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Thread: Can Rift be saved?

  1. #106
    Ascendant Laeti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meteorblade View Post
    So, you think it's okay for a raid leader get slower queue times because some DPS doing 20K got upset when they were kicked?
    With LFR, first off, I don't think the RL can actually kick a player without launching the vote to kick (so if that happens, the kicked player would have issues with all those who voted yes), and second - the karma votes only begin upon completing the raid and are anonymous, which has a potential for abuse many of us are concerned about, but in the case you describe it has no effect on the RL whatsoever - even if he/she keeps the baddie in the raid until the last boss, only then they can vote on karma, and the baddie wouldn't know exactly who downvoted them. So the only time when RL can be subject for future karma downvoting from said baddie is if they message the baddie after the raid saying something like "hey you there bad player I just downvoted you and it felt good lol". Other than that, whenever you, as a raid leader, see a bad player you can either vote kick them or let them stay the entire raid and the downvote them without any consequences.
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  2. #107
    General of Telara
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    I am one of the 2 GM's of a guild on EU Gelidra called Unity(CHII), which I think is on the same server as Harshamllows if I am not mistaken. We are also an old guild having been around since day 1 of launch. I have seen many ups and downs over the nearly 6 years of Rift. There were bad times; the free to play transition, the balance problems (warriors not scaling with AP doh), the CQ luanch and dissapointment, the questionable business practices, the halving of the dev team post SL etc. There were also good times; the old world events like HK opening, ember isle, Master Mode fun, epic feeling raids, constant updates and of course... path of the hurricane.... may you never be forgotten....

    We are quite a casual fun guild full of mostly older guys and gals too. We have a stable number on ranging from say 8-15 people. We have struggled through low points and enjoyed high points but always wanted to play Rift and looked forward to new updates. Now all we talk about is how badly let down we feel, how there is nothing to do and what potential games could we move to if the next patch doesn't deliver. For like the first time ever. It's bonkers man. There are one or two PvE focused MMO's coming up in the next year or so at least. Maybe they could provide what Rift no longer does.
    Last edited by Balidin; 01-21-2017 at 05:54 AM.

  3. #108
    Rift Chaser Sails's Avatar
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    Default Dunno if this was seen or not

    QUESTION REPOST:
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingensturm View Post
    Sadly this is so true.
    Last person i saw pulling 60k and linked the dmg parse in group the answer was : "**** noob i do double dps than with lvl 65 now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Meteorblade View Post
    I can assure you, not all players want to excel. It used to be the case that when I saw a DPS under-performing in an expert dungeon I'd link the DPS meters and give them advice on how to improve, suggest a more appropriate spec and so on. I even used to offer to take them to my training dummies dimension and show them. Almost without exception what I'd get back would be abuse. So much so that it got to the point where I no longer bothered even offering the [/dvice, I just accepted they were bad, put them on ignore (so they'd never be in my groups ever again) and moved on.
    If anyone other than these two has experience to advise, pls feel free to.

    As it pertains to players who DO want to excel, how do you know where the problem lies when a player is underperforming? How do they know if the problem is their spec, rotation, gear or if the abilities have been nerfed?
    Last edited by Sails; 01-21-2017 at 06:31 AM.
    10.7.19 *Out of the daze. Into something new.* - Rift is too far gone.-

  4. #109
    Ascendant Meteorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sails View Post
    As it pertains to players who DO want to excel, how do you know where the problem lies when a player is underperforming? How do they know if the problem is their spec, rotation, gear or if the abilities have been nerfed?
    When someone is underperforming in SPEs it's rarely their gear to blame. More often than not, the issue is with the spec they have chosen, not how well they play that spec. For instance, players choosing single-target specs for AOE / trash won't do well. Players choosing specs which rely on standing still / with long cast times won't do well with heavy movement such as the initial ramp in iDD.

    However, damage meters don't only allow you to see the overall DPS, they also allow you to drill down and see which abilities are being used to result in that DPS. Sometimes it's easy to spot, e.g. players using only single-target abilities on AOE packs, players using AOE abilities on single-target encounters, but also to see abilities that should never be used, e.g. if you see a marksman using Fan Out.

    All of those players can easily be helped, e.g. suggest a more appropriate spec, a better rotation, and so on, but they're so rarely accepting of such advice that it becomes like hitting your head against a brick wall, eventually you just stop doing it because all you're doing is giving yourself headaches.

    The final category is players like this one, from an iDD run I tanked on my cleric this morning...



    He was not AFK, link dead or dead, his spec was inquisitor and his 'rotation' was fairly uncomplex in that he cast a single bolt of judgement. At that point you know that the best course of action is just to put that player on ignore and vote them out at your earliest opportunity.

