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  1. #166
    Plane Touched Doveblack's Avatar
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    I dont think it would be terribly wise for them to completely reveal all of the "secret sauce" to people who are likely to try and get around whatever system exists for the people who make the game to make a living.

    That being said, if you want to know WHY they did it, you need only look at what going from free to play to a paid expansion would be CAUSED by.

    It is obviously not some guy flipping a coin to determine if the expansion will cost money or not. It obviously wasn't done just to make people who like to complain on the forum come and complain either.

    It was probably the result of them analyzing the finanacial data from their previous expansions and the spending habits of their customers, and then determining that this would be their best option.
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  2. #167
    Shield of Telara Necalli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slipmat View Post
    Excuse me, i'm not one of the crybabies on here who throw themselves on the floor wailing and balling their eyes out, also i don't just "blindly accept" what Trion says, i said plenty of times i didn't agree with cutting specific warfronts/dungeons from F2P players, i said many times their F2P plan was a bit too generous and that i felt they were giving too much of the game away for free.

    As the saying goes, for some players "give them an inch, they'll demand a mile"

    It has been already explained by Trion why they're now adapting the shift to paid Expansions, they gave the current one away for nothing yet the self entitled still cried, now they're charging for the new Expansion and guess what? the same self entitled are still crying rivers.
    So... that's your response? Everyone else is a crybaby and I'm right? That seems realistic and not like a crybaby at all

    That's the only problem you've taken up with the choices over the years, or even this most recent expansion? They're too generous? Nothing about half finished raids, terrible class balance, the vast ocean of PvP problems, items being character specific so they can milk more money out of the players, rushed content, continual addition of pain points if you don't have patron, nerfs to other souls/class when a new set is pushed to live? That's all you can think of, really?

  3. #168
    Ascendant Slipmat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necalli View Post
    waffle waffle
    Yes that's my response, if i didn't like playing Rift i wouldn't be here, end of story. As for "milking" the player, see every single MMO out there

  4. #169
    Rift Disciple Oldar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slipmat View Post
    [...] i said plenty of times i didn't agree with cutting specific warfronts/dungeons from F2P players, i said many times their F2P plan was a bit too generous and that i felt they were giving too much of the game away for free.
    I was going to point out your exact same phrases I answer you in my post but after this post of yours, I am not wasting my time anymore.

    You really confuse things for good. In your own post:
    You do not agree with all the "cuttings" to the F2P community they did BUT you do agree that something must had been cut?

    So, before the "cuttings" take place: You have a very generous model cut it down.
    After the "cuttings" taking place: You shouldn't cut them down. Why you did that?

  5. #170
    Rift Disciple Oldar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doveblack View Post
    It was probably the result of them analyzing the finanacial data from their previous expansions and the spending habits of their customers, and then determining that this would be their best option.
    That is why we discuss this matter in these forums!

    It was a matter of statistics and analyzing the data.
    How many times decisions have been made according to this "data"?
    How many efforts have fallen apart because they were following the wrong data?
    How many gallops have been made and they are all wrong?
    How many exit poles shown that the A political group is going to win this years elections and the next day we all see as the winner the group B?

    I have made many micro-transactions and I am playing the game. According to their data I am a possible buyer for their xpac right?

    Well, I am here and I am saying: count me out! I do that in order to help them come closer to the real data and not just some fancy numbers that maybe or maybe not come true.
    Last edited by Oldar; 08-07-2016 at 11:48 AM.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slipmat View Post
    2: Do you need money?
    Everyone needs money, yes. But you're missing the point, they received money in advance then they don't want to accept the money's credit for their stuff.

    Let's say I fix computers for a living.
    You're terrible with computers so you constantly **** up all your computers at your job.
    So your boss calls me every week and I fix it, for $100 to $300, depends on the problem.

    Instead of paying me each time, he gives me $1000 in advance to use for the next few times. Just to make it simple.

    Then someday your computer has a problem, and I tell your boss well I can fix it, but you'll have to pay me. I can't use the $1000 you paid me in advance for that. Give me another $250 for the fixing. And as for the $1000 credit, I don't know, I'll give Slipmat the pick on computer parts worth up to $1000. Sounds fair?

    Of course it doesn't sound fair. Your boss paid $1000 to me in advance, you should be able to use these $1000 to buy $1000 worth of WHATEVER I'm selling (up to the $1000). Computer parts, or services, anything I offer. I mean he paid me already. If he didn't pay me, he would have $1000 in his pocket that he could give me NOW to buy the service I refuse to give for the $1000 credits you have on me... So it'd be nonsense for me to withhold these services, saying that your prepaid money isn't good for that and you need some other money NOW and that the $1000 prepaid will only be used for other stuff.

