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Thread: Should we have a "Proving Ground" ?

  1. #16
    Rift Chaser ShayolGhul88's Avatar
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    So many hours logged of half completed experts due to pugs..... permanent letters imprinted on my forehead now
    Pls respond

  2. #17
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    Let me answer the OP's question with a NO.

    Fundamentally, five mans are meant to supplement raiding not be the focus of the end-game experience. The fact that five mans are so bad is not a bug, it's a feature. Trion wants the players to buy gear, not earn it. That's how they make money. The psychological term for this strategy is "calculated misery". The goal is to make the experience so awful that the player spends money to avoid it.

    So stop this silly "proving grounds" nonsense and loosen up that wallet.
    Last edited by Ethmar; 12-29-2015 at 07:21 PM.

  3. #18
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethmar View Post
    Let me answer the OP's question with a NO.

    Fundamentally, five mans are meant to supplement raiding not be the focus of the end-game experience. The fact that five mans are so bad is not a bug, it's a feature. Trion wants the players to buy gear, not earn it. That's how they make money. The psychological term for this strategy is "calculated misery". The goal is to make the experience so awful that the player spends money to avoid it.

    So stop this silly "proving grounds" nonsense and loosen up that wallet.
    money cant fix stupid. it can only cover it up.

    example : citadel NTE, there's a guy with relic T2 store wep and half T2 gear whos doing an impressive 22k dps. with his kind of gear, i can break 65-70k easy in any class.

    also, the ONLY functioning "tutorial" is the dimension one. i guess this is now a dimension-only game, according to devs.

  4. #19
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repster View Post
    If that's not easily accessible, I don't know what is. Getting it only requires WANTING it.
    And knowing that it's a thing in the first place-- which many players won't, especially if they're new to MMOs (or at least MMOs with addons).

    Someone who isn't used to the genre might not have any concept that there are user-made UI modifications that are permitted (and facilitated) by the developers, and the idea of using a tool like that to measure DPS output can be alien to them.

  5. #20
    Plane Touched Liandell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethmar View Post
    Let me answer the OP's question with a NO.

    Fundamentally, five mans are meant to supplement raiding not be the focus of the end-game experience. The fact that five mans are so bad is not a bug, it's a feature. Trion wants the players to buy gear, not earn it. That's how they make money. The psychological term for this strategy is "calculated misery". The goal is to make the experience so awful that the player spends money to avoid it.

    So stop this silly "proving grounds" nonsense and loosen up that wallet.
    But it doesn't have to be this way!

    We could have decent tutorials to teach people the ropes so they don't feel so lost. So many players here are so experienced they just take their knowledge for granted.

    Having a proving grounds dimension contest would also be good for Trion's income, as I'm sure plenty of dimensioneers would buy stuff off the store. It seems like a win/win for everybody.

  6. #21
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    dungeons now is out of gearing. most players prefer get basic gear from pvp. it's a way easier and bring you 125 hit gear instantly. all what they know from bg - just stay and pew-pew.
    then they need to upgrade it and forced to go into dungeons. of course they have no idea about basic dungeon mechanics. I think it's a main reason, why you can see well-geared players, who have no idea what to do.
    it's a trion pvp politics fault. they must not give a free 175 hit gear as a basic. it's kill all dungeon stuff, make it useless and bring up well-geared ignoramuses.

  7. #22
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Think the easiest way to show new players is, after the boss dies, display a

    "X did most damage to the boss! Next closest was Y at Z amount!"
    Meciel - Mage - Defer Death - Greybriar
    12/12 T1, 14/15 T2, 1/9 T3

  8. #23
    Rift Disciple KellionBane's Avatar
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    Could always... You know... Pug less. Socialize with the people who can play their classes well, and add them to your friend list. Doesn't take much to fill a group these days when everyone can switch between multiple roles. And usually the people that do one thing well, can do other things just as well.

  9. #24
    Plane Touched Liandell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KellionBane View Post
    Could always... You know... Pug less. Socialize with the people who can play their classes well, and add them to your friend list. Doesn't take much to fill a group these days when everyone can switch between multiple roles. And usually the people that do one thing well, can do other things just as well.
    I've already addressed my counters to that argument in my original post. I don't see not PUGging as a valid solution, because that's ultimately bad for getting new blood into the game. This game is old, new players are essential. If all a new player sees is "LFM 1450+ hit dung, 70k dps or kick," they're going to feel pretty bad. Compound that with their first foray into a dungeon being a rough affair where they are either begrudgingly carried or nobody knows what to do and it turns into a 45 min exercise in frustration...well, I wouldn't blame 'em for not sticking around.

