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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Feedback from the Community

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    Shield of Telara Necalli's Avatar
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    Default Feedback from the Community

    I fear for the future of Rift. Not solely because of SFP but a trend that has emerged since after the launch of SL. I am making this thread in hopes that not only will community be able to engage in a meaningful discussion about Rift but hopefully give the dev team a strong sense of where their product stands and how it can improve. This thread is not meant to bash the devs who work tirelessly on this game, nor is it an invitation to attack other forum members. The goal is have a discussion, not troll.

    I invite everyone to participate in the thread whether you agree, disagree, or give your own opinion. I suspect that the one thing the game needs more than anything right now is useful feedback from it's players.

    The SFP launch was a mess, and still maintains being one today. It shouldn't have been launched, it clearly wasn't ready. Minions and IAs, previously implemented systems broke when the game launched, but on top of the countless bugs and being unable to finish story quests, half of the features announced with expansion were not ready for the live client as in they were disabled at launch. Yes, there are always bugs at launch of a new game. That's nothing new, but there is a vast difference between bugs and launching with half the features of the expansion disabled.

    The devs know all of this and I'm not trying continue to hammer on about it, however this has been a consistent problem throughout SL, NMT, and now SFP. This needs to stop. I understand having a timetable but from here out can we adopt the "when it's ready" policy please? What it tells the community is that either the team doesn't care about the game (which I don't buy, why lose so much sleep over the game if you don't care) or that there are external forces pressuring to launch a half finished product. No matter the case it needs to end.

    My next bit is about the payment model. I think a payment model where you pay for wardrobe features, mounts, dimensions, souls, callings, expansions, zones, sagas, and the likes are fine. Why? Because you're either paying for cosmetic items that have no bearing on your character or you're paying for actual content or ways to modify existing content. And by paying for this you are encouraging devs to continue to produce either cool wardrobes or content. However I absolutely object to paying for player power and charges for the same reasons, because if we do pay them for it they will find more ways to lock player power and charges behind paywalls. Rift is also one of the most expensive games for new players to get into.

    While I'm on the subject of paying for items there is a massive list of items that need to be brought over into an account wide unlock. Meaning if I unlock something on one character, there needs to be an unlock on all of my characters. These items are role slots, bag slots, artifacts, wardrobe slots, mounts, books, fragment sets, companions, bank slots, shard vaults, expanded vault tabs, and any other unlocks I am forgetting.

    The reason why is because it is downright greedy for a company to make me pay for the same mount or bank slot, or role slot or whatever the object is multiple times. Especially considering the fact that Rift is going to be the last game in the industry to adopt the account wide unlocking system. Players love it too because it allows them to switch between characters at will and not have to drop $50 or more to get their favorite mounts, or pets, or just bring their character up to par with role slots.

    Another frustration I have is that Rift has fallen into this idea that the only good content it can produce is instanced content. That's not what Rift is about nor is it the direction it needs to go. I feel like the team has been caught up with trying to be WoW 2.0 instead of letting Rift focus on what it does well and expanding on that the game instead forces half finished 5-mans and raids on it's players. That's the only form of content that is being focused on and improved on.

    The problem is that Rift can't hold a candle to it's competition in that arena, it just simply doesn't have the money. Instead the game needs to refocus on it's roots which was open world content. Rifts, zone events, raid rifts, PvP rifts, crafting rifts, one time world events like River of Souls, massive world bosses like Volan. These are all things that Rift excels at and this is the content that should be focused on and released. It's what brought people to the game in the first place. In the vanilla launch no one was excited to be doing an instanced raid, the buzz was all about raid bosses in the open world. Or that open world PvP was what they were looking forward to.

    Hybrids need to be brought back with force. Another massive marketing campaign when the original game was launched was the "build your own class" and "create your perfect class" idea. That was exactly what players did and they loved it. Hybrids were the entire reason this style of talent tree was chosen instead of something else, it afforded players the greatest amount of control over how their character developed and played.

    Masteries and legendary abilities just cannot replace allowing hybrids to flourish, to be frank they don't work they're just changing which sub-souls I choose. If we're going to be forced into 61 point builds then it's time to change which talent system we use, at least if we change it souls that we don't see regularly used might see more play time. If 61 point builds have a hard time competing with hybrids, it's okay because that's the entire point of this system.

    The grinds in this game are excessive, I have no problem getting my grind on for a while and really earning equipment but when you can grind for months on end for single pieces of gear and then throw their upgrades behind paywalls it's not only frustrating but drives players away. Not to mention that players feel like they're being taken advantage of when there are obvious painful grinds put in place for upgrades or gear in general but these grinds can be bypassed with a few bucks here and there.