    This is what Trion is doing by not allowing this to be bought with credits.
    They got alot of money by selling REX, but they won't allow people to use their products in exchange of the money that's ALREADY IN THEIR BANK ACCOUNT.

    I can't understand how you can't see what's wrong with that.
    Last edited by somerandomnamee; 08-07-2016 at 10:57 AM.

  7. #172
    Shield of Telara Necalli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slipmat View Post
    Yes that's my response, if i didn't like playing Rift i wouldn't be here, end of story. As for "milking" the player, see every single MMO out there
    Lol, okay will do. We'll check it out from a new player perspective wanting to unlock all playable content and classes.
    Rift:
    Essentials Edition - $50
    Ascended Souls - $40
    STP Standard-$40
    Total - $130

    WoW:
    Base Game (includes vanilla and five expansions) - $20
    Legion Standard-$50
    Total - $70

    GW2:
    Base Game - Free
    Heart of Thorns - $50
    Total - $50

    ESO:
    Base Game - $20
    5 DLC packs - $48
    Total - $68


    So Rift is $60 more expensive than the next most expensive game. You can literally pay for an entire other game and most if not all of it's DLC. We're not even talking about things like wardrobe slot unlocks, bag slots, character slots, armor slots, bank slots, role slots, mounts, pets, and anything that can have a price tag.

    The rest of the games you make a one time purchase and it's unlocked on all of your characters account wide. Rift on the other hand you are charged over and over again for the same unlocks if it's a different character. The exception being dyes.

    I also noticed you didn't respond to any of the other problems I raised in my previous post. So are they not a concern?

    If I didn't like Rift I wouldn't be here, I have far better things I could be doing with my time. I would like to assume that's true of most people on the forums and doesn't need to be stated. Here's the problem with what you're doing, right now Trion needs a firm response from the community on their new model.

    If we just smile and say "it's fine" it does far more substantial damage to the game we all love because Trion will continue to implement poor monetization practices will continue to steer players away from their game. This is the same game that is $60 more expensive than the next most expensive game, WoW, which has a massive player base and an incredibly large list of great features.

    I don't think you're an idiot or lack the mental capacity to understand what's going on, but you have to get over the fact that Rift isn't perfect and there has been a lot of bad calls made recently. If you can't then you are part of the problem, just like the crybabies you continue to mention in your posts.
    Last edited by Necalli; 08-07-2016 at 11:21 AM.

  8. #173
    Rift Disciple Oldar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    No offense, but:
    No offense taken, shoot away:
    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    - If you're working and have trouble spending 20$ on the expansion, then maybe you shouldn't play Rift. Playing Rift is a hobby like any other hobby out there. If your hobby would be to pimp up your car, you wouldn't mind spending 1000$ on some subwoofer or lighting stuff, why are you so concerned about spending 20$ for an expansion then?
    First of all, how it comes to 20$? Last time I checked it was 40$. And my problem is not spending money for the game I play. The problem comes when the company I want to trust and I fully support, is changing the rules from the cooperation we had until now! According to their needs, they throw away my needs. Yeah Trion's employers have needs. Does this mean I have no right to play according to what they offer me up until now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    - Trion is trying out a new business model, yes I understand that it will impact f2p players, but imo spending 20$ is not that much of a problem
    Did you read discussions for this new model in the forums?Shouldn't they do that with their community? Did they say that they are going B2P now WHICH means that all the other micro-transactions are going away and only the cosmetic staff are here to stay?Guess what? No, they are not going B2P and not they are not going to stay F2P either. You feel comfortable to trust a company that not even they do not know what financial model they want to follow?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    - You can grind around 400platinum/h + 400plat/week (or more if you have several characters), if you really are too greedy to spend 20$, then by all means, go grind, no one is stopping you. Expansions sell for around 16-20k, shouldn't be that hard to grind up, even if you only grind 1h per day, you'll have the platinum in a month.
    Maybe in the NA shards the xpac can be bought for that ammount. In the EU I play count at least double as much and only if you are lucky to find someone of course. So, the only thing I want is to bleed my fingers out to farm about 40-50k plat and then I must find someone who sells it right? If there is none to buy from then what?
    Another thing is: If I have the credits for the xpac I still cannot buy it. So, I already have farmed my @ss off in order to buy credits (4500p each) and now I need to farm again in order to buy something that I have the currency to do it from the first place? Does this look fair?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    - What do you mean "all of a sudden?" The expansion is probably like 3 months away, The announcement was made soon enough, imo at least.
    I lost you here. Where did I write all of the sudden?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    - If all your argument comes down to is: "I'm a f2p-player, Trion promised xyz a year ago and now, 3 months before the expansion hits, they "suddenly" change their business model, you're all like: "I don't like it, cuz I feel entitled to have muh freebies" ... well sry, that's not much of an argument, at least not in my eyes
    As I said, they show me that they not know what model they are going to follow, how can I trust them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    While I realize Trion's decision making is not what you would call forthcoming (at least it hasn't been in this expansion), I also can't understand f2p-players demanding things even though you don't spend a penny on the game. Seems kinda rude ... V:
    PJSalt
    F2P gamers in Rift does not mean they do not invest money and time into it. They may have buy items that cost more than a Patron status for 2 years. It does not mean they do not offer to the game with their way. At is is right now it seems: "let's use them the way we like, and when we finish with them , we can throw them away". Either you are Patron or not, F2P or anything you like, you are above all a human being! And as a human being you can understand why is morally wrong those types of practices.
    Last edited by Oldar; 08-07-2016 at 11:50 AM.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necalli View Post
    Lol, okay will do. We'll check it out from a new player perspective wanting to unlock all playable content and classes.
    Rift:
    Essentials Edition - $50
    Ascended Souls - $40
    STP Standard-$40
    Total - $130

