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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Producer's Letter

  1. #31
    Soulwalker JudgeBurias's Avatar
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    Most producers letters these days are glorified forum posts. 3-4 short paragraphs. And really, that would be enough, no need even for any pictures. Just a short rundown of what is planned. That takes 1h to finish, and that is extremely generous.

    Not having a producers letter by now tells me they dont care or they dont know what they will do after 4.1. Right now i guess all members of the team are working on 4.1 full time. No thoughts about anything else. After release there will be several weeks of furious patching if i look at RIFT history.

    After that they will probably take a hard look at the general state of the game and then decide what they want/can do in the future. I guess big things are no longer feasible. Maybe then we will get a letter
    Last edited by JudgeBurias; 03-18-2017 at 12:48 AM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doveblack View Post
    You do realize thats not how many businesses operate. They will invest in a new product, and then recouperate the costs of producing it by the profitability of the product.
    If that's the business model used then it's beholden on the company to have a finished, working product to sell before they ask for the back-fill money. Quite clearly, SFP was anything but finished. Heck, four months after release it's still missing a large chunk of what they advertised, i.e. they're using what's supposed to be back-fill money (which would be used in the ongoing development of new stuff) to try and finish what should have already been in the product.

  3. #33
    Plane Touched Doveblack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meteorblade View Post
    If that's the business model used then it's beholden on the company to have a finished, working product to sell before they ask for the back-fill money. Quite clearly, SFP was anything but finished. Heck, four months after release it's still missing a large chunk of what they advertised, i.e. they're using what's supposed to be back-fill money (which would be used in the ongoing development of new stuff) to try and finish what should have already been in the product.
    I agree that it was released unfinished, unpolished and broken. But you said yourself that the PREORDER money was supposed to be used on the xpack to ensure that it was a polished, finished product.

    I guess that trion should have realized that there are a bunch of entitled moochers that would be buying it for 1/4 the legit price the day the preorders went live? Maybe they had more faith in the "community" than was deserved?

    People can accuse me of white knighting all they want, but i guess that makes them white knights for the fraud sites? I mean, at least im not white knighting in favor of money launderers and theives right?
    Last edited by Doveblack; 03-18-2017 at 01:20 AM.
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  4. #34
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    Default ...and back on topic - No Producer's Letter

    It is interesting how the conversation goes all over the place here. Or someone pitches stones at the OP but not about the topic. I will try to bring the OP topic back into the fray. No Producer's Letter is crazy. It is not difficult. I work in a bureaucratic place in death by Powerpoint land and we even manage to cough up goals quarterly. Yearly goals are tied to the fiscal year- which means the Producer's Letter (or annual assessment) would have been coughed up in October last year. I think I saw a snippet of a Livesteam where Archonix said he had not done the Producer's Letter because he had been "lazy." Brasse tried to cover for him but there it was. Archonix served up last year's letter early Feb last year. (Tic Toc Chris).
    I suspect Rift is pretty much on maintenance mode. Not a lot of cycles are going to be devoted to the game- beyond keeping the lights on. But that is my opinion- as no Producer's Letter is in hand for this year.

  5. #35
    Plane Touched Rivkah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doveblack View Post
    I agree that it was released unfinished, unpolished and broken. But you said yourself that the PREORDER money was supposed to be used on the xpack to ensure that it was a polished, finished product.

    I guess that trion should have realized that there are a bunch of entitled moochers that would be buying it for 1/4 the legit price the day the preorders went live? Maybe they had more faith in the "community" than was deserved?

    People can accuse me of white knighting all they want, but i guess that makes them white knights for the fraud sites? I mean, at least im not white knighting in favor of money launderers and theives right?
    I think you're getting flak because your reasoning doesn't appear to make any sense. What dollar amount do you think typing a few paragraphs in a word document costs the company? Then you basically accuse everyone wanting the bare minimum of transparency of being money launderers and thieves?

    Like, in my line of work I have to type out the weekly agenda before the week I am talking about is a quarter through.I am also certain the half hour it takes me to write it doesn't cost the company a vast amount.

    We are asking for so little.

  6. #36
    Shield of Telara Kelvenaru's Avatar
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    I did ask about this some time back.

    Trion are showing how little they actually care now.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doveblack View Post
    The simple fact is, this expansion was a return to buy to play, rather than free to play. A bunch of the "community" decided to financially undermine trion and therefor undermine rift, by obtaining the xpack fraudulently.


