has added... People that have definitely contributed (using the lure in and of itself is automatic contribution) have failed to get loot, so we know it isn't simply a matter of too many people for everyone to get a swing or spell in. It really only seems to happen with really large numbers (no reports I have seen of it hitting a small number of players).

    So... I am speculating now that there might be some code cap to how many player ids are being tracked as contributors. And that with enough people, some get forced off the list (FIFO style or the like). That said, that contribution tracking is a seven year old section of the code base, so looking into it is not a fast or easy process. But we are looking more deeply in that possibility now.
    Thanks for the update.
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