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Thread: DEVS - Are you listening?

  1. #16
    Plane Walker Clowd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archcomponent View Post
    Do you really think that 4.1 is both going to contain the 10 man and be on live in February? Having one of the bosses on PTS is certainly good and well, but I am unsure that they appear to be moving at a clip to make that time frame a reality.
    I currently believe that 4.1 will contain the raid, and will release in late February.

    Tartaric Depths is fairly far along asset-wise, and presumably, most of the bosses are at some level of completion. Currently, 1 boss is available for test, and 2 others are completely modeled and textured (though they don't have animation files yet). Since this appears to be a 4-5 boss raid, I can see the entire zone being ready for testing in early February, followed by a release at the end of the month.

    That being said, I do think early March is a fair candidate for release as well, but I think that depends on how TD testing goes, and if we get Northern Tenebrean Schism and/or the Fortress of the Apocalypse siege.
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  2. #17
    Champion of Telara Ongar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clowd View Post
    That being said, I do think early March is a fair candidate for release as well, but I think that depends on how TD testing goes, and if we get Northern Tenebrean Schism and/or the Fortress of the Apocalypse siege.
    Whats save to say is that a raid release +-4 months after xpac launch, takes a lot of momentum out of the game.

    If we look back at MoM, that was a very controversial raid, with a negative impact on the raiding scene as a whole. After MoM there should have been a filler like "(I)EE, The Return of Regulos" for those still interested in raiding in NT. However throwing out a raid like CoA that thematically belongs in this xpac and would have been an ok "starter raid", rather than a typical "end of the xpac raid", seems like a misplacement.

    If CoA launched 2-3 weeks after the new xpac release as TDQ style starter raid, and TD as more advanded GA style raid in March or even April, there would be that momentum thats so important for the game.
    Last edited by Ongar; 01-16-2017 at 11:33 AM.

  3. #18
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    Just a guess, but I don't think the raid will come right at the launch of 4.1. Probably will open in a hotfix a few weeks after. Going to take a long bit to iron out the bugs and get the balance right, and I don't see them delaying the rest of the stuff in 4.1 for it.

  4. #19
    Champion of Telara Veldan's Avatar
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    Bug reports and the lack of response and/or action to them has been an issue since RIFT launch. At this point, it's safe to say it's not something that will ever improve.

  5. #20
    Rift Chaser Letobrick's Avatar
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    To the OP: Great Posts, and thanks for sharing from the heart. I certainly share a measured sense of frustration over what has been happening with the game lately even well before SFP was released. The biggest disappointment for me was the way SFP was touted as a paid and therefore premium expansion. It hasn't felt that way, at least so far. I believe the expansion was released too soon, with not enough time and manpower given to release a quality product. For the record, I believe the Rift team has great devs who are trying their best given the limitations placed on them. However, moving forward it does seem all signs point to reduced funding/resources and streamlining operations/costs to keep the game running for the dwindling few left that continue to support it. They no longer have the resources to develop the level and quality of content they had before in previous years.

    It is disappointing that we have a CM that dismisses our concerns as subjective and alot of us are left at a fork on the road on where to go next. We have been basically told if we leave, the game will fine without us, and maybe they're right. So what to do? The way I see it, there are two choices: stay and continue to support the game thru thick and thin or move on and maybe come back and see if things improve down the road. It's not an easy decision, but if you have a backup MMO in mind that'd you like to check out, maybe now would be a good time to do so. Or you can choose to stay and perhaps participate on the PTS, providing feedback to a small (but dedicated) team on content as it develops. Ultimately the final decision is for each of us to decide. All the best.
    Last edited by Letobrick; 01-16-2017 at 09:38 PM.

  6. #21
    Ascendant Meteorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post
    Raiding is becoming obsolete in WoW for the most part at the moment with the introduction of mythic dungeons.
    You mean to say they not only have lots of dungeons but multiple difficulty levels of them, up to and including really, really hard?

    It's almost as if they understand that players like to have a progression path that's deeper than a week-long to keep them interested.

    I wish we'd had an expansion like that.
    Last edited by Meteorblade; 01-17-2017 at 12:41 AM.

  7. #22
    Champion of Telara Ongar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meteorblade View Post
    You mean to say they not only have lots of dungeons but multiple difficulty levels of them, up to and including really, really hard?

    It's almost as if they understand that players like to have a progression path that's deeper than a week-long to keep them interested.

    I wish we'd had an expansion like that.
    Be careful what you wish for.

    The reality is that you see advertisements like this "boosting ONLY Maw of Souls 8-12 Key, 3 Chests, your key". What happens is that top guilds farm the same dungeon with the shortest duration that gives the same rewards (3 end chests, no boss drops) like the longest dungeon would over and over again. Hundreds of runs per week, every week for artifact power, legendaries and to a lesser extent gear.

