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Thread: Ideas to make money without forcing people to pay

  1. #1
    Ascendant Laeti's Avatar
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    Default Ideas to make money without forcing people to pay

    As the title suggests, the thread is about making money off Rift without building paywalls where they don't belong. These are just my thoughts, inspired by my own playing experience and things I've heard here/in the game/in various chats from other players.

    1. Run more sales for both mounts and unique wardrobe sets.

    Every time there's a mount sale reel, people rush to buy mounts they've always wanted but couldn't get for different reasons. I've bought a few off the sales myself. Obviously, rotating the same mounts every time would get old pretty soon, so include more mounts - unique (old promos, old chieves especially those no one does anymore), event, promo events etc etc. Everybody knows every seasonal event will have last year's special for currency instead of credits. But what if I want it right meow? A mount sale would allow people to buy more cool mounts during the year without having to gamble or wait for special promotions/events (that's especially true for events that aren't happening anymore).

    Same with wardrobes: run unique wardrobe sales every now and then similar to mount reels. Let people buy what they always wanted but never got to spend credits on - sometimes, even a 5% off makes the item that much more attractive.

    2. Speaking of wardrobes, make it possible to buy separate unlocks with credits!

    Seriously, why is this even not in game yet? We're able to draw artifacts straight from the artifact UI, but for some reason unable to get that one last piece of set (that awesome weapon skin, that no longer available costume piece) with credits?

    Let's be honest here, there are no accurate and up-to-date sources of info on where to obtain gear/weapon pieces, unless it's something obvious (like raid drops). Even if there are sources, wardrobe unlocks have different item names from the actual items that unlock their appearance. So, looking for a certain unlock, almost every time, is a PITA. Let us "draw" specific wardrobe unlocks for credits! Make the pricing reasonable (the more reasonable it is, the more pieces will be bought). Obviously, all slots should be available to such unlocks, weapons included.

    3. Speaking of wardrobes again, what's the matter with Affinity wardrobes?

    Currently, the only wardrobe available for Affinity is, to say the least, underwhelming. To be more exact, it's something we've all seen like a thousand times before. Meanwhile, the mount section is doing great and even gets updated, with items you can't (for the most part) get elsewhere. Why is the wardrobe section so sad then? Please, add more interesting stuff in there! A re-colored version of an old wardrobe isn't something I'd spend my Affinity points on, especially when there's cool dimension items and mounts. Make Affinity more appealing to wardrobe junkies, please!

    4. Here's something I've suggested a long time ago but never got a reply to: Make hairstyles AND emotes available to all races/factions for credits!

    Come on, we already have hairstyles/skintones/unique emotes packs. Meaning, it's entirely possible to make those in packs, right? So why can't my Kelari rock those dwarven dance moves huh?! That's something I'd gladly pay for, as well as the ability to unlock separate appearances/hairstyles/etc that are currently locked by race/faction. Yes, I know, faction changing scrolls and all. Err, switching to play a Guardian dwarf instead of my Defiant Kelari? Yeah, not gonna happen. Give me separate unlocks for styles and emotes, and my credits are yours. Don't forget to also put them on sale every now and then.

    5. Generally, just put more stuff on sale more often! You won't believe all the stuff people would buy should they see a lower price tag, not because the item is not worth it but because we aren't all billionaires and we have priorities as to what to spend the credits on first. Sometimes even awesome items look too pricey - give us an option to buy stuff we wouldn't normally buy!

    6. For the love of RNG gods, make lockboxes more appealing!

    There's been multiple threads with oh so many comments on why lockboxes are bad. And no, they aren't bad because they make us gamble. They're bad because they're not worth the price like 90% of the time. Yes there are some awesome items... well, one - the mount. That has an incredibly low chance of dropping. What about other stuff? Isn't it enough that every time I'd open a lockbox I'd be disappointed twice instead of once: first because there's never a mount, second because anything but the mount is junk?