    Stat sticks are out of hand too, a lot of them seem to be in place only to drive the grinding agenda above. Currently in game there are 35 stat stick slots. Stat sticks being items that have no cosmetic value or do not modify gameplay in an different way. Now some of these slots can be modified to be interesting for players. What if synergy crystals gave you access to an ability not normally available to your set of DPS souls? What if planar foci actually modified your abilities and inflicted different types of damage along with your abilities? What if rings came in sets and if you had both rings you gained a shield for 10% of your health every seconds? It isn't hard to do something with these items but they need to be addressed.

    The Primalist needs its last four souls, it really should have had it's last souls finished before the expansion was launched. As far as I can tell that calling has been left out to dry, which is sad to see considering it has the potential to be a really cool calling. It already is to a certain extent.

    PvP souls need to be brought back. Half the reason PvP is so incredibly imbalanced is because there is no soul that players take for PvP that the team can use to tune. If you have to, give the PvP soul its own set of talent points. No one is going to object to having access to another soul full time in PvP.

    If we are going to be stuck without hybrids being viable then we need to see the team finish balancing the souls in the game. The soul reworks that were going on for some time during NMT need to be finished. That or just change talent systems like I suggested before.

    The last thing, and probably the most frustrating thing for me is the lack of clear communication from the team. My list of problems here aren't unique to just me. A lot of people that I've interacted with in the forums and in-game share my thoughts about some or all of the subjects. Now with SFP being the hot mess it is, the players would like some answers.

    Why was the expansion pushed half finished? What is the direction of the game the devs are hoping to take? What is going to happen with hybrids, are there any chances of them coming back or is the team done messing with those? What is the goals of the devs at this point for Rift? What is happening with world content? There are a lot of questions that need answers, otherwise with everything that has happened over the last couple of years coupled with the silence from the team about what is really going on tells the players the team doesn't care about the game or their players. To be frank, I'm not going to pay for a game where the devs can't be bothered to actually communicate what is happening and why.
    Last edited by Necalli; 12-01-2016 at 01:43 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Darkcleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necalli View Post
    I fear for the future of Rift. .............. Now with SFP being the hot mess it is, the players would like some answers.

    There are a lot of questions that need answers, otherwise with everything that has happened over the last couple of years coupled with the silence from the team about what is really going on tells the players the team doesn't care about the game or their players.
    Totally agree! To mitigate further damage already done, answers and open dialogue right now , this week...is a must and would go a long way right now for the paying customer/player-base. I can only imagine the devs are quite stressed out as they want their work to be a success also but are now stuck trying to fix all these issue while product is live in production -it's going to be incredibly difficult. <shakes head>

    They clearly know how we feel - more importantly what is broken. We shall see...

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    Ascendant Linolea's Avatar
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    A key bugbear for me, which I think deserves a place on the list, is the ridiculous (and lazy IMO) reliance on RNG in this game. It was pretty bad in NT, but planar fragments have taken it to a whole new plat-sucking level.

    You buy a chest (thankfully I haven't yet) - the frags are completely random and may all be useless to you.
    Maybe you get lucky and get a decent frag from a chest and upgrade it (infuse) and get a stat you didn't want. Now you have a frag not worth upgrading anymore and the plat you wasted getting there.

    I thought they leaned something from the sparkle quest debacle, at least seperating the sparkle chests into DPS/heal vs tank. Apparently nothing was learned. Frags may not even be useful to the class you open the chest with... seriously WTF? Make them several times the tower mark cost, but please make it so you can actually use them.

    No way, no how, am I wasting precious tower marks on planar frag chests until I have received all other items I need them for...
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  4. #4
    Shield of Telara Necalli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkcleros View Post
    Totally agree! To mitigate further damage already done, answers and open dialogue right now , this week...is a must and would go a long way right now for the paying customer/player-base. I can only imagine the devs are quite stressed out as they want their work to be a success also but are now stuck trying to fix all these issue while product is live in production -it's going to be incredibly difficult. <shakes head>

    They clearly know how we feel - more importantly what is broken. We shall see...
    I don't want to be the angry mob with pitch forks and torches banging on the door. At the same time though I don't think it's unfair or unreasonable to ask for genuine and clear communication about what went wrong. The expansion wasn't ready for the live client, so why was it released? The thing is, sometimes the team will talk about it in very vague terms to try to help and say something like "oh well launches go bad" which is almost condescending in a way because we're all very well aware that MMO launches or any game launches for that matter can go bad. Clearly the problems with SFP was more than a few bugs that were missed though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linolea View Post
    A key bugbear for me, which I think deserves a place on the list, is the ridiculous (and lazy IMO) reliance on RNG in this game. It was pretty bad in NT, but planar fragments have taken it to a whole new plat-sucking level.

