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Thread: Hypothesis: Full bags = LAG

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    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Default Hypothesis: Full bags = LAG

    I have multiple raiding characters with the same settings and UI, and I've often noticed that my alt warrior and mage consistently had higher FPS and smoother gameplay than my main warrior in similar areas and circumstances.

    I checked multiple possible factors, and even after adjusting my characters to have the exact same settings, number of macros and add-ons, my alt warrior was still consistently smoother than my main. I even cut down my friends list on my main.

    Weapons, trinkets, and other items with ICDs or CDs continue tracking their cooldowns while not equipped, in both a character's bags and bank. One of the remaining differences between my main and alt was the sheer number of items they had. My alt is fairly spartan and has very little other than his gear. His bags and bank were originally mostly empty, and now only have artifacts and crafting materials. My main has 12 weapons in his bags alone, and another 20 or so in the bank. He has over 2 full bags of gear, and more in the bank.

    Do you guys think it's possible that fuller bags, particular bags filled with items that have cooldowns, reduce performance? Has anyone else noticed increased performance on their characters?

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Hewi's Avatar
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    Do you use any bag addons or AH addons?
    I'd suggest that it's possible that having fuller bags could introduce some kind of extra processing, if that's what you mean by lag (lower fps).
    Whether things refresh even though you don't see them, like item CDs or whatever, I have no idea.. would take someone that could verify that or not to know whether that's a factor though I guess.

    Do any addons stand out in the "eating too much cpu time" category?
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    Fia
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    Are you talking about LAG or FPS?
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    Fia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hewi View Post
    Do any addons stand out in the "eating too much cpu time" category?
    This doesn't matter, unless your CPU reaches something like 80% load, which it never will when running Rift.

    Apart from that, Rift does seem to have little issues here and there, but judging by my experience, nothing groundbreaking that would throttle performance a lot. I'll test it out again though, maybe something changed.
    Last edited by Fia; 06-20-2016 at 04:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hewi View Post
    Do you use any bag addons or AH addons?
    I'd suggest that it's possible that having fuller bags could introduce some kind of extra processing, if that's what you mean by lag (lower fps).
    Whether things refresh even though you don't see them, like item CDs or whatever, I have no idea.. would take someone that could verify that or not to know whether that's a factor though I guess.

    Do any addons stand out in the "eating too much cpu time" category?
    I do not on any character (Use to use Imhobags, disabled it)

    I use to think that items with ICDs reset their ICD every time they're unequipped (so if you unequip and re-equip a Threngar weapon, the proc would not activate for 18 seconds). Active use procs in T3 showed me that this clearly wasn't true, as you can see item cooldowns go down even while in your bag or bank, and certain trinkets go on a 30 second CD every time you re-equipped them.

    I'm curious if having a lot of items that had cooldowns to track ate up CPU time and noticeably reduces performance. It doesn't feel too far fetched, since having a very large friends list did.
    Last edited by DarkDaemon; 06-20-2016 at 05:01 PM.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Hewi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    This doesn't matter, unless your CPU reaches something like 80% load, which it never will when running Rift.
    I disagree. I've noticed an FPS difference in a raid environment, between running at say 5% addon CPU and 15% addon cpu whether it be an outdated version of KBM, LibScheduler or what have you. At the time, I don't think my CPU was being hit too hard, but that's assuming that there's nothing internal to the addon API that's throttling things where it shouldn't be. Friend of mine have had significant FPS increases just from disabling an addon or two while they're in raid, and usually it's an addon with a library or two that hasn't been updated for whatever reason.

    With all that said though, with multicore on and graphics cranked up pretty high, I find my cpu sitting well over 80% the entire time that Rift has focus / is in the foreground. I suppose it's possible that the multicore feature, enabling the client to consume far more CPU that in previously would, is leaving less wiggle room for other parts of Rift that aren't able to make use of more than a single core, but I'm not familiar with the inner workings of the client or really the addon API to make much of a call there.

    Edit: Again, this is what I've experienced. From reports from various players about what 'fixes' FPS issues for them, others may find that they've having zero issues with identical setups and this just makes it harder to figure out.
    Last edited by Hewi; 06-20-2016 at 09:11 PM.
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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    You're not taking into consideration the overall progression of your character and what could load there.

    Achievements, artifact sets, crafting professions, etc. There's a lot that newer alts don't have that mains do.

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    My alt warrior has ~4000 less achievement points, and one less profession than my main (which has all but Weaponsmith). It has less of those things, but not by that large of a margin. It could be a factor though.
    Last edited by DarkDaemon; 06-20-2016 at 09:35 PM.