    I came back during SL and over the years i found some interesting events. Just listing them up here and trying to be as objective as i can.


    - Ascend a Friend
    Spamming your code in 1-29 chat and/or helping new players is enough to let them use your code. A lot of people i know made hundreds of "free" REX with this method on several accounts. (Sometimes they made 1-4 REX/day)
    REX for referral coins got removed 1 year ago ==> http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...ml#post5169148


    - Gamecards/Patron
    Untill the end of last year you could buy half an year patron time for 1/4 of Trions price on external sites. I think the remainders are sold by now.



    - Steamgate

    There is something like region pricing, so players from countries with less income can play the games aswell. For years players and resellers abused this system beside the fact Trion has region locks ==> https://www.twitch.tv/videos/83263286?t=20m30s. Don't know if they have their own region locks or they relied on the steam build in ip based region lock.

    Just for example the expansion was on sale for 10$ (-30% because game was sold via steam platform) in some countries => http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...ml#post5235461. Earning 7$ instead of 40$...



    - Real fraud

    Credit card fraud or stolen codes. Don't know how much impact this had on the Trions profit reduction.


    - Ingame exploits
    Dimension items npc selling exploit etc. did not realy affect the real money market.


    If you just look at these few points, you realise Trion earned less and less money.


    If you realy like the game => buy directly via their website/shop
    Last edited by keepor; 03-18-2017 at 04:00 AM.
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  8. #38
    Ascendant Meteorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doveblack View Post
    People can accuse me of white knighting all they want, but i guess that makes them white knights for the fraud sites?
    Got to love a good old logical fallacy. Let me give you an example.
    Person A asserts Claim X.
    The possible reactions to the assertion are...
    Person B believes Claim X.
    Person B does not believe Claim X
    Person B asserts that Claim X is false.
    In no way are the second and third options the same. The second option (which is the default logical position) is to not believe any claim until sufficient evidence has been provided to demonstrate its veracity. That is not the same as asserting the claim to be false.

    This logical fallacy is known as an argument from ignorance.

    In other words, it's perfectly possible for people to disagree with you without agreeing with fraud.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doveblack View Post
    I agree that it was released unfinished, unpolished and broken. But you said yourself that the PREORDER money was supposed to be used on the xpack to ensure that it was a polished, finished product.

    I guess that trion should have realized that there are a bunch of entitled moochers that would be buying it for 1/4 the legit price the day the preorders went live? Maybe they had more faith in the "community" than was deserved?

    People can accuse me of white knighting all they want, but i guess that makes them white knights for the fraud sites? I mean, at least im not white knighting in favor of money launderers and theives right?
    did we play the same "xpac"?


    regardless of anything, the "xpac" didnt have any content besides a 5 minute 1 boss raid and loldungeons.. if anything the xpac took away content lol. anybody who bought it should feel stupid and that is nobody but trions fault. if i knew how to obtain it in a shady way, i would of too.
    Last edited by beyondcaring; 03-18-2017 at 07:54 AM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meteorblade View Post
    Got to love a good old logical fallacy. Let me give you an example.
    Person A asserts Claim X.
    The possible reactions to the assertion are...
    Person B believes Claim X.
    Person B does not believe Claim X
    Person B asserts that Claim X is false.
    In no way are the second and third options the same. The second option (which is the default logical position) is to not believe any claim until sufficient evidence has been provided to demonstrate its veracity. That is not the same as asserting the claim to be false.

    This logical fallacy is known as an argument from ignorance.

    In other words, it's perfectly possible for people to disagree with you without agreeing with fraud.
    Please keep your logic out of here, you're killing all the fun. Besides, there is no place for logic when people are busy making up alternative facts.

  11. #41
    Shield of Telara Questoften's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elayara View Post
    Please keep your logic out of here, you're killing all the fun. Besides, there is no place for logic when people are busy making up alternative facts.
    Got to love a good old logical fallacy. Let me give you an example.

    Person A asserts Claim X.

    The possible reactions to the assertion are...

    Person B believes Claim X.
    Person B does not believe Claim X
    Person B asserts that Claim X is false.

    In no way are the second and third options the same. The second option (which is the default logical position) is to not believe any claim until sufficient evidence has been provided to demonstrate its veracity. That is not the same as asserting the claim to be false.

    This logical fallacy is known as an argument from ignorance.