    WoW:
    Base Game (includes vanilla and five expansions) - $20
    Legion Standard-$50
    Total - $70

    GW2:
    Base Game - Free
    Heart of Thorns - $50
    Total - $50

    ESO:
    Base Game - $20
    5 DLC packs - $48
    Total - $68


    So Rift is $60 more expensive than the next most expensive game. You can literally pay for an entire other game and most if not all of it's DLC. We're not even talking about things like wardrobe slot unlocks, bag slots, character slots, armor slots, bank slots, role slots, mounts, pets, and anything that can have a price tag.

    The rest of the games you make a one time purchase and it's unlocked on all of your characters account wide. Rift on the other hand you are charged over and over again for the same unlocks if it's a different character. The exception being dyes.

    I also noticed you didn't respond to any of the other problems I raised in my previous post. So are they not a concern?

    If I didn't like Rift I wouldn't be here, I have far better things I could be doing with my time. I would like to assume that's true of most people on the forums and doesn't need to be stated. Here's the problem with what you're doing, right now Trion needs a firm response from the community on their new model.

    If we just smile and say "it's fine" it does far more substantial damage to the game we all love because Trion will continue to implement poor monetization practices will continue to steer players away from their game. This is the same game that is $60 more expensive than the next most expensive game, WoW, which has a massive player base and an incredibly large list of great features.

    I don't think you're an idiot or lack the mental capacity to understand what's going on, but you have to get over the fact that Rift isn't perfect and there has been a lot of bad calls made recently. If you can't then you are part of the problem, just like the crybabies you continue to mention in your posts.
    + $15 a month for patron. Rift is really expensive compared to other games.

    I think wow gives you all the previous expansions when legion is released, but also pay $15, but no cash shop
    Last edited by Chadwix; 08-07-2016 at 12:07 PM.

  10. #175
    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doveblack View Post
    I dont think it would be terribly wise for them to completely reveal all of the "secret sauce" to people who are likely to try and get around whatever system exists for the people who make the game to make a living.

    That being said, if you want to know WHY they did it, you need only look at what going from free to play to a paid expansion would be CAUSED by.

    It is obviously not some guy flipping a coin to determine if the expansion will cost money or not. It obviously wasn't done just to make people who like to complain on the forum come and complain either.

    It was probably the result of them analyzing the finanacial data from their previous expansions and the spending habits of their customers, and then determining that this would be their best option.
    "Based heavily on your feedback from our most recent expansion releases, we’ll sell Starfall Prophecy as a simple premium expansion purchase"

    According to Archonix, you're overthinking it. Apparently we asked for this.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse
    We are absolutely a service industry and you're only as good as your last contact with the customer.

  11. #176
    Plane Touched Doveblack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artewig View Post
    "Based heavily on your feedback from our most recent expansion releases, we’ll sell Starfall Prophecy as a simple premium expansion purchase"

    According to Archonix, you're overthinking it. Apparently we asked for this.
    I thought you implied that my problem wasn't thinking enough about the motivations of those who are bringing up irrelevant numbers and claiming that the decision to make it a paid expansion will destroy Rift? Now I'm overthinking things huh? Interesting.