    We get it, lockboxes aren't going anywhere. There's probably even a decent amount of people who are still buying those. Wouldn't it be great if more people started doing it? That's easy. Make it worth the money. Add more stuff! Rare weapon unlocks, more pets, more wardrobe sets (cool wardrobes, not the ones we can get for like 5p total in the AH), more fluff consumables, unique dimension items (hi Stan), and so on. Make it all tradeable so people could compensate at least some costs even if there's nothing they need from the box.

    And here's another one: increase the mount drop chance at least a little. More people getting mounts from boxes = more people buying boxes. People seeing there's no way in hell they're getting anything good = less people buying boxes. Simple.

    7. Last but not least: make Patron great again more appealing.

    Personally I was very happy to hear about the recent change to non-patrons. Better late than never, and it is indeed very important to improve certain things not by taking away from other things, but by looking for ways to actually improve.

    Right now, as a purely casual player who doesn't play long hours, I don't see any need in paying for Patron status. Even while levelling, it wasn't really that annoying to pay for the soul mend now and then and use some vials from 69 to 70. I don't hunt arties, I don't really care about currency bonus. Credit discounts are nice but not enough reason for me to get patron. Without weekly quests I don't care which pvp matches I'm going to get - randoms are enough.

    I know we can't get a credit stipend even though other games do it - okay, no biggie. I absolutely love Affinity system but let's be honest: it takes time to get most things and we need something more than just the option to get a cool thingie once every few months(!). Patron boxes are nice, but again - see #6.

    Here's just a few things that could be added to Patron to make it better for different play styles:

    - Credit discounts? Great! Make a discount for upgrading dimensions for credits too, the price to get one to tier 5 especially when you build a lot is way too high.

    - Add more fluff (better discounts to fluff items, such as mounts & wardrobes)

    - Add weekly/monthly quests for patrons that would reward substantial amounts of both plat and currency, perhaps also some cool fluff items that could be - again - tradeable.

    - Make loyalty gain for patrons faster than it normally is, at least a little.

    - Add more low-price purchases for Affinity (pets, dyes, single dimension items, single hairstyles and emotes, stuff that can be purchased within a month instead of several months - for those who pay monthly that would be a nice addition).


    -------------------------------

    As you can see, all the suggestions are limited to fluff items and unlocks; no extreme paywall solutions or anything that can be remotely considered pay to win. In fact I've seen many people say the game store needs more fluff to offer for money so people could support the game without feeling they've been forced into it.

    If you have any other suggestions - please comment below, and let's keep it nice and civil.
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  2. #2
    Telaran lokoma's Avatar
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    i agree one of the things that separates rift from other games i enjoy is the paywall buying into something that you may or may not like versus liking a game and wanting to support it

    here is where rift gets it wrong they got the worst of everything if terms of player support options buy to play with dlc and cash shop and on top of that a sub option. pick one path and go with it it would do wonders for the game

  3. #3
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    @Trion: you should hire the OP. Seriously.

    For a while now Trion practices this strange mindset of "give me your money or else". The way they made patron better by not changing patron at all, but only making non-patron worse is a text book example of this mindset.

    I agree with all your points here, making people want to give their money to the company seems to be much smarter than the route Trion goes. But seeing how they are adamant in their ways makes me doubt any of this will ever be implemented (that it took them a year to find out what a bad move the non-patron changes were, and then they still reverted only half of the changes, shows how much they cling to that horrible mindset).

    Edit: Everything you mentioned would also require dev time, so it's not going to happen
    Last edited by Elayara; 03-03-2017 at 07:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elayara View Post
    Edit: Everything you mentioned would also require dev time, so it's not going to happen
    Exactly my thoughts. Pretty much almost everything that was mentioned so far by players, even the stuff that's in the workings, is too much effort to make nowdays. Sadly they are falling behind with conetent by half a year now and not gaining any ground.

    The problem with all these ideas is, you need an adequate costumer base for it to operate well enough. And without quality content in high enough quantity you simply cannot have that. You can try to monetize more and more things, but if your game has very little content, you won't be bringing new players in and will be loosing old ones at the same time. Which means your pool of customers that would be preepared to spend mony on such things gets smaller and smaller. Which makes it not worth the time invested to make this changes and so on.

