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Thread: G4TV Interview with Scott Hartsman

  1. #31
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raive View Post
    I believe what Apoth is saying...even I understand it...is that no matter if someone solos to max level cap...it STILL leads to grouping/raiding.

    So in the inevitable end...you're going to have to group.
    What Apoth, and others, are essentially saying is they don't care about content at level 20 or level 30. They want to be the top level as soon as possible and they want Trion to make sure they make loads and loads of meaningful content at that level from the off. At the start of the game Trion will be making content for the majority of people who are enjoying levelling through the game, and seeing what a wondrous would has been created.

    Then a few people are ignoring all that, flying through to the end of the game and complaining that not enough has been done for them. They are making demands and, more often than not, developers are thinking that they want to keep everyone around and so are turning their resources to keeping this faction of player happily.

    This is skewing the resources of the development house when they've already created plenty of content but, for some reason, players are not interested in it.

    Why must the game be all about the endgame? What is this natural need to have better content when you have reached the top level? Is it a common case of ego, that I'm better than you?

    I'm not saying ignore the top level, but I don't understand why it needs to be top priority so damn early when the game has been developing for 3 or 4 years to provide content all over.

    I'd just like to see a game not think raiding/the endgame are the bees knees for once.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by anagain View Post
    Well I personally wouldn't mind seeing opt in or opt out PvP on all servers. I just don't want idiots who rush to the top then choose to sit in major quest hubs ganking lower level players to ruin my fun if I'm enjoying what's provided.

    Not that I'm calling you an idiots who likes to do that...just making a point about how I would see it going.
    thats why im calling for more of a DAOC RVR type system. where you choose when you want to enter PVP.

    And do you have to be top level to PvP? When I've PvPed in games I've actually found it most fun at mid-level ranges. I had huge amounts of fun PvPing in WoW in the Barrens and that forest north of it, and then Tarren Mill. IN WAR I had a lot more fun around levels 10 to 20. I just often seems more relaxed and fun at that level, where as when you join in with the big boys it becomes overly serious and all about ganking.
    again in DAOC they had battlegrounds and while it was fun you knew it "didn't matter" in the grand scheme of things. where as max level PVP keep fights were important.

    WTB the above item .... mine broke

  3. #33
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Raive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anagain View Post
    We need to cut out the attitude that the endgame is where it's at. People complain about too much solo content in games but I think this belief that the game only gets interesting when you reach the last level is an even darker problem of our times.

    The game should be interesting from level 1 to level whatever and devs should be designng content to make you want to stick at level 30 and do what there is at that level before you move on.

    Anyone that gets to the endgame and complains that there's nothing to do then looks a fool. At least in my eyes.
    What about those who don't "rush" and get to the end game and complain there's nothing to do? Just wondering.

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    Plane Walker Skorne's Avatar
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    Max level endgame might be where it's at after some time but I for one intend to explore every corner of Telara while levelling up, and I hope it takes a very long time.

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    Plane Touched Avram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anagain View Post
    What Apoth, and others, are essentially saying is they don't care about content at level 20 or level 30. They want to be the top level as soon as possible and they want Trion to make sure they make loads and loads of meaningful content at that level from the off. At the start of the game Trion will be making content for the majority of people who are enjoying levelling through the game, and seeing what a wondrous would has been created.

    Then a few people are ignoring all that, flying through to the end of the game and complaining that not enough has been done for them. They are making demands and, more often than not, developers are thinking that they want to keep everyone around and so are turning their resources to keeping this faction of player happily.

    This is skewing the resources of the development house when they've already created plenty of content but, for some reason, players are not interested in it.

    Why must the game be all about the endgame? What is this natural need to have better content when you have reached the top level? Is it a common case of ego, that I'm better than you?

    I'm not saying ignore the top level, but I don't understand why it needs to be top priority so damn early when the game has been developing for 3 or 4 years to provide content all over.

    I'd just like to see a game not think raiding/the endgame are the bees knees for once.
    This is one reason I think it should be very hard to attain max level.. In my ideal MMO it'd be 6 months after release that you finally saw a few people hitting max level. And WITH that would be awesome content for all the levels in between.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoth View Post
    exactly even in WoW which is considered the most casual and solo friendly game around. guess what the majority do at the endgame.

    Group dungeons for items
    Raid for items
    PVP

    all which require a group, well PVP does to an extent.
    And WoW is the epitome of the problem. That game levels so fast that it has become just a grind to reach the end as quick as possible.

    You almost seem to be assuming that Trion are making, or should be making, a game like WoW.

    If I thought they were then i wouldn't be here. I'm hoping for something a little bit more demanding and/or interesting than WoW.

    It was people jumping on board and demanding features in line with WoW that helped ruin Vanguard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anagain View Post
    What Apoth, and others, are essentially saying is they don't care about content at level 20 or level 30. They want to be the top level as soon as possible and they want Trion to make sure they make loads and loads of meaningful content at that level from the off..
    I do care about content from level 1-50 because i know others don't play like me. im not in anyway shape or form saying everyone should rush, im saying this is how i play. I hate leveling the faster i get it over with the happier i am.

    I view it(leveling) as the punishment i must endure in order to start having fun.

    as for content i know the devs won't be able to provide enough content right off the bat. thats another reason i call for PVP, player vs player conflict is always enjoyable neverending content heh.

    WTB the above item .... mine broke

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avram View Post
    I"Let's make sure everyone can solo to max level comfortably" is a horrible mentality to have when designing an MMO.
    Thats what he did to EQ2.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoth View Post
    I do care about content from level 1-50 because i know others don't play like me. im not in anyway shape or form saying everyone should rush, im saying this is how i play. I hate leveling the faster i get it over with the happier i am.

