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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: New bolstered stats from a dedicated casual player point of view.

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple OldeThom's Avatar
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    Default New bolstered stats from a dedicated casual player point of view.

    I've read through the two threads (http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...0-screams.html and http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...ost-t1-t2.html) on this subject thus far (I'm sure there will be more) and I am curious about this. A very mixed reaction. I have 8 level 65 characters all at least with 1000 hit, with my MM rogue main at 1200 and cp soft-capped. About as far as I can go without buying raiding gear which I will not do. Now, I am not a raider in Rift, but I have raided and done large group (world) encounters in other MMO's in the past, just not recently. In Rift, I have done many NMR's, IA's and NTE's, plus most of the expert dungeons.

    I know 50% of the raiders are: dedicated, perfectionist and elitist AND that's okay because in many respects they've earned it and I respect them (as well as find them annoying). The WoW guild I was in for years was hard-core raiding and into the whole progressive thing. The best slot I ever got was, 2nd core group sub for my Shadow Priest. Most of the time I was in the 3rd core group running the same content over and over again hoping for my gear to drop so I could progress. I suspect the RNG in Rift is no better and the grind just as intense plus there is the whole gear issue (eg. - http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...ring-rift.html).

    Now this whole bolstering thing with T1 and T2 seems interesting to me and I would like to try raiding, but I belong to a family guild (which I will not leave) and there is no game queue for dungeon/instance raiding. I know a few folks in raiding guilds, but their slots are taken up and I could go on a list.The dungeon and raiding forum seems like a good place to advertise but I never see that there (I read that forum every day). So how would one go about getting into a raid?

    In closing this, I am a bit worried about being compared to a union scab and accused of being dragged around on the coattails of others. I'll do my part, but it will take time to learn the encounters. I can take constructive comments, positive or negative, but hate just out right negativity and arrogance - that kind of crap just does not roll off me like it used to. So I'd like to but it just does not seem practical (given the above).
    Last edited by OldeThom; 03-30-2016 at 09:48 AM. Reason: grammar edit

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara
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    I personally think this is a good thing for the average Rift player...someone who puts in their time through other aspects of the game, would love to try raiding but have been held back by either the lack of actual hit, or the inability to get into the 'MUST HAVE 1400 HIT AND ALL ACHIEVES' pug raids. Anytime we can explore new (to us) content is a good thing, and while this is only for a limited time, the opportunity to get drops as well as earning marks while gaining the experience of the mechanics, should put them over the edge when the bolstering is discontinued.
    My initial thread I think is there a certain portion of our Raiding community who deem casuals to be unworthy of the gear drops and how Trion is becoming EZMODE. That will lead to people starting topics about how this is why raiding guilds are leaving, blah blah blah. But for me and the people I enjoy playing with, this is great!
    Last edited by SmidgePlays; 03-30-2016 at 10:21 AM.
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    Rift Disciple Cyng's Avatar
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    Thing is, it really does not matter that you now make the hit required. If you don't have the stats necessary to generate the DPS to make the boss kill check you are not going to be able to progress any more than you do now.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple OldeThom's Avatar
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    Ah, so it is really about the stats and not the player. Sounds like a F2P catch 22. Then I will go no further.

    end of line.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Yeah, having the required hit/endurance is good and all... but not getting a main stat bolster as a dps isn't helpful at all. The raids still have DPS checks and you'll be hard pressed to find an open spot in a raid willing to carry you. Longer the fight drags on is more time for someone to get hit with a 1 shot, healer running out of mana etc etc.

    Good idea in theory, poorly executed.

  6. #6
    Ral
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    There is also very little margin for error in raids, while the mechanics are easy by many experienced raiders standards, if you are not able to perform the mechanics, you will die, and your raid will notice even if it is not mentioned, and if was to something blatantly avoidable (and especially if you were told about it), you will not be quickly forgiven.

    Even having the hit and gear is no guarantee one can perform, many people could be given full T3 relics and would still do half the DPS they should in T1 simply because they die to mechanics (the same mechanics even) over and over.

  7.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #7
    Rift Team Ocho's Avatar
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    Simply having the hit won't make you able to raid. Neither will the gear as many folks have pointed out.