    At this point it all looks like a catch 22.

    Edit:

    Overall though, i thnk they have plenty of things they could monetize, like the wardrobes system, etc. And was always wonderning why wouldn't they do that. The only thing i came up was that the prices would be like the store ones, which means way to high and not many would even bother.

    If you have hungerds of single pieces of wardrobe, you can easily put small price tags on each peice and a bungle for whole set that is a bit less than if bought seperately. But if we're looking at 600+ or even 1k+ credits for one, yeah, then don't wonder why your sales are so low.
    Last edited by Jotunn; 03-03-2017 at 08:04 AM.

  5. #5
    Rift Master notawaifu's Avatar
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    6. For the love of RNG gods, make lockboxes more appealing!
    Fill the boxes with a lot more things. Have a standard rotation of purple minions, cool costume items, random pet skins, random non event mounts, random currencies, red pots. Remove all the crap from the boxes.

    When you open a box you should feel good every time. You should get something of some value. Of course you will still want to uber rare mounts or whatever the event is. And since you like reskinning things. Add in another uber, uber rare mount on top: that has a glowing gold aura or something.

    eg. Box might have a Pink Budgie but the uber rare is a Pink Budgie with a glowing Pink aura with hearts floating up.

    ~ a box could look like:

    [Transcendent] Uber Lovely Budgie
    [Relic] Lovely Budgie, a full event Wardrobe set
    [Epic] Lovely Wardobe Piece, random mount,
    [Rare] Epic Minion, transcendent Vial, Raid Currencies, high tier pet skin, high tier companions, high tier minions, high tier dimension items (relating to the event preferably)
    [Uncommon] World + pvp Currencies, random wardrobe pieces, low tier pet skin, random epic+ dim items (things that are either plat expensive or hard to find). some random Relic/ Epicartifacts that the opener doesn't have,

    ~ I don't know how the rolls work. But with this it should be: You always get 2 UC (or 1 UC + 1 Ra), and 1 either, Re, E or, T. So you're getting three things. Two ok things and one chance at something great or something amazing. Obviously not make it a 1/3 for the final 3 tiers; weigh them appropriately (Trans <1%, Relic 1%, Epic the rest%,)

    ~ Add in a new lock box only item. Artifact Wallet to Screen button: is a single use charge. When used you can pick any artifact set to complete. / Or it just a free use of the 'Draw!' button on any set.

    ~ List every, single, damn item in the boxes rotation. and a vague game related term, or just give us percent values, on getting the things inside.

    ~ Sell older lockboxes at higher prices without the uber mounts in them in the lockbox menu. And rotate them to the front pages every week / when a new mount/lockbox is introduced. Have each box include their own unique 'random' item pools they pick from.

    This was an example but the point is. More work into cosmetics and drop the "cosmetics don't make money." Many games survive on it alone... You're going to have to actually put work into this so I doubt it'll ever come to fruition.

    7. Last but not least: make Patron great again more appealing.
    Give them the ability to pick what server they log into.

    //

    Sell the soul packs per calling =

    Mage pack: Harb, Arb, Frost
    Last edited by notawaifu; 03-03-2017 at 08:59 AM.

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    Here's an idea: put "micro" back into micro transaction. I often look for something small to treat myself with but when I see price tags of LOL, OMG and WTF I close the store again. Micro transaction is 99 cents and not 5 bucks.

    A lot of the stuff in the store is way over priced in real world currency. Be less greedy and I'm sure more of us little minnows will buy. Unless the whales buy so much that the company can ignore the swarm of minnows.

    There are a lot of items I would buy if they were reasonably priced but right now I'm passing cause I'd like to feel that I'm getting value for my money.

    Also, Patron: make Patron great again! There are currently no raids out so I have no real need for the currency boost. The little bit of soul mends I have to pay... meh, whatever. There were TONS of really good suggestions last year from your customers on how to do that. And yes, a credit stipend, which seems to be the industry standard nowadays, would go a long way towards this goal (among many other things).