    You buy a chest (thankfully I haven't yet) - the frags are completely random and may all be useless to you.
    Maybe you get lucky and get a decent frag from a chest and upgrade it (infuse) and get a stat you didn't want. Now you have a frag not worth upgrading anymore and the plat you wasted getting there.

    I thought they leaned something from the sparkle quest debacle, at least seperating the sparkle chests into DPS/heal vs tank. Apparently nothing was learned. Frags may not even be useful to the class you open the chest with... seriously WTF? Make them several times the tower mark cost, but please make it so you can actually use them.

    No way, no how, am I wasting precious tower marks on planar frag chests until I have received all other items I need them for...
    You know, I thought about this, I didn't add it for two reasons. The first one being that the RNG systems in place are also a huge part of the grind in the game. I suspect that in order to reduce the grind in the game a lot of these RNG systems would have to either be altered to be more friendly or the team would just have to remove them.

    The second reason I didn't add them was because of the fact that most of these RNG systems can be bypassed with money which comes back to my argument about the devs making more ways to gate player power instead of making content. If they were to remove the ways they can put a price tag on player power, a lot of these RNG systems would probably vaporize into the ether.
    Last edited by Necalli; 11-27-2016 at 10:05 PM.

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    Ascendant Linolea's Avatar
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    I'll admit I buckled and just credit-bought the 6 essences in the store. My 15k remnants (or whatever they are called) were needed for the new synergy crystal.

    One thing that worries me is the requirement for T1 raiding. I have only run 4-5 experts so far (mostly DD of course) and never received an upgradeable epic gear item. Generally someone in the group has received one. If I need epic gear for T1, that might be a terrifically long haul. Guess I'll have to wait and see how that pans out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linolea View Post
    I'll admit I buckled and just credit-bought the 6 essences in the store.
    Hate to tell you but the green lessers are better than the upgraded store stuff if you get the right stats. The AH is slowly filling with them now as we run essence raids

    As for the purple gear, I've found it drops quite commonly. Not nearly as rare as I thought it would be. I've probably done 30 dungeons and got 5-6 epic pieces. Generally if one person in the group gets it, most of the others will, which sounds different from your experience.
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    Damn good post. Thank you for taking the time to put it togeather.

  8. #8
    Shield of Telara Necalli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linolea View Post
    I'll admit I buckled and just credit-bought the 6 essences in the store. My 15k remnants (or whatever they are called) were needed for the new synergy crystal.

    One thing that worries me is the requirement for T1 raiding. I have only run 4-5 experts so far (mostly DD of course) and never received an upgradeable epic gear item. Generally someone in the group has received one. If I need epic gear for T1, that might be a terrifically long haul. Guess I'll have to wait and see how that pans out.
    That's it though, that's exactly it. There's always that pressure from Trion to give money for small things like that it really does ruin the game. It's really nefarious too, a lot of "hey, you could grind for a couple of weeks or just toss $10 our way and you can bypass that grind as a whole."
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicstrand View Post
    Damn good post. Thank you for taking the time to put it togeather.
    Thank you, I still need to go back and do some editing but it's been hard to do with a toddler running around screaming.

    One other thing I forgot to mention is that the "buy now" and "gem" buttons are everywhere in the game. You can't log in without seeing 3 of them, you can't do anything without running into them. Whether it's buying new role slots, dungeon charges, bags, soul walks. It's just sad and almost seems as if the team doesn't respect their game or that they're desperate. Either way it's a bad taste in my mouth, so to speak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linolea View Post
    I'll admit I buckled and just credit-bought the 6 essences in the store.
    By doing so you have actively encouraged a game design that you seem to be opposed to.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander mingu's Avatar
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    I think it's fair to criticize when a game launch falls short. I think it's also important to recognize that game development is very high risk, and very hard work. Like software development in general, it's a tough balance to work on a set of ambitious features and also meet a coordinated date with the business and sales side of the company.

    An MMO is by far the riskiest type of game to develop, since it requires the creation of SO MUCH content, AND the highly complex systems that allow for so many players to login and fight monsters, quest, etc. in the same complex world.

    I think that Rift's challenge is the baggage it has built up with having to shift pay models at least twice now... Subscription -> FTP -> FTP/PTP-hybrid. It's a bit messy. And yes, it's pretty expensive for a new player to fully dive in.... tho the Essentials pack is a great step in the right direction.