  5. #110
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    at this point if we don't change devs to ones who care enough the game will die. They relised content that was not ready and had nothing to do in it but 3 dungeons. I am a guild leader my guild went from 15-20 people online while lvling and starting experts to oh we have the gear and rep now what? to having 2-4 people online its sad. Trion needs to start reading these and fixing issues starting with the devs that are here to do content and to fix things. Just my opion and im sure this message will be deleted by trion soon.
    Fearless Guild Leader

  6. #111
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    I understand they are doing away with the ability to create Hybrid Builds? If that happens the small group I currently play with intend to leave. We spend allot of time playing around with the souls and finding new things we can do with them. It's the design brilliance Rift does better than anyone else. If that goes away then it become just another old game without enough content.

  7. #112
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    They would take a load of pressure off themselves if they made old raids like Infinity Gate - Planebreaker Bastion relevant to current level 10 man with personal rewards. I am sure there are a lot of folks who never set eyes on the bosses. It should not be IAs.

    Players should not be testers. That is where it fails. The majority only go there to see whats new and testing is a long way down the list although there are exceptions. The stuff that gets to the PTS is way below the testing stage and live becomes Beta. Thus the people get an awful impression of the game.

  8. #113
    Ascendant Meteorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sails View Post
    As it pertains to players who DO want to excel, how do you know where the problem lies when a player is underperforming? How do they know if the problem is their spec, rotation, gear or if the abilities have been nerfed?
    Here's another example. This parse is from two trash mob packs pulled together after boss one in iDD, i.e. 7 mobs...



    All three rogues were playing Marksman. As you can see, it's not effective, as I'm doing almost the same DPS as two of them combined, whilst tanking.

    That's not a gear issue. That's not even particularly an issue with how they're playing Marksman. It's an issue that they've chosen Marksman instead of something that works well for AOE'ing. I've seen rogues in that section of the dungeon pull 500K+ DPS as Bladedancer. That's the sort of difference we're talking about, i.e. 100K versus 500K. This isn't some trivial, esoteric, marginal difference, it's a five-fold difference due to spec choice.

    Anyway, I'd been chatting in English in party chat so when I linked those numbers to the group, I guess the person who swore at me in French probably thought I wouldn't know what he'd said. That's the sort of reaction you can expect, just for pointing out that all three DPS were doing less damage than the tank. Of course, as I knew what he'd said, he went straight onto ignore and the group found themselves without a tank.

  9. #114
    Telaran
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    Default Can Rift be saved?

    the question you ask is wrong.

    it should be: can trion save rift

  10. #115
    Rift Chaser Sails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meteorblade View Post
    Here's another example. This parse is from two trash mob packs pulled together after boss one in iDD, i.e. 7 mobs...



    All three rogues were playing Marksman. As you can see, it's not effective, as I'm doing almost the same DPS as two of them combined, whilst tanking.

    That's not a gear issue. That's not even particularly an issue with how they're playing Marksman. It's an issue that they've chosen Marksman instead of something that works well for AOE'ing. I've seen rogues in that section of the dungeon pull 500K+ DPS as Bladedancer. That's the sort of difference we're talking about, i.e. 100K versus 500K. This isn't some trivial, esoteric, marginal difference, it's a five-fold difference due to spec choice.

    Anyway, I'd been chatting in English in party chat so when I linked those numbers to the group, I guess the person who swore at me in French probably thought I wouldn't know what he'd said. That's the sort of reaction you can expect, just for pointing out that all three DPS were doing less damage than the tank. Of course, as I knew what he'd said, he went straight onto ignore and the group found themselves without a tank.
    Wow that is pretty bad. Usually tanks come in dead last for dps. But for 3 people to be this far off...I'm curious if they were brand new to Rift (thus not so familiar with the soul tree) and dungeons in general. they'd have to know
    that their dps has to be far higher than the tank to bring bosses and mobs down and whatnot.
    Last edited by Sails; 01-21-2017 at 12:58 PM.
    10.7.19 *Out of the daze. Into something new.* - Rift is too far gone.-

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sails View Post
    Wow that is pretty bad. Usually tanks come in dead last for dps. But for 3 people to be this far off...I'm curious if they were brand new to Rift (thus not so familiar with the soul tree) and dungeons in general. they'd have to know
    that their dps has to be far higher than the tank to bring bosses and mobs down and whatnot.
    I think it's important to remember that people deciding how other people should play and then being rude about it doesn't help this or any game. Quite often people take their opinions way way to far. There are some people who will never be the best player, does that mean they shouldn't be able to play? There are people with disabilities, limitations and handicaps of one kind or another. You don't know who is on the other end of a keyboard when you start judging them. There are some people who try to help and that's awesome. There are some people who are rude because they can be and that sucks.