    Can you link to the conversation where that was stated? I'd like to get the full context of that statement.

    Anyway, "based heavily on your feedback" is probably NOT referring to people complaining on the forums. Feedback for decision making like this SHOULD be based upon objective analysis. Since the data is readily available, it should involve some analytics(assuming they have some graph analytics software and hardware capabilities, or even humans to look at the server logs and financials and make an analysis).

    Also, part of public relations is making generic statements like that. "Heavily" is not "exclusively". If twenty different variables are involved in the decision, and forum feedback is 10% of the reason, it is heavily weighted compared to another deciding factor, which would necessarily count less.

    You think that someone in a leadership position would say anything other than that? That would be really poor public relations and business sense if they didn't say that, regardless of how many factors were involved.
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  12. #177
    Ascendant Meteorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artewig View Post
    "Based heavily on your feedback from our most recent expansion releases, we’ll sell Starfall Prophecy as a simple premium expansion purchase"

    According to Archonix, you're overthinking it. Apparently we asked for this.
    Based heavily on the feedback we gave telling them we're sick of being nickel and dimed, they are now going to mug people up front.

    Of course, a lot of us bought Storm Legion as a simple, premium expansion purchase... and then they changed from subs to F2P. How can anyone be sure that shortly after the B2P of SFP they won't decide on another model again?

  13. #178
    Rift Disciple fantasyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slipmat View Post
    random gibberish
    stop insulting other people. you're pissing off more people than any other person in the history of rift. paragonfury is a SAINT compared to you.

    i bet you have problems in real life, since all you do is take out your **** by being passive aggressive to every single poster in this thread.

    show me ONE post where you've helped someone.

    you havent.

    why dont you log off and let people discuss this in a civil and polite manner? we dont want your sort of people in this game.
    Last edited by fantasyy; 08-07-2016 at 09:35 PM.
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  14. #179
    Ascendant Slipmat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necalli View Post
    Rift:
    Essentials Edition - $50
    Ascended Souls - $40
    STP Standard-$40
    Total - $130

    WoW:
    Base Game (includes vanilla and five expansions) - $20
    Legion Standard-$50
    Total - $70

    GW2:
    Base Game - Free
    Heart of Thorns - $50
    Total - $50

    ESO:
    Base Game - $20
    5 DLC packs - $48
    Total - $68

    Again, you conveniently forgot the main point..you don't need any of the packs to play the game currently, you can level from 1 to 65 quite happily and never spend a penny, of course this now will change as you will need SP to progress further in the future.

    You'd be surprised how many people don't need/didn't buy the other packs, not everyone is a "must have everything or my life is not worth living" type, so saying everyone absolutely must buy, has to have all packs is totally misleading.

    Quote Originally Posted by fantasyy View Post
    .

    show me ONE post where you've helped someone.

    you havent.

    .
    Seems i was posting when you posted your kind words towards me

    Nope, go through all my posts, not once have i ever helped a person with a technical issue, a gameplay issue, nope not me, must be an impostor.
    Last edited by Slipmat; 08-07-2016 at 09:40 PM.

  15. #180
    Rift Disciple fantasyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slipmat View Post
    Again, you conveniently forgot the main point..you don't need any of the packs to play the game currently, you can level from 1 to 65 quite happily and never spend a penny, of course this now will change as you will need SP to progress further in the future.

    You'd be surprised how many people don't need/didn't buy the other packs, not everyone is a "must have everything or my life is not worth living" type, so saying everyone absolutely must buy, has to have all packs is totally misleading.



    Seems i was posting when you posted your kind words towards me

    Nope, go through all my posts, not once have i ever helped a person with a technical issue, a gameplay issue, nope not me, must be an impostor.

    1. dodging tough questions CHECK
    2. not doing anything productive in thread CHECK
    3. insulting forum members CHECK
    4. lying through clenched teeth CHECK
    5. spreading lies and misinformation CHECK


    ok we're done here folks, pack up.

    EDIT : i just read all your posts. not a single one that helped someone else. every single post filled with hate and vitriol towards your fellow players. take a chill pill dude, you dont have to hate everyone else. i'd say jesus loves you, but im not really sure.
    Last edited by fantasyy; 08-07-2016 at 09:55 PM.
    "flurpphbtphbtpsplurrrrrtpoootis"
    a.k.a. slap matt

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