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Thread: B2P and F2P: Both Sides

  1. #1
    Ascendant Rgizil's Avatar
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    Default B2P and F2P: Both Sides

    Notice: This is not to start a flame war, This is simply to point out the valid arguments both sides have in the B2P (Buy to Play) and F2P (Free to Play) arguments.


    Explanation: What is Happening? Rift's new expansion is going Buy to Play. You can still level up to 65 but then you need to buy the expansion to go to 70.

    "Access to Starfall Prophecy content across all characters on your account. Reach level 70, unlock legendary abilities, explore 5 massive new zones, defeat 2 deadly dungeons, and more!"


    Why People Are Defending B2P

    1. Obviously Trion made some sort of calculated decision and decided that B2P would be better. Keep in mind that they need to make money.

    2. People are just doom and glooming it without actually seeing what happens when it launches. A Valid argument. You can argue theoretical points but actually testing it is the best way to see if it works.

    3. It will be better for the game. The game will get more money allowing them to make better content.


    F2P

    1. Trion is breaking one of their biggest promises:
    http://www.trionworlds.com/en/news/2...-free-to-play/

    RIFT®, the award-winning online game from Trion Worlds, will adopt a free-to-play business model starting June 12, 2013. Players will be able to experience the entire game world; every dungeon, every zone, and every level and get full access to all current and future game updates.

    It's a major slap in the face for every F2P player who expected them to stick by their word and keep all current and future game updates free.


    2. Kills the playerbase. The F2P players quit as they can no longer access the entire game and the population drops significantly.


    3. It means paying.
    Yes, not everyone wants to/can pay for the game.





    I think both sides have some valid points. I tend to think the F2Pers have more valid arguments, they have been effectively lied to. At the same time if they weren't making money its understandable that it needed to be changed.

    And with all these statistics flying around I think it would be great for the community to actually see the numbers instead of people trying to calculate it themselves using things such as the 5th anniversary leaderboards or MMO lvl 40 giveaways.

    I think it would really help if the community could actually see the statistics of how many active accounts there are and how many people play every month etc.
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  2. #2
    Ascendant Slipmat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rgizil View Post
    It's a major slap in the face for every F2P player who expected them to stick by their word and keep all current and future game updates free
    I'm just going to be totally blunt here and don't care who i "upset".

    If somebody has the intent of just playing the game for free with what they have free then fine, but if they also cry about been denied anything they have to pay for and have no intention of ever supporting the game and have no intention of ever giving Trion a single penny then good riddance.

  3. #3
    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    Pro for B2P.

    We won't get that PW:W/Earrings drama again under that system.
    Everything after Storm Legion was a mistake. (™)

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    Telaran
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    18. Changes to Terms of Use, a Game or the Service

    Trion reserves the right, at its sole and absolute discretion, to change, modify, add to, disable, supplement, suspend, remove or delete, at any time, any of the terms and conditions of this Agreement, any feature of the Site, Game(s) (including Game-related Virtual Items, if any), Game Client(s) and/or Service, hours of availability, content, data, feature, gameplay, item (including in a manner which makes virtual goods substantially more, or less, valuable, effective, functional, common or available), service, server software or equipment needed to access the Site, Game(s) (including Game-related Virtual Items, if any), Game Client(s) and/or the Service, effective with or without prior notice; provided, however, that material changes to this Terms of Use Agreement will not be applied retroactively. If any future changes to this Agreement are unacceptable to you or cause you to no longer be in compliance with this Agreement, you must terminate, and immediately stop using, the Site, Game(s)(including Game-related Virtual Items, if any), Game Client(s) and/or the Service. Your continued use of the Site, Game(s) (including Game-related Virtual Items, if any, Game Client(s) and/or the Service following any revision to this Agreement constitutes your complete and irrevocable acceptance of any and all such changes. Trion may also impose limits on certain features or restrict your access to parts or all of the Game without notice or liability.


    Well, everyone clicked on the "I Accept" function to the Terms of Use. It doesn't matter. It simply does not matter. If F2P want access to the content, they have to buy it with real money or platinum from a seller. Arguments don't matter because apparently Trion is making the money it needs to give us expansions from those who actually do support the game.
    Last edited by rhaegys; 08-06-2016 at 10:29 AM.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    ^ That and like RGI said. Lets wait and see what actually happens at launch as well as the other huge list of announcements they have yet to release. It's only been a few days.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched Mazoga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slipmat View Post
    if they also cry about been denied anything they have to pay for and have no intention of ever supporting the game and have no intention of ever giving Trion a single penny then good riddance.
    You do realize that not all the complaints are coming from people who never spend? I, for one, went into Rift when it was f2p, and once I understood how well I liked the game and the magnitude of content it offered, was more than happy to contribute and spend (when I could). And I have. Stints of patron, all souls, primalist, some NT pack, a lot of other things. In total I would've bought the game a couple times over by now if it were a standard b2p. Double that for my partner's account. But you know, I spent my money assuming that the promised plan would continue. I'd expected to be in on the next expansion, and planned to spend money in it when I was able to. Had I known the expansion would instead be b2p I would've severely limited my expenses over time, but with Trion's attitude of giving access to everything for free and no word on that changing, I felt it only right to support them in keeping that up because I love that model.

    I suspect there are many others who have complaints or aren't all to happy about how this went down, who have spent quite a bit on Rift. Yet they're immediately painted as no-life freeloaders because everyone just loves putting everyone in two camps for some reason and then throwing **** at each other. Those people might even buy the expansion, but just have a more criticial view of Trion's actions. They'll get flamed all the same, and yeah I guess this really annoys me.

    I'll be in the expansion and looking forward to it, but please people be a bit more open-minded about other people's situations.