  12. #117
    Ascendant Meteorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonRhayne View Post
    I think it's important to remember that people deciding how other people should play and then being rude about it doesn't help this or any game. Quite often people take their opinions way way to far. There are some people who will never be the best player, does that mean they shouldn't be able to play? There are people with disabilities, limitations and handicaps of one kind or another. You don't know who is on the other end of a keyboard when you start judging them. There are some people who try to help and that's awesome. There are some people who are rude because they can be and that sucks.
    Not once have I ever asked for every single player to do stellar levels of DPS but I always expect vaguely competent levels of DPS.

    Frankly, I do not care why some players are bad. I only care that they are bad. I do not care which of the multiple criteria you suggested is the reason they're bad. I can only judge on results and if the result is that you can't do more than 50% of a tank's DPS, then I judge you to be bad, regardless of why.

    You're absolutely correct though that I have no right what-so-ever to say that other people shouldn't be able to play. I've never said so and never will. However, what I do have every right to say, is who I will play with. Look at the screenshots in this thread. You'll find examples of players doing between 2K and 32K DPS. They can play as much as they like, but it won't ever be with me again, because they went straight onto my ignore list.

    As for being rude, when posting the meters in party chat showing that the tank is out-DPS'ing all three DPS players, would you not consider it rude to be sworn at in French? I know I did and that player's also on my ignore list.
    Last edited by Meteorblade; 01-22-2017 at 02:19 AM.

  13. #118
    Rift Chaser Rivkah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonRhayne View Post
    I think it's important to remember that people deciding how other people should play and then being rude about it doesn't help this or any game. Quite often people take their opinions way way to far. There are some people who will never be the best player, does that mean they shouldn't be able to play? There are people with disabilities, limitations and handicaps of one kind or another. You don't know who is on the other end of a keyboard when you start judging them. There are some people who try to help and that's awesome. There are some people who are rude because they can be and that sucks.
    Whenever I try to help (suggesting AOE specs to spec into for trash, etc), I usually get ignored or I get a hostile response. Last expansion, I told a ranger to put on his buffs as he had none and was outdpsing him as a VK in full tank gear, and was told "f*ck you, c*nt, leave me alone and do your f*cking job."

    More often than not, the horribad players get completely triggered by someone pointing out their garbage performance. There are ways that Trion can minimize this frustration on both ends by making hurdles that players must overcome before being able to queue into grouped content, but they seem to have zero interest in improving the game in this regard.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meteorblade View Post
    Here's another example. This parse is from two trash mob packs pulled together after boss one in iDD, i.e. 7 mobs...



    All three rogues were playing Marksman. As you can see, it's not effective, as I'm doing almost the same DPS as two of them combined, whilst tanking.

    That's not a gear issue. That's not even particularly an issue with how they're playing Marksman. It's an issue that they've chosen Marksman instead of something that works well for AOE'ing. I've seen rogues in that section of the dungeon pull 500K+ DPS as Bladedancer. That's the sort of difference we're talking about, i.e. 100K versus 500K. This isn't some trivial, esoteric, marginal difference, it's a five-fold difference due to spec choice.

    Anyway, I'd been chatting in English in party chat so when I linked those numbers to the group, I guess the person who swore at me in French probably thought I wouldn't know what he'd said. That's the sort of reaction you can expect, just for pointing out that all three DPS were doing less damage than the tank. Of course, as I knew what he'd said, he went straight onto ignore and the group found themselves without a tank.
    Marksman for single target, blade dancer for AOE got it, thanks
    As long as expansion packs and Essential Edition are in the Rift Store for cash only purchases and are bind on pickup or bind on account only, then the game will be pay to win. Once you can buy them with store credits or can place them on the AH then the game won't be pay to win.

  15. #120
    Ascendant Laeti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonRhayne View Post
    I think it's important to remember that people deciding how other people should play and then being rude about it doesn't help this or any game. Quite often people take their opinions way way to far. There are some people who will never be the best player, does that mean they shouldn't be able to play? There are people with disabilities, limitations and handicaps of one kind or another. You don't know who is on the other end of a keyboard when you start judging them. There are some people who try to help and that's awesome. There are some people who are rude because they can be and that sucks.
    It's also important to remember while playing a group activity in an MMO that you're not just playing by yourself but with other people who, in a way, depend on how you're playing the game. I doubt anyone would judge how other people play solo (and if they would - they'd deserve to be rude to and put on the ignore list); however when a player signs up for a group activity, certain rules apply. DPS should dps, Tank should tank, Healer should heal. When a dps is doing less damage than a tank, the tank can't hold aggro and the healer can't even keep the tank up - something is terribly wrong, and if said players can't see it, it's perfectly normal to tell them. Obviously being rude is not acceptable, but so many people consider suggesting them help rude nowadays that even those who genuinely want to help just wash their hands of it because all they see is "f*ck off don't tell me what to do".
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