  7. #7
    Ascendant Laeti's Avatar
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    Thank you all for the support and suggestions!

    There's one more thing that I forgot to mention, and it's something that has been brought up before but never saw the light of day (although it was never promised to be released).

    In some way, I think Fragment inventory "bags" are the result of this idea (even though it has its flaws - identical frags don't stack, and there's way too little bag space for the current drop ratio). However it's there, and it could also be worked with in order to monetize some of the QoL needs. As you can see from the poll, the whole idea of having separate bags for specific items is equally popular among different types of players. But since fragments are pretty much mandatory for endgame (while dim items, arties and crafting mats aren't), it doesn't seem too unfair to have a credit price tag on those bags (and initially that was the idea, since it's purely QoL).

    To make the whole thing even more appealing, we could have those bags upgradable via credits, so people could start with buying a "standard" bag, but then upgrade it to "medium", and then to "large" (and then maybe even a HUGE one lol).

    The key here, IMO, should be the approach we have with dimensions. When you first get a key, it has a very small item count. You can upgrade it all the way up to tier 5 (you don't need to but it's always great to have more room, right?). First couple upgrades are pretty cheap (hello microtransactions), but then t4 and t5 are more and more expensive (with t5 sometimes being unreasonably expensive plat-wise, but quite bearable credit-wise). Now, with the bags, an upgrade should only be pricey if the upgrade itself really makes a difference (like in a dimension the upgrade from 100 to 300 items is rather cheap, but the one from 1k items to 2k is expensive, which makes total sense). This way, you'll pretty much keep everyone happy:

    - people only invest in the bags they really need;
    - depending on how much specific bag space they need, people would either invest in multiple small/medium bags or at least one HUGE bag, either way you'll have lots of people investing into it if the starting price is reasonable;
    - add bags to lockboxes;
    - have patron discounts on upgrades;
    - have titles and/or cute little fluff gifts for upgrading to "HUGE";
    - and whatever else to make this better.

    I wouldn't bring this up if there wasn't anything similar already in the game, but Fragment bags do seem like this very idea applied to one aspect of the game (and if it is, again, it won't be something you'd need to make from scratch).
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  8. #8
    BMX
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    How about getting the raids out and new PvP maps etc. Energize the player base to get em active again. Dormant players don't spend much, do they...

    Bring value to the forefront and promote the game vigorously, you'll see the revenue stream increase dramatically.

  9. #9
    General of Telara
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    Here are some of my idea's. People love cosmetics. Cash in on this Trion(Pun intended).

    1) Mounts. Don't lock them behind a lockbox. Put them right up in the store for creds.

    2)Introduce something new, like....Mount Skins. I hear a lot of people saying they would pay big $$ if they could use different skins for mounts, or at the very least usable dyes.

    3)more pet skins. You got the right idea last week, Trion. Add more.

    4)Illusion transformations. You have a few in the game, and I personally love them. Snog, Mech, Artifacts, Shambler. These are cool transformations.

    5)Enable a way to dye weapons.
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    I still just want a "mount" that just makes my character itself run and jump like a mount. You know that moment when you mount, but the graphic of you mount doesn't show yet because it's still loading, but you already run at its speed? That, I want that and would pay credits.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Laeti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordkata View Post
    Here are some of my idea's. People love cosmetics. Cash in on this Trion(Pun intended).

    Mounts. Don't lock them behind a lockbox. Put them right up in the store for creds.
    The elusive "how to make everyone happy" here would be putting the mounts in lockboxes however bringing them to the store on a regular basis for those who refuse to gamble and/or spend too much plat on a mount.

    Say we have a Red Winged Tusker mount currently in lockboxes (not giving any ideas here); lockboxes are on the store for three weeks giving everyone who'd prefer to gamble and get it asap the time to do it; after three weeks the mount goes in the store for another week for those who'd prefer direct purchases. Might do this month cycle or wait longer between the box and direct sales to give people more time to enjoy their mounts (but not too long otherwise the excitement would wear off especially if there's a new mount otw).