    And this massive grind is mandatory for competitive raiders. The first raid wasnt tuned with that behaviour in mind, you just had to do it to because the competition was doing it. The second raid however "Trial of Valor" pre ilvl buff, pre nerf was tuned with a 24/7 Mythic++ Artifact Power grind in mind (0.1 % raid guild Mythic completion prenerf, post ilvl buff).

    Rift doesnt need some experimental modes (I think we had a good share over the years).
    What Rift needs is a mixture of new dungeon/raid content and upscaled old content. And there shouldnt be a situation like in NT where you had 3 new raids for T1, a fully rehased T2 and 2 new raids for T3, with CoA thematically and difficulty wise rather belonging as starter raid for the current xpac. So a bit more long term planning could be helpful.
    Last edited by Ongar; 01-17-2017 at 04:19 AM.

  8. #23
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    They should make older raiding content relevant and not forgotten (like Planebreaker) with access by 10.. now they have personal loot. You can bet that only a very small percentage of the player base ever got to see them.

  9. #24
    Ascendant bitnine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ongar View Post
    And this massive grind is mandatory for competitive raiders.
    But to be fair, those same raiders would consider maxing out all of their fragments mandatory if there were transported to Rift.

    I'd actually take chain dungeon speedruns over that.

  10. #25
    Champion of Telara Ongar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitnine View Post
    But to be fair, those same raiders would consider maxing out all of their fragments mandatory if there were transported to Rift.

    I'd actually take chain dungeon speedruns over that.
    Sure, its bascially what always happens with any system that makes your char stronger and has no weekly caps.

    For example back in Classic there were guilds requiring that you have your PA almost maxed and in SL there were guilds that required you to have done all those rep grinds. Actually I had an offer joining such a guild under that condition and was like no thx.

    We need to keep in mind that not too many people can reserve 4-6 evenings/week for progress raiding and grind fragment power or whatever its called on top of that.
    Last edited by Ongar; 01-17-2017 at 06:01 AM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ongar View Post
    .

    We need to keep in mind that not too many people can reserve 4-6 evenings/week for progress raiding and grind fragment power or whatever its called on top of that.
    You are missing that there are also lots of people who can and have done this for years on here. We are now getting the shaft. My guild raided 4 nights a week and had content scheduled for the other nights (wf, cq, rifts, experts). We are (were?) a big fun group that has consistently been part of all Rift has to offer from day 1. There are a number of other guilds like this. The problem is that even though the devs wont admit this it appears they are trying to kill off these guilds/drive away these players in order to move to something different.

  12. #27
    Champion of Telara Ongar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dundare View Post
    You are missing that there are also lots of people who can and have done this for years on here. We are now getting the shaft. My guild raided 4 nights a week and had content scheduled for the other nights (wf, cq, rifts, experts). We are (were?) a big fun group that has consistently been part of all Rift has to offer from day 1. There are a number of other guilds like this. The problem is that even though the devs wont admit this it appears they are trying to kill off these guilds/drive away these players in order to move to something different.
    Thats s sad to hear. However if they would like to get away from raiding completly, they wouldnt develop or new raid. There are MMOs out there that really put raiding on the backburner and you dont get a new raid for a whole xpac.

    I think what they eventually underestimated was, that people these days burn through the levelling content and then are "ready to go" and cannot wait +-4 months for the first raid. Especially keeping guilds together under those circumstances isnt too easy.

    There should have been upscaled filler content for sure, but at this point we can only hope that the new raid is that good, that it was worth the wait for those still around/willing to return.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zojah View Post
    Please Trion. I don't want to do it I've avoided it for all these years so far.

    Oh for the love of god don't do it. Do this instead
    http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/index.shtml
    I've played both and FFXI is much better
    As long as expansion packs and Essential Edition are in the Rift Store for cash only purchases and are bind on pickup or bind on account only, then the game will be pay to win. Once you can buy them with store credits or can place them on the AH then the game won't be pay to win.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ongar View Post
    I think what they eventually underestimated was, that people these days burn through the levelling content and then are "ready to go" and cannot wait +-4 months for the first raid. Especially keeping guilds together under those circumstances isnt too easy.
    If they did underestimate, it was while people were telling them over and over that what they had planned was not going to work. And for most of us, we had no idea they were going to make the experts so easy, which was an entirely new meta for Rift, and ended up making the problem that much worse. I honestly assumed they were going to tune the experts so difficult so they would keep people busy until the raid was ready. But instead I had everything I needed in < 30 runs which took a couple weeks tops. Of course the class balance being in the worst state ever in rift complicated things further. But all of these things, should have thrown up massive red flags about launching when there were still people doing CoA and MoM consistently. But for whatever reason it didn't...

    Keeping guilds together under those circumstances is impossible, not just difficult.
    Last edited by Rhumble; 01-17-2017 at 01:43 PM.

  15. #30
    Shadowlander Natarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendun View Post
    Trion is listening. We as players see the multitude of complaints and want to see reaction to that. Trion hears those, but only as side noise to their main revenue stream.


