Planar Fragments: Unanswered Questions

[Boxsmith]

If you'd like to see more feedback on grinding for RNG based pieces, I'd encourage you to regularly read the PVP Forums. If there's not a thread active today complaining about the pvp gear system, there's at least one that was posted within the last 48 hours or one that will be posted within the next 48 hours.

I think you're trying to compare apples to oranges. The introduction of rng to pvp gearing was just objectively worse. It wasn't a tradeoff, it was just making things suckier for pvpers to double / triple play times without actually adding content.

These fragment things seem like a tradeoff. As I've said, we won't have to shell out crazy amounts of plat anymore for runes or orbs, or keep track of specific gear sets. Personally, I'm a big fan of the idea of everything you do going towards a certain goal, which in this case is rng fragments. Think of it like PA XP, but with goodie bags.

Also, I'm assuming it won't be terribly difficult to upgrade to / buy / find at least blue rarity fragments, which will probably suffice for raiding. Look at it this way: who actually minmaxes their essences? Who actually has a bunch of 259 essences from dreamweaver? Pretty much nobody, and people aren't wiping in raids because of that.

If Trion is smart, they won't make content demand you to have more than a few good fragments, which really just goes back to the relaxed normal mode dps requirements for raiding I've been talking about in literally every other thread the last few weeks. The one tricky part is gonna be the CP cap, but there are a number of ways to combat that as well. like making sp/ap and crit scale better for more specs so CP isn't the go-to option anymore.

[Myred]

I think you're trying to compare apples to oranges. The introduction of rng to pvp gearing was just objectively worse. It wasn't a tradeoff, it was just making things suckier for pvpers to double / triple play times without actually adding content.

These fragment things seem like a tradeoff. As I've said, we won't have to shell out crazy amounts of plat anymore for runes or orbs, or keep track of specific gear sets. Personally, I'm a big fan of the idea of everything you do going towards a certain goal, which in this case is rng fragments. Think of it like PA XP, but with goodie bags.

Look, I am all for unifying the grind--I am a proponent of gear unification; I like the idea behind planar fragments; I think this is going to make running raid tank/heal/dps much easier on me and others. But, at the same time, it's difficult to feel good about upgrading a piece of gear with the possibility that the time/resources I put into it is going to be unrewarded.

[Boxsmith]

Look, I am all for unifying the grind--I am a proponent of gear unification; I like the idea behind planar fragments; I think this is going to make running raid tank/heal/dps much easier on me and others. But, at the same time, it's difficult to feel good about upgrading a piece of gear with the possibility that the time/resources I put into it is going to be unrewarded.

From what I understand, gear will just be objectively better in mainstat as you go up in tiers, and all of the secondary stats (crit chance, crit power, power) will be from fragments and most likely essences. Assuming gear still has armor values and endurance, you'll still go up in survivability as well. I suppose that without orb scaling and gear having secondary stats, raid drops won't be as impactful, but I'm sure they'll incorporate either high level fragments or materials to create high level fragments in raids as well.

If I'm wildly wrong about any of this, my mistake. I've been mostly away from the game lately to focus on other things, but i've been trying to stay in-the-know for the expac.

[FluffyBunny_002]

I've looked at the livestream now and to be honest I have more questions than answers. It seemed pretty contradictory to me.

With runes, I pays my plats I get a known upgrade. This is 'good' - we can quibble the cost but the certainty of your upgrade is a good thing.

With orbs, I pays my plats and I get one of a series of known upgrades. This is 'ok' - no one likes RNG but you just keep pouring in plats till you get a know BIS combo.

Hard to say what Planar Fragments are going to do - I'm confused at least. But it looks like you start out w/ a fragment, add some rng to it and maybe get what you want, then add the next level of rng to it and maybe improve it again, etc. It was unclear, however, they implied you can do this 4(?) times. Based on the livestream it seems that each upgrade gives you some of (AP/CP/PC/END/Guard/Block/Dodge) which means it is more like (1/7)^4= 3 in a 1000 chance of getting what you want. And something about 'criting' (not sure what that means except for moving some bar) but that seemed to mean you had to do this even more times making you even more subject to RNG.

Seems like your chance of getting a 'perfect' planar fragment is less than the chance of getting useful drop from the Rift lotto boxes.

I can just imagine the butthurt on these forums when someone upgrades a +225 int/+225 SP/+225 Wis and gets +10 dodge as the blue level.

[Vladd]

Lemme see if I can clear up some of the confusion on this topic...

1) Fragments are not associated with your gear at all. They just slot into spots that "relate" to your gear slots. We felt this tied them more into the world instead of them just being a different tab with slots 1 through N with no correlation to your character.

2) You will get fragments that have undesirable combinations... and promptly recycle them since you'll need the materials gained from doing so for infusion levels. You'll get fragments that are really awesome too and you'll be glad you have all those recycled materials to infuse it to higher levels.

3) Fragments cannot be unsocketed for now and we aren't selling unsocketers to start with. So, once they are put into a planar fragment set, that's where it will stay. The only way to change that slot is to overwrite it. This might not survive contact with the public so we'll keep an eye on this.

4) Fragments will pretty much be obtainable from all sorts of resource streams. You'll need to figure out which ones give you the best planar affinity to primary attribute gains. Again, we are counting on you to break them down so you can use the materials in infusing them to higher levels so the faucet has to be open on them.

5) Fragments don't steal from the item budget of your gear in terms of stats. Again, they aren't associated with the items overall aside from the loose association stated in #1. Gear will be at 100% budget and fragments are additional on top of that.