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    It's entirely possible. Database lag is a real thing. Server and client have to stay in sync, more stuff added to bags along with achievements, relics, etc.; multiplied by number of people playing at any time, database can't keep up with the queries, lag.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaemon View Post
    My alt warrior has ~4000 less achievement points, and one less profession than my main (which has all but Weaponsmith). It has less of those things, but not by that large of a margin. It could be a factor though.
    Recipes probably differ from a main given the overall time/cost.
    Last edited by Riane; 06-20-2016 at 09:54 PM.

  11. #11
    Fia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hewi View Post
    I disagree. I've noticed an FPS difference in a raid environment, between running at say 5% addon CPU and 15% addon cpu whether it be an outdated version of KBM, LibScheduler or what have you. At the time, I don't think my CPU was being hit too hard, but that's assuming that there's nothing internal to the addon API that's throttling things where it shouldn't be. Friend of mine have had significant FPS increases just from disabling an addon or two while they're in raid, and usually it's an addon with a library or two that hasn't been updated for whatever reason.

    With all that said though, with multicore on and graphics cranked up pretty high, I find my cpu sitting well over 80% the entire time that Rift has focus / is in the foreground. I suppose it's possible that the multicore feature, enabling the client to consume far more CPU that in previously would, is leaving less wiggle room for other parts of Rift that aren't able to make use of more than a single core, but I'm not familiar with the inner workings of the client or really the addon API to make much of a call there.

    Edit: Again, this is what I've experienced. From reports from various players about what 'fixes' FPS issues for them, others may find that they've having zero issues with identical setups and this just makes it harder to figure out.
    Hmm. For me enabling or disabling addons has almost no impact at all, sadly. Also multicore changed exactly nothing for me in terms of FPS during raids, also very sadly.

    If addons have such a huge effect on your system though, then try to get rid of them as much as possible. E.g. use ACM instead of RiftMeter.
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    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    This doesn't matter, unless your CPU reaches something like 80% load, which it never will when running Rift.

    Apart from that, Rift does seem to have little issues here and there, but judging by my experience, nothing groundbreaking that would throttle performance a lot. I'll test it out again though, maybe something changed.
    It does matter. Choco's cooldowns had a buggy upgrade one week, which drastically increased the CPU load (although the addon CPU was only around 15-20%). Many people reported their FPS went down to low single digits.
    Last edited by DarkDaemon; 06-21-2016 at 12:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralon View Post
    It's entirely possible. Database lag is a real thing. Server and client have to stay in sync, more stuff added to bags along with achievements, relics, etc.; multiplied by number of people playing at any time, database can't keep up with the queries, lag.
    That's pretty much what i think as well. And it would explain all the ability delays/freezes in raids and fights, as the servers can't handle all the stuff happening on the fly and they get delayed till processed.

    Considering the effect the friends list had, i wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot more parts of the game that can cause similar issues, like bags, bank, achievments and so on...

    Kinda feels like at times, that your character is simply getting to "bloated", for a lack of a better word.
    Last edited by Jotunn; 06-21-2016 at 01:01 AM.

  14. #14
    Fia
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaemon View Post
    It does matter. Choco's cooldowns had a buggy upgrade one week, which drastically increased the CPU load (although the addon CPU was only around 15-20%). Many people reported their FPS went down to low single digits.
    That's a problem with the addon itself, not with Rift. The original hypothesis was that full bags cause performance problems (even though no addons are enabled I suppose). Now that you mention it, though, it might be an UI issue in general. When I turn off my UI, I get a FPS increase of around 20fps (this much of an increase does seem kinda odd to me).
    Last edited by Fia; 06-21-2016 at 02:07 AM.
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  15. #15
    Fia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralon View Post
    It's entirely possible. Database lag is a real thing. Server and client have to stay in sync, more stuff added to bags along with achievements, relics, etc.; multiplied by number of people playing at any time, database can't keep up with the queries, lag.
    From what I've counted so far (for the past week), we have around 2000 (regularly) active players on NA. From what I know about databases, any current database is able to handle that kind of load. It also depends on how you implement database updates, e.g. if you implement an updateCheckHash() or something like that, you don't have to query the whole database all the time, as you have most of the data saved in volatile memory first. But this is just speculation, I have no idea how it is implemented, I'd have to use wireshark and check traffic in order to know that (and I'm too lazy to do that :).

    But yes, database lag is a real thing and could be one source of lag.
    Last edited by Fia; 06-21-2016 at 02:39 AM.
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