    Putting an exclusive reward (mount or wardrobe bundle) in a rng cash box (gambling) takes so much less work than developing playable content, and more players will pay for it. Space those cash spikes out with simplistic repetitive tasks (Manugo was not an accident, nor minions) that offer reinforcement (achievement points and gear unlocks) and you've created the same situation that keeps people glued to slot machines. This pattern is low-cost and higher-reward.
    You are right that we do want to hear a response, I personally would like to see more than a general macro'd response to these issues, to me it feels that these concerns are not being taken seriously and are continually being brushed off as "you can't please everyone" which is nothing more dismissive at this stage.

    You've hit the nail on the head with the gambling style marketing - however you are also more likely to make money from this style of marketing if you can keep people coming through the door rather than a one time, week long visitor. This is what I mean by appealing to the raiders as they will ultimately be the ones to stay around for longer, keeping those spinning doors of profit revolving. If the lights inside are dimming, it's not as enticing to pop that $$$ in the machine anymore.


    Quote Originally Posted by Clowd View Post

    The Rift Team is definitely aware of the PvE issues, and the lack of content right now. I don't want to make excuses, but the team was definitely on an extreme time crunch to launch the expansion with what it already had.


    Here is what we know is coming in 4.1 for PvE. I'll leave it to you to determine if this is enough.
    • Tartaric Depths - Tier 1 10-man raid
    • Intrepid: Gyel Fortress - Expert 5-man
    • Eternal Weapon questline

    Potentially in 4.1 for PvE
    • Tenebrean Schism zone (I've datamined a Tenebrean Themed colossus)
    • Fortress of the Apocalypse Fortress Siege (no word yet on this)

    I am not so sure they are aware of just how much of an issue the current lack of end-game PvE content really is. It still feels like a calm metered response that "you're just overthinking things" or "nothing to worry about" while the office is burning to the ground behind them. Saying that everything is not as bad as some are saying does not make it less so.

    Now this does not mean that they truly do not know just how bad these issues seem to be - this is just my interpretation of the image that is currently being portrayed to us - the consumer.

    On a side note with those fortress sieges - I'll believe it when I see it unfortunately because we have been promised the addition of these since week two of the expansion when people had explored everything already and realised some of the content promised wasn't necessarily there in game right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harumph View Post
    Just a guess, but I don't think the raid will come right at the launch of 4.1. Probably will open in a hotfix a few weeks after. Going to take a long bit to iron out the bugs and get the balance right, and I don't see them delaying the rest of the stuff in 4.1 for it.
    I agree completely - I do not see the raid being released right on launch of 4.1, as much as I would love this to be the case. While i completely expect there to be many bugs and issues when it is released I do not feel that it is even remotely unreasonable to hold the expectation that the release of new content should be in at least some level of functional order.


    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan View Post
    Bug reports and the lack of response and/or action to them has been an issue since RIFT launch. At this point, it's safe to say it's not something that will ever improve.
    Agreed that I have seen nothing but bugs from the beginning, however I do feel that the the issue has become worse over time. Also, just because this is something that has always been an issue doesn't mean that we as the consumer should simply roll over and take it "because it's always been this way." This exact thought pattern is what has led me to create this thread in the first place - that nothing can be fixed or changed if nothing/or not enough is said. I feel that many have come to just accept that they do not feel there is reward (fixing of the bug) in reporting the issues anymore, and that to me is simply saddening to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Letobrick View Post
    For the record, I believe the Rift team has great devs who are trying their best given the limitations placed on them.
    I agree completely - often they are also simply the messenger and as frustrated as I am by what I am seeing happen to this game I love, I do appreciate the efforts they are making to try better the game with the resources they are given. Often i believe they are often the unfortunate messenger that is being shot down rather than the person actually controlling these decisions. My hope is that these threads find a way to break through what feels like a wall between management/creation of this game and the consumers so we can all finally be on the same damned page.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhumble View Post
    If they did underestimate, it was while people were telling them over and over that what they had planned was not going to work. And for most of us, we had no idea they were going to make the experts so easy, which was an entirely new meta for Rift, and ended up making the problem that much worse. I honestly assumed they were going to tune the experts so difficult so they would keep people busy until the raid was ready. But instead I had everything I needed in < 30 runs which took a couple weeks tops. Of course the class balance being in the worst state ever in rift complicated things further. But all of these things, should have thrown up massive red flags about launching when there were still people doing CoA and MoM consistently. But for whatever reason it didn't...

    Keeping guilds together under those circumstances is impossible, not just difficult.
    This is exactly it, the signs have been there and so have the screaming protests of people who were aware enough of the game and the way in which the game was most likely to succeed and were able to predict exactly this happening. This is where the air of sadness has originated as it feels like there is nothing they can do to save something they love so much.
    This expansion has cost me guilds and friends alike and the few that remain are scrapping the bottom of the barrel to keep themselves entertained enough to wait out this storm.
    Nataryaa@Laethys, Nataya@Laethys, Natsara@Laethys, Natanna@Laethys, Natsana@Deepwood

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