    That being said, not having the hit is a pretty rough barrier to climb over. And while this doesn't remove all barriers, it does make it a bit easier in some respects to take the first step into T1, or from T1 into T2. Hopefully some folks will take advantage of this from now until the end of Carnival, and maybe they'll enjoy raiding. It's also a big opportunity for guilds to get some folks in who maybe aren't super geared yet and try them out to see if they have potential for joining a guild.

    It's a bonus that folks should feel free to take advantage of, and if they can make it work it's a win for everyone. Actively dissuading folks from even trying seems to be a no win situation, it's not like a good player with decent gear and a slight bump in hit can't contribute in a meaningful way. Just because they don't have perfect gear doesn't mean they aren't a potentially good player.

    There are plenty of folks out there who run PUG raids OP, I'd look around for them and see about getting a potential invite. You might enjoy it, and there's no reason you have to leave the guild you like.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Actively dissuading folks from even trying seems to be a no win situation, it's not like a good player with decent gear and a slight bump in hit can't contribute in a meaningful way.
    Ocho, i think that the problem here is not the hit, the problem with the Raids i tihnk that isn't the hit in a veeeery long time, damm iv'e enought hit with an alter to make t3 and im unable to do proper dps even for ipg.

    The people that have the buff in hit must known their specs, and do a proper dps/healing and as almost anyone could see in experts people dont do it. Is usual to see people doing 15-20k (and im generous) in experts with equipment pieces that give them 1100+ hit, and now this is the people that are supposed to try Rof, or even igp.

    How long take for the "good player" that you refer to get the saga weapon(300 hit) t3 gaunlets (200 hit), t2 helmet (175 hit) and some wf 150 hit pieces, maybe two weeks?, three weeks at most?, thats not the problem.

    You have the most clar example in the experts, why do you think that people ask for 60k dps for experts?, not really to cut 1-2 mins in a shorter run, but to avoid people that enter the random nte's queue without any idea of playing their role. I would bet nobody have a problem with a dps making 30-40k on a Nte, but 60+ is asked to avoid the 15k guy.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Meteorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldeThom View Post
    Ah, so it is really about the stats and not the player. Sounds like a F2P catch 22. Then I will go no further.
    You said your main has 1200 hit already. That means it already had enough hit to do T2 raid anyway without this hit boost so get on the lookout for HK or iGP PUGs.

    The thing you have to realise for your alts is that going from a suit of gear with 1000 hit to one with 1200 hit doesn't just increase your hit rating, but also all of your other stats like dex, str, end, cp, pc, ap and so on. This boost purely increases your hit so if you took in your 1000 hit character, they'd suddenly have 1520 hit, but all the rest of their stats would be a tier too low to generate the levels of dps or healing required for the instances to get bosses dead.

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser Electrah's Avatar
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    I really hoped those patch notes were an April's Fool joke (and a sarcastic response from Trion to some of the forum posts being made lately), since from a player's point of view (or mine at least, and the people I talked to), this is exactly opposite to what the game needs at the moment.

    We need ways to increase the average skill level of the casual playerbase, instead of feeding them more gear or giving them the feeling that their gear is worth more than it actually is.
    It is maybe hard to imagine how annoying it is having to deal with characters who sign up as dps and end up doing half of the tank's dps, and then use the "yeah but look at my gear" excuse or even worse: have some solid raid quality equipment but not even the slightest clue on how to use that potential... I remember doing dungeons with my cleric alt and outparsing those people as purifier just to make a point, but I'm done with that.
    Call that elitist if you want, I call it realist.

    Please people, at least *try* pulling your own weight: it is an MMO and not a solo game...

    If this is truly the direction the game is moving towards, the people in charge at Trion will have managed to drive even me away. And I am a very very very patient person...
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moyah View Post
    Please people, at least *try* pulling your own weight: it is an MMO and not a solo game...
    The funny thing about this sentence is, that in a single player game you cannot rely on others to carry you. If a boss has to die in 1 minute, you will fail if you do not have the DPS required. Then you will go to the forums looking for a way to get better, you will improve, and finally kill this boss.

    Only in an MMO you can rely on others to counterbalance your own bad performance (or not even be aware of how bad you performance is, as the game does not give you a direct feedback). Others are better? It's just their equip. Others call you bad? They're elitist.