[hell0w33n]

3) Fragments cannot be unsocketed for now and we aren't selling unsocketers to start with. So, once they are put into a planar fragment set, that's where it will stay. The only way to change that slot is to overwrite it. This might not survive contact with the public so we'll keep an eye on this.

Vladd, you're killing me D:
Just make it removable ...
Make it something fun, it's gonna be a grindy grind anyway, make it a fun grind
If something like that's even possible.

[July13th]

Will Runes and Orbs still be on gear or will they work similar to Planar Fragment system?

[KiwiRage]

Lemme see if I can clear up some of the confusion on this topic...

1) Fragments are not associated with your gear at all. They just slot into spots that "relate" to your gear slots. We felt this tied them more into the world instead of them just being a different tab with slots 1 through N with no correlation to your character.

2) You will get fragments that have undesirable combinations... and promptly recycle them since you'll need the materials gained from doing so for infusion levels. You'll get fragments that are really awesome too and you'll be glad you have all those recycled materials to infuse it to higher levels.

3) Fragments cannot be unsocketed for now and we aren't selling unsocketers to start with. So, once they are put into a planar fragment set, that's where it will stay. The only way to change that slot is to overwrite it. This might not survive contact with the public so we'll keep an eye on this.

4) Fragments will pretty much be obtainable from all sorts of resource streams. You'll need to figure out which ones give you the best planar affinity to primary attribute gains. Again, we are counting on you to break them down so you can use the materials in infusing them to higher levels so the faucet has to be open on them.

5) Fragments don't steal from the item budget of your gear in terms of stats. Again, they aren't associated with the items overall aside from the loose association stated in #1. Gear will be at 100% budget and fragments are additional on top of that.

Given the fact almost all of page 4 and the start of page 5 has been about the RNG portion of this addition to gearing... id say you haven't cleared much up at all.

It sounds FAR too similar to the trove gem system and look how well that crap was taken by the community over there... and that's coming from a community all too used to seeing gearing RNG even before that. This kind of RNG(for gearing/stats) DOES NOT belong in rift. If it is anywhere near as severe as the RNG/grind is in trove, this will get shot down faster than aussies chances of winning the Bledisloe Cup.

(im gonna regret that one come Thursdays raid night...)

[hell0w33n]

stuff

Ya, I think they could make it rng-ish, but like leave defensive stats with other defensive stats and offensive stats with other offensive stats (phys and non-phys separated ofc).

Like, avoiding AP + Guard or Phys Crit + SP. If the rng is between Guard, End, Block and Dodge - I think it's acceptable. If the rng is between all stats, that is insanity.

[KiwiRage]

Ya, I think they could make it rng-ish, but like leave defensive stats with other defensive stats and offensive stats with other offensive stats (phys and non-phys separated ofc).

Like, avoiding AP + Guard or Phys Crit + SP. If the rng is between Guard, End, Block and Dodge - I think it's acceptable. If the rng is between all stats, that is insanity.

Theoretically they could wipe 99% of the RNG of these fragments, but in reality there has to be some, or the people who simply devote more time to the game, or raid higher tier stuff will be finished with them fairly quickly.

I would "tolerate" this middle ground.

[hell0w33n]

Theoretically they could wipe 99% of the RNG of these fragments, but in reality there has to be some, or the people who simply devote more time to the game, or raid higher tier stuff will be finished with them fairly quickly.

I would settle for this middle ground.

Aye.
We on the same page.

[Ripperino]

Like someone said above in this thread this reeks of the gem system of Trove. If you haven't played Trove since Mantle of Power was released, I suggest you take a look how it works. I can foresee there being items to increase a chance of success when upgrading these, if rngeesus smiles on you in the first place granting a fragment with your desired stats. I'd rather have runes and dream orbs than this system. While it makes it easier for playing multiple roles it is one big grind.

[KiwiRage]

Like someone said above in this thread this reeks of the gem system of Trove. If you haven't played Trove since Mantle of Power was released, I suggest you take a look how it works. I can foresee there being items to increase a chance of success when upgrading these, if rngeesus smiles on you in the first place granting a fragment with your desired stats. I'd rather have runes and dream orbs than this system. While it makes it easier for playing multiple roles it is one big grind.

Exactly this ^

Which brings me back to the point of... if a community such a troves took so badly to the gem update initially(when they are ALREADY accustomed to stat RNG grinds in general), how the hell can you think that amount of RNG is going to be accepted in rift!!?? It baffles me...

The amount of RNG in question (once again) DOES NOT belong in rift. Especially when it concerns stats.

The suggestion a few posts back up is about the limit of what will be "tolerated"(not gonna say "accepted" cause that would be a blatant lie...)
suggestion being, keep tank and dps/heal stats separate.

[Meteorblade]

3) Fragments cannot be unsocketed for now and we aren't selling unsocketers to start with. So, once they are put into a planar fragment set, that's where it will stay. The only way to change that slot is to overwrite it. This might not survive contact with the public so we'll keep an eye on this.

This confirms my fears expressed in an earlier post. Currently I can use one piece of armour in multiple sets but in SFP I'd need the base armour and multiple fragments, which can't even be moved from one fragment set to another, i.e. I'd need three items compared to one.

There's also RNG to get them, then can't move them around, RNG to upgrade them, possibly into undesirable stats, so that really cool fragment you had just became worthless, and so on.

Can you tell us which of your players you consulted that said they wanted more RNG rather than less so I can go strangle them?

[Zojah]

Surprised no one has asked this yet:

There were a few slots locked on the live stream.

Should I be getting my wallet out?