    I'd rather see a community have a solid playerbase and players able to pull their own weight to get gear than one that grows increasingly clique-ish.

  10. #25
    Champion of Telara Wackywoo's Avatar
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    Proving grounds for nte's? lol
    That is a bit elitist isn't it.

    Why not just take casual out of the game all together.

  11. #26
    Plane Touched Liandell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wackywoo View Post
    Proving grounds for nte's? lol
    That is a bit elitist isn't it.

    Why not just take casual out of the game all together.
    The E in NTE stands for Expert. Someone who has a particular proficiency in a field. The requirements I proposed are not outlandish, they're the absolute bare minimum.

    For casuals, there's still normals, IAs and open world content!

  12. #27
    Champion of Telara Wackywoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liandell View Post
    The E in NTE stands for Expert. Someone who has a particular proficiency in a field. The requirements I proposed are not outlandish, they're the absolute bare minimum.

    For casuals, there's still normals, IAs and open world content!
    If casuals want to do expert dungeons, the best way they will learn them is if they actually do them.
    Your suggestion only encourages new players to be kicked at the start of the dungeon.

    I can just see it now... A new player who wants to learn experts gets kicked for not pulling 60-80k st dps in the proving grounds.

    How would you suggest they get the gear to pull those numbers when they can't 'Qualify' through a proving ground?

    It's bad enough that people want 1400-1500 hit to do nte's.
    Now this?

    Seriously.

    I'd rather players be encouraged to do nte's, not be scared away by elitist benchmarking rules.

  13. #28
    Plane Touched Liandell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wackywoo View Post
    If casuals want to do expert dungeons, the best way they will learn them is if they actually do them.
    Your suggestion only encourages new players to be kicked at the start of the dungeon.

    I can just see it now... A new player who wants to learn experts gets kicked for not pulling 60-80k st dps in the proving grounds.

    How would you suggest they get the gear to pull those numbers when they can't 'Qualify' through a proving ground?

    It's bad enough that people want 1400-1500 hit to do nte's.
    Now this?

    Seriously.

    I'd rather players be encouraged to do nte's, not be scared away by elitist benchmarking rules.
    Or they wouldn't, because everybody who is able to queue into one has to be able to meet bare minimum dps requirements (if you read my OP, my requirements are not that freaking high!). It would mean everybody would trust the system to give them competent teammates instead of dreading having to resort to LFG. It would create much less friction in pickup groups, and it gives casuals the confidence to say they've proven their ability to be a contributing part of the team. ATM you get people being summarily kicked without understanding why.

    I can't understand why you'd want to restrict the knowledge and skill of the playerbase.
    Last edited by Liandell; 12-30-2015 at 01:47 AM.

  14. #29
    Shadowlander
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    i dont think proving grounds will fix anything in this regards. On the contrary you will thin out the already thin player base. instead of wanting to players to get experience through solo content you should take your time and actually teach players you think are underperforming (i bet the tank will never forget how to interrupt in your example). thats the whole point of playing an group base game - helping and beeing helped. in the game with the bad 3 letters proving grounds did nothing - the gear level requirements are going up and up to insane levels.

    You want casuals only doing normals, ias and open world content - dont be shocked that there will be less and less ppl interested in raiding in the longer run (less ppl in experts means less ppl there taking the step to raiding). You say you do not need inexperienced ppl and dont need their payments in the shop and that they should go somewhere else to play? oh dear .. how do you think the devs are able to put out content you enjoy aka expert or raiding?

    I know a game where those experienced players get a little bonus when they are in a group with new and inexperienced ppl (for example a bit more currency). And guess what. There is no flames, the ppl are actually explaining things, no such rushs and in the end an overall enjoyable experience for everyone!

  15. #30
    Champion of Telara Ongar's Avatar
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    Currently we have so many barriers to raiding (hit, the cost of upgrading/runing/orbing, PuG Leaders that require Achie) that even more "attunements" on top would be bad.

    If we had a system like Swtor where you get upbolstered to normal mode raiding via autoqueue then a Proving Grounds feature would make sense to ensure that players can deliver a basic performance with their class/spec.

    So first tear down those barriers that are just busy work and then you can replace them with a barrier that makes sense.
    Last edited by Ongar; 12-30-2015 at 02:03 AM.

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