    In other words, it's perfectly possible for people to disagree with you without agreeing with fraud.
    Statements of opinion ie like/dislike, can filter down into what is true/false pretty quickly because in debate there is usually a easy bridge for doing so.

    One should virtually never in any argument talk in terms of universal/right wrong and always consider ones context.

    Sometimes there really is no common ground in a debate, one can like a thing for some of the same reasons another dislikes it. They cant relate, you cant relate.

    Assumptions are made, often rashly, people lose there objectivity, it becomes personal.

    When you reach this point, there is often no explaining, only a meaningless war of words, all thunder and fury signifying nothing...useful.
    .................................................. ....

    Also...saying someone has an argument based on ignorance, is often used by propaganda artists, when they suppress, or white wash the facts as often as it is by legitimate scientist conducting honest research. Just saying, in general, you know.
    Last edited by Questoften; 03-18-2017 at 10:14 AM.
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  12. #42
    Rift Chaser Janella's Avatar
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    Unhappy etc.

    Waiting for 4.1 is like "the deep breath before the plunge." 4.1 is not going to save the company or the game, but it might serve to get the game back on track. It might bring a few people back, but probably won't get many new players on board. I am wondering, as many are, if Rift, as we know it, is done - no producers letter is as good an indication as any, where no writing on the proverbial wall is the omen of grave portent.

    I am wondering why people are still playing Rift? For myself, I love the game and still have so many things I want to accomplish in-game; time and money investment; at this point in my life I really don't like starting over again somewhere else; and story/lore (e.g., love the old Mathosian sagas).
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  13. #43
    Plane Touched Doveblack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beyondcaring View Post
    did we play the same "xpac"?


    regardless of anything, the "xpac" didnt have any content besides a 5 minute 1 boss raid and loldungeons.. if anything the xpac took away content lol. anybody who bought it should feel stupid and that is nobody but trions fault. if i knew how to obtain it in a shady way, i would of too.
    I agree with most of what you said. I said pretty much the same thing about the xpack in other threads. I have voiced my complaints about the things i dislike, especially how i cant stand planar fragments. However, i think most of the new zones look good, particularly Scatheran Forest.

    In pretty much every post in this thread, i have also mentioned how trion is not blameless. They neglected rift to work on other games, funneling profits from rift into other fail games. We already know that.

    However, when theres a whiny snowflake thread like this, its important to remember that there is more than just trions mismanagement at work.

    Another poster mentioned earlier that the money generated during the preorder period would be used to polish and finish the xpack so that when it was released it would be complete. Then some "community" members decided to buy it for 1/4 the price through an arbitrage scam. You dont think the massive amount of fraud that hits game devs causes the quality of their games to drop?

    I disagree with what you said about looking for shady ways to purchase rift stuff, however. I want rift to succeed, not to fail.
    Last edited by Doveblack; 03-18-2017 at 10:20 AM.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doveblack View Post
    I agree with most of what you said. I said pretty much the same thing about the xpack in other threads. I have voiced my complaints about the things i dislike, especially how i cant stand planar fragments. However, i think most of the new zones look good, particularly Scatheran Forest.

    In pretty much every post in this thread, i have also mentioned how trion is not blameless. They neglected rift to work on other games, funneling profits from rift into other fail games. We already know that.

    However, when theres a whiny snowflake thread like this, its important to remember that there is more than just trions mismanagement at work.

    Another poster mentioned earlier that the money generated during the preorder period would be used to polish and finish the xpack so that when it was released it would be complete. Then some "community" members decided to buy it for 1/4 the price through an arbitrage scam. You dont think the massive amount of fraud that hits game devs causes the quality of their games to drop?

    I disagree with what you said about looking for shady ways to purchase rift stuff, however. I want rift to succeed, not to fail.
    "when can we expect a producer's letter?"

    and apparently your answer is: "everyone stole the game so you're not getting one." ???

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doveblack View Post
    However, when theres a whiny snowflake thread like this, its important to remember that there is more than just trions mismanagement at work.
    So because you thought my request for more transparency was a "whiny snowflake thread", you decided to hijack the thread for your personal agenda?

    Right now, in regards to this thread, I don't care about players scamming to pay less. I care about Trion's decisions and how they are impacting the game and the community. You want to discuss players' faults? Fine, but don't go misdirecting a thread because it doesn't suit your agenda.
    R.I.P.

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