    I've recently hit some of the awkward transitions in this baggage... overly expensive crafting recipes for previously top-end equipment... for example, the level 50 gear that has long since been eclipse with stats from vanilla level 51+ crafted gear. Would it be too much to ask to have those re-worked? The only value they have is a sometimes unique cosmetic unlock or a very short window of stat boost before it gets replaced with a level 51+ crafted or quest-granted item.

    But it's been quite the circus to see how you had a mix of people who initially praised the pay-for-content wall that SFP put up, and some who already saw the power-gap problem this would create between SFP activated people and largely FTP people. Maybe some people's views have shifted, maybe not. Maybe the missteps at launch have soured some people... but in the grand scheme of things, I've seen ALOT worse...

    I haven't gotten myself into the SFP content that I payed for yet, tho I hear the open world zones are really cool. And I'm cool with that. I'm still working my mains and alts through previous open-world content (not a big Dungeon runner or Raider)... getting close to the end of 50-60 content and gonna experience the water realm next...just taking my time and doing lots of crafting and artifact hunting along the way. It's a joy to just have the cap pushed out a bit further on my main's character progression potential.

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    I think its fair to say since its btp this time around...the game should have been done and someone brought up a few good points on things just missing in the new main city..I think that is a major moment. Seriously, sorry Trion I like you guys, but like I said in another thread, maybe just add things to the game instead of revamping the entire play style.

    For example half the gameplay is gone this time around..which should never be the case with a expansion we BUY. Perhaps treating this game as a free to play basis has really sunken into your heads..but the reality is you just changed your status.

    The thing I see is too much content that is overwritten, never ever fixed. I have warned about this before as I've seen many games drown in this very fault. I hope Trion has enough planarite to fix this, it seems a sloppy way to create an expansion and remember a lot of mmo's fell and collapsed this very way. I have faith to stay and continue on..I do think these dev's may have been pressured and the return is always nice for the holidays....but after that...time will tell.
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    Definitely floored that this expansion was released.

    1) Game balance was not even in the ballpark. (100% dps difference between best dps classes)
    2) there is not challenging group content. Where is the NMR type content? During NT, there were lots of NMR's going on in the first few months. The Open world Majors can be soloed in level 65 gear...
    3) The IA's are the most boring in years. I did them one night and wanted to pull my hair out.
    4) The fragments are tedious.
    5) We said 2 dungeons was not enough, I already hear people complaining about the super easy and boring dungeons.

    This should have been delayed at a minimum. We were still having fun with raid stuff. Now there is nothing to do as a group.
    Last edited by Rhumble; 11-28-2016 at 04:36 PM.

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara Necalli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mingu View Post
    But it's been quite the circus to see how you had a mix of people who initially praised the pay-for-content wall that SFP put up, and some who already saw the power-gap problem this would create between SFP activated people and largely FTP people. Maybe some people's views have shifted, maybe not. Maybe the missteps at launch have soured some people... but in the grand scheme of things, I've seen ALOT worse...
    Isn't that the norm though? Anytime there is a new expansion the gear in that expansion is always more powerful, I can't think of an MMO expansion where the gear wasn't an improvement in the new expansion. Have you had different experiences?
    Quote Originally Posted by MissGreen View Post
    For example half the gameplay is gone this time around..which should never be the case with a expansion we BUY. Perhaps treating this game as a free to play basis has really sunken into your heads..but the reality is you just changed your status.
    Out of curiosity, when you saying gameplay is missing, what exactly are you talking about?

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    Champion MissGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necalli View Post
    Isn't that the norm though? Anytime there is a new expansion the gear in that expansion is always more powerful, I can't think of an MMO expansion where the gear wasn't an improvement in the new expansion. Have you had different experiences?

    Out of curiosity, when you saying gameplay is missing, what exactly are you talking about?
    I mean one dungeon that is halfway sustainable, no raids, the pvp wf's have been cut down...shall I continue?
    "I've had so many names, old names that only the wind and trees can pronounce" - Pan's Labyrinth

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    Ascendant Linolea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archyface View Post
    Hate to tell you but the green lessers are better than the upgraded store stuff if you get the right stats. The AH is slowly filling with them now as we run essence raids
    Yeah that is happening quicker than expected. I see there are competitive greens up on Laethys for 200-400pp each. Should have checked I guess.

    This is similar to the crafting experience. To date there has been very little worth getting through crafting (runes, orbs and pots will be the main exceptions, I guess). The 250 hit gear is so easy to get in the world, daily portal instances, and IAs. Gear crafting is currently a waste of time and plat. I have everything maxed except WS and AS. Those two I will level through daily crafting quests as there absolutely no recipes of interest to me. The only reason I craft quest is for tokens to buy the aforementioned orb, rune and apoth recipes (assuming they fix the stats on the latter).
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