    I view it(leveling) as the punishment i must endure in order to start having fun.

    as for content i know the devs won't be able to provide enough content right off the bat. thats another reason i call for PVP, player vs player conflict is always enjoyable neverending content heh.
    You hate leveling? Then why do you play RPG's? Why don't you just player shooters? Or Heroes of newerth? Then you can skip the "Punishment" and get right to the fun!

  10. #40
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Raive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anagain View Post
    What Apoth, and others, are essentially saying is they don't care about content at level 20 or level 30. They want to be the top level as soon as possible and they want Trion to make sure they make loads and loads of meaningful content at that level from the off. At the start of the game Trion will be making content for the majority of people who are enjoying levelling through the game, and seeing what a wondrous would has been created.

    Then a few people are ignoring all that, flying through to the end of the game and complaining that not enough has been done for them. They are making demands and, more often than not, developers are thinking that they want to keep everyone around and so are turning their resources to keeping this faction of player happily.

    This is skewing the resources of the development house when they've already created plenty of content but, for some reason, players are not interested in it.

    Why must the game be all about the endgame? What is this natural need to have better content when you have reached the top level? Is it a common case of ego, that I'm better than you?

    I'm not saying ignore the top level, but I don't understand why it needs to be top priority so damn early when the game has been developing for 3 or 4 years to provide content all over.

    I'd just like to see a game not think raiding/the endgame are the bees knees for once.
    Well developers know that eventually (and this is everygame) the game will become topheavy. I will take Vanguard for instance that had NO top-end content for how many months? I know that example is probably the extreme but this is what needs to not happen.

    When the endgame is reached by the first players, they aren't expecting the world (trust me), however when weeks/months go by and you realize there is a neglect in content, then you will have a problem.

    it is something developers have begun to embrace (not sure if Rift has), but you need to balance your efforts and understand there there needs to be low level, mid level, and high level content coming right out the box. Plain and simple. We as players can not be greedy of one another. Everyone has different tastes in content, some absolutely love low level, others high level. If some believe high level content is where its at (such as myself) then hey, so be it. No player is lesser than the other because they prefer such content or such playstyle.

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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raive View Post
    What about those who don't "rush" and get to the end game and complain there's nothing to do? Just wondering.
    By which time it should be a more advanced game and more of the player base should be at that stage. I'm talking about games devs creating content for the minority that appears to be the case.

    Your mixing words. You know what I mean.


    We're not getting anywhere here...we're just moving in circles and will end up recounting the same points over and over. I don't want to change any players way of playing a game they choose to play for but I hate seeing the same old developer mistakes over and over, often enforced by a vocal few. Let's move on to discussing this when we know the ins and outs before we get heated. It's no point arguing over this. We see things differently.
    Last edited by anagain; 05-11-2010 at 11:45 AM.

  12. #42
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Raive's Avatar
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    Making leveling harder will not solve anything. People...don't underestimate player abilities. You make it harder, you will have others that complain. Set the tempo, but understand that someone will break your system. Happens every game.

    #retiredBear #teamBBCs #puffForeverMad

  13. #43
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Raive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anagain View Post
    By which time it should be a more advanced game and more of the player base should be at that stage. I'm talking about games devs creating content for the minority that appears to be the case.

    Your mixing words. You know what I mean.
    Again I will focus on Vanguard. They stuffed the living non-sense out of the mid level range and zip at the end-game. Do not follow this route. its not about making content for the minority, it should already bethere during beta/pre-launch. That's what I'm saying.

    #retiredBear #teamBBCs #puffForeverMad

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by anagain View Post
    We need to cut out the attitude that the endgame is where it's at. People complain about too much solo content in games but I think this belief that the game only gets interesting when you reach the last level is an even darker problem of our times.

    The game should be interesting from level 1 to level whatever and devs should be designng content to make you want to stick at level 30 and do what there is at that level before you move on.

    Anyone that gets to the endgame and complains that there's nothing to do then looks a fool. At least in my eyes.
    I agree with you 100%

    To me, the game is all about the journey, not how fast I reach the end.

    It took me 3+ years to reach max level in EQ (75 at the time) and 1.5 years to reach level 50 in Vanguard.

    In 3+ years and with 17 alts I still haven't seen all of the low level content Vanguard has to offer. That game is an explorer's paradise.
    Dual Targeting - The Targeting System of the Modern MMO

    If the Lord of the Rings movie trilogy was made by today's MMO designers, the first 8 hours would be condensed into 30 minutes, and the last hour would be stretched out over 8.5 hours. It would be all about 'The Ending' and not about 'The Journey'.

  15. #45
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Raive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyde View Post
    I agree with you 100%

    To me, the game is all about the journey, not how fast I reach the end.

    It took me 3+ years to reach max level in EQ (75 at the time) and 1.5 years to reach level 50 in Vanguard.

    In 3+ years and with 17 alts I still haven't seen all of the low level content Vanguard has to offer. That game is an explorer's paradise.
    Like I said in the othet thread. Vanguard has an epic amount of content through the low levels and mid levels, if they even gave a fragment of their mid level content to high levels, we would not have found VG isn such a hole it is today as it didn't close out retention.

    Nonetheless it is a game of exploration. I remember late summer of 2007 back on Shidreth...nearly everyon and their mama had a lvl 50 (even players from TPO who didn't rush) were stuck with nothing to do.

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