    It's like the whole patron debacle all over again, where things were taken away from non-patron people and everyone who complained was labeled a freeloading lowlife. Take two second to think and realize that not having patron doesn't mean never supporting the game in *many* other available ways. Hell I bet there are non-patrons who've spent more money on Rift than people who have patron running all the time.

    Cut each other some slack you don't know everyone's situation there is no need for them, or you, to dismiss each other with unfounded stuff like this.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazoga View Post
    But you know, I spent my money assuming that the promised plan would continue. I'd expected to be in on the next expansion, and planned to spend money in it when I was able to. Had I known the expansion would instead be b2p I would've severely limited my expenses over time, but with Trion's attitude of giving access to everything for free and no word on that changing, I felt it only right to support them in keeping that up because I love that model.

    Cut each other some slack you don't know everyone's situation there is no need for them, or you, to dismiss each other with unfounded stuff like this.

    Refer to my reply regarding Trion's Terms of Use--which you agreed to. Also, when is the last time you went to work and have the employer say "By the way, you're working for free today"?

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Oldar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slipmat View Post
    I'm just going to be totally blunt here and don't care who i "upset".

    If somebody has the intent of just playing the game for free with what they have free then fine, but if they also cry about been denied anything they have to pay for and have no intention of ever supporting the game and have no intention of ever giving Trion a single penny then good riddance.
    I fail to understand how a F2P gamer is a "burden" in Rift... I really do.

    Don't they fill up the population?
    Don't they lowering queue times (especially when they had more charges)?
    Don't they farm all the platinum a REX seller asks for?
    Don't they help with the economy of the game overall (crafting, artifacts, etc)?

    You are blind if you support those sayings. They do offer into this game with their way.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaegys View Post
    18. Changes to Terms of Use, a Game or the Service

    Well, everyone clicked on the "I Accept" function to the Terms of Use. It doesn't matter. It simply does not matter. If F2P want access to the content, they have to buy it with real money or platinum from a seller. Arguments don't matter because apparently Trion is making the money it needs to give us expansions from those who actually do support the game.
    Written or not in those terms it is still immoral... They only lose respect and prestige. You like to support a company who treats you like that? Go ahead do it. It is your choice. A choice that Trion does not give to the F2P community they created.

    If Trion did not want them why they used them??? Because with this turn of events, their move is totally a coldblooded exploitation of the F2P gamers.

    As for the "they need to make money to live on" nobody wants them to work for free. You want more money? THEN STOP MAKING PEOPLE LEAVE AND START MAKING PEOPLE COME BACK!!! Read these damn forums and see what players like, dislike, want, ask... balance those opinions and there you are...
    Last edited by Oldar; 08-06-2016 at 01:42 PM.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched Mazoga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhaegys View Post
    Refer to my reply regarding Trion's Terms of Use--which you agreed to. Also, when is the last time you went to work and have the employer say "By the way, you're working for free today"?
    And when did I say I didn't agree that things can change? Of course they can, and have. I said that because of Trion's own wording I didn't *expect* them to. And they did, which you know, people can have opinions on. Mine happens to be 'Ok, this is how it's gonna be. I'll get the xpac because I want in. Though I think that's unexpected and not what I hoped for.'

    I'm very understanding of the need for a business to have a workable plan to manage their expenses. A bit more communication would've been nice. People who complain have a point, is all I'm saying. I'm not here demanding change, just stating that there's more sides to this and that everyone's situation is not the same.

    Your copy-paste of the terms of agreement is useless in this thread. Everyone knows Trion can do that, everyone is aware of where things are at for this expansion.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple
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    But RIFT is not a B2P game and never will be. So what is the purpose of this post?

  11. #11
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhaegys View Post
    Also, when is the last time you went to work and have the employer say "By the way, you're working for free today"?
    you might be surprised at just how common things along these lines are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser Letobrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightLight View Post
    But RIFT is not a B2P game and never will be. So what is the purpose of this post?
    To clarify Rift is currently not B2P, but the new and upcoming expansion, Starfall Prophecy, will need to be purchased to access levelling and content from 65 to 70. This was stated in their last livestream and confirmed by Ocho earlier.

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser Letobrick's Avatar
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    As I've stated in another thread, Rift basically made a number of "promises" they could not keep and understandably so. For example, they had also stated Rift would not be "Pay to Win" and no features would be lost for Veteran players. I believe Rift was Trion's first major release into the MMO genre and even they would not have had a crystal ball to predict how things would go financially by switching to the F2P model.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    The only thing I don't understand from this is not making the base expansion purchasable for credits. As far as I'm aware, most F2P credits come from REX, which is bought for real money (at a slight premium too) somewhere along the line. Having it available for credits just makes sense to me because those credits are being paid for with real money somewhere down the line.

    Or am I just missing some magical method of procuring piles of credits without buying REX or paying real cash?

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vylix View Post
    The only thing I don't understand from this is not making the base expansion purchasable for credits. As far as I'm aware, most F2P credits come from REX, which is bought for real money (at a slight premium too) somewhere along the line. Having it available for credits just makes sense to me because those credits are being paid for with real money somewhere down the line.

    Or am I just missing some magical method of procuring piles of credits without buying REX or paying real cash?
    There two types of money: money from the past aka credits and money from the present.
    So if you know a lot of people have credits and you want to make income you offer it for no credits. For the customer both types of money have the same value ofc but Trion needs your money NOW(most of times).

    You could now ask why the ingame shop has credits as the main currency but then we get into the area how you make customers spent more money with simple tricks like in every other business in the world.
    Last edited by Night Dream; 08-06-2016 at 03:30 PM.

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