    On top of that, put a Blue Winged Tusker on Affinity store as well for patrons willing to wait and pay $15 a month.

    There you go, 3 potential sources of making money off one thing instead of just 1. As far as I know, other games do the 'lockbox+store' sales quite successfully.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xlavius View Post
    I still just want a "mount" that just makes my character itself run and jump like a mount. You know that moment when you mount, but the graphic of you mount doesn't show yet because it's still loading, but you already run at its speed? That, I want that and would pay credits.
    This one made me laugh.
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  13. #13
    Ascendant Laeti's Avatar
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    I would like to add to this thread by suggesting a change to credit packs in the cash shop.

    As Leocadia mentioned earlier in the comments,

    Here's an idea: put "micro" back into micro transaction. I often look for something small to treat myself with but when I see price tags of LOL, OMG and WTF I close the store again. Micro transaction is 99 cents and not 5 bucks.
    This goes not only for overpriced items (which is still an issue, especially with lockboxes), but for credit packs as well. Currently the packs start at $5 or 5, which rewards 750 credits per pack. The thing is, there are still plenty of items in the store that don't require spending this much, in fact some start as low as few credits per piece. Now other games have their "credit" packs starting at $2-3 per smallest (but still decent) amount of "credits".

    What I suggest is adding more options to BoA and tradable credit packs.

    - Add smaller credit packs for purchase starting at $1-3 for lower amount of credits. That would make more people buy credits on regular basis since even a couple $ difference makes a difference for many people (especially if you really don't need more credits at the moment - forcing people to spend more than they currently need often makes them think of not spending at all);

    - If possible, generally add more options to the credit packs on the store, let people spend $7 or $15 in addition to $5 and $20 - more options on the store, more people finding the option that currently works for them, more people spending cash on credits, profit.

    - Add other options to the tradable credit packs too, a smaller pack for a lower price, and larger packs for a higher price. Let people buy and sell less\more credits depending on how much they can afford at the moment and how much plat they need. Make it work the same way store packs work now - reward more credit (bonus) for larger packs to encourage trading them with other people; at the same time, rework smaller packs to reflect the bonus system (start at $2 -> $5 -> $10 with every next pack having bonus credits in, making the $10 REX have more credits for its price). This would make buying and selling bigger packs more attractive for those who need more credits immediately, but will give people more options for managing their cash spendings and in-game currency trades.

    Additionally, do away with plat sinks and plat nerfs - you want more people buying credits, let them have a way to afford it without turning into human bots.



    tldr Credit pack system (both tradable and BoA) needs a revamp towards adding more and more options in order to attract more customers. Introducing a larger, more flexible "price pool" would only increase the profits.


    P.S. Thank you for listening to the sale ideas and adding more fluff sales to the game! Now there's still plenty of good ideas here, hope we'll see more of them making their way into the game.
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  14. #14
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    Default Great suggestions in this thread....

    Rift used to operate this way (mostly). There were a lot of wonderful items- PvP wardrobe items, certain dimension items that you could buy or only win in boxes, mounts, companions, etc. The mindset as Laeti noted of "pay or else" seems to be driving a lot of the decisions- which is definately not fun for players. I understand that dev time is precious- and behind- but frankly with a shrinking player base some solid shinies should be added to patron or lockboxes to aid in retention- and perhaps generate a bit more cash. Contests that solo or groups can enter would be fun- best guild dimension (guild dim gets a trophy or some such thing), or personal bests, or costume shows or pub dimension crawls, or *something* that would stimulate interest- and garner a bit of cash by charging a small entry fee (of plat perhaps) and having an award only obtainable via the contest (a special robe, a special companion, a blue ribbon, etc). Make it a title as well if won. The mechanics of these things are already in game and the art for an item should not be labor intensive. Hang on your players Trion. Too many have left!

  15. #15
    BMX
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    Cut to the chase... Put some effort in and bring the playerbase VALUE and they'll up the revenue.
    There ya have it. :P

    News Flash from AP News:

    Inactives are buying credits and patron at record levels! Reasons for this have not been determined by officials at Trion as of press time.

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