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser Electrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elayara View Post
    as the game does not give you a direct feedback
    Except for Arak shouting on top of his head: "You fail !" in NMRs ;)

    But yes I agree with you...

    *edit*
    Let's compare this situation to the incredibly fun slasher ARPG "Grim Dawn" that I am playing as well, just to show how correct Elayara's post is:
    You can also make a hybrid spec there, and play whatever you want. The Devotion system adds a lot of ways to customise your character on top of that. But, in the end no matter which class or hybrid you play, you end up picking the same trusted constellations since especially in Ultimate difficulty, you get swatted like an annoying fly by Hero or Boss mobs (you die in literally less than half a second) if you chose those traits by lore or "fun-factor" instead of effectiveness. Then you end up going back to town and respeccing until you find a way to deal with the encounter...
    Last edited by Electrah; 03-31-2016 at 01:20 AM.
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  13. #13
    Rift Chaser Klingensturm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrdp View Post
    Ocho, i think that the problem here is not the hit, the problem with the Raids i tihnk that isn't the hit in a veeeery long time, damm iv'e enought hit with an alter to make t3 and im unable to do proper dps even for ipg.

    The people that have the buff in hit must known their specs, and do a proper dps/healing and as almost anyone could see in experts people dont do it. Is usual to see people doing 15-20k (and im generous) in experts with equipment pieces that give them 1100+ hit, and now this is the people that are supposed to try Rof, or even igp.

    How long take for the "good player" that you refer to get the saga weapon(300 hit) t3 gaunlets (200 hit), t2 helmet (175 hit) and some wf 150 hit pieces, maybe two weeks?, three weeks at most?, thats not the problem.

    You have the most clar example in the experts, why do you think that people ask for 60k dps for experts?, not really to cut 1-2 mins in a shorter run, but to avoid people that enter the random nte's queue without any idea of playing their role. I would bet nobody have a problem with a dps making 30-40k on a Nte, but 60+ is asked to avoid the 15k guy.
    This it is. People still play pet specs in NTS or NM Rifts or weekly Boss kill raids in PTW. Not having the gear runed properly or using dream orbs.
    The next thing is they have exactly 1 spec and if they can play it is another story.
    Last week i had a guy with T2-T3 gear in NTE pulling 45k as a Reaver (i know enough for NTEs but anyways way below the potential )
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  14. #14
    Champion of Telara Ongar's Avatar
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    The universal MMO Raid PuG join requirement is called

    E+E
    Experience and Equip

    It's not E or E, like some forum discussions try to make you believe, its actually E+E.
    Experience includes pulling your weight, knowing your class/spec, knowing the encounters. Equip means having consumables, enchants and gear.

    When I joined Rift PuGs in classic E+E was balanced. At this point however average player skill decreased, while demands on equip skyrocketed. The balance is broken.
    So on the one hand we need to counter PuG Leaders setting the bar as high as they like (for a fast&smooth run) and at the same time we need to get average skill level back on track.

    My suggestion is that raids that have proven to be puggable, Im not talking about PBB, ID or MoM, Im talking about GSB, DH, TDQ etc. get included in the lfg system.If you lack the gear, you get a bolster.
    So with all barriers removed, there is a danger that too many underperformers are in the queue. In order to counter that you can add a new barrier, a barrier that makes sense aka an attunement process. That can be modified HM Solo chronicles, it can be Master Mode dungeons etc, it can even be something like the Nightmare Saga.

    So yea bolster, lfg and attunements combined, then you have a real chance that raid participation goes through the roof.
    Last edited by Ongar; 03-31-2016 at 01:25 AM.

  15. #15
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    Now this whole bolstering thing with T1 and T2 seems interesting to me and I would like to try raiding, but I belong to a family guild (which I will not leave) and there is no game queue for dungeon/instance raiding. I know a few folks in raiding guilds, but their slots are taken up and I could go on a list.The dungeon and raiding forum seems like a good place to advertise but I never see that there (I read that forum every day). So how would one go about getting into a raid?
    I really feel for you on this one. There are a lot of casual/social guilds that still attempt to do raids with the people they have that are interested so I suggest you talk to someone from those guilds as they usually lack a few people for 20man raids and maybe you can become one of their reliable not-guildie-but-still-better-than-a-pug raid members. They're usually more chilled and not as elitist, too. If you're on EU feel free to pm me and we can chat.
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