+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 63
Like Tree113Likes

  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: How many devs left working on rift?

  1.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #31
    Rift Team Ocho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,933

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fopod View Post
    What's the devs thought on Reaver breaking the entire game balance?

    I can point you to like 50 threads where Reaver is the main topic and none of those thread had a single answer from any dev on how they feel about Reaver being completely broken.
    The majority of players are still in the dark regarding what Trion think about Reaver or if there is anything that will be done.

    If the class guys don't have time, then please can you answer that question? If you don't want to do it in this thread, I'll gladly provide you with multiple links to other threads you can answer on.
    Reaver could probably use a little adjustment. It hasn't been finalized yet or we'd likely communicate about it. This has been a subject of internal discussion.

    That being said people creating the same threads over and over again, and it's mostly the same folks discussing the issue, doesn't add extra weight to the topic. If you want to discuss something it's better to use an existing thread rather than creating yet another thread that the same people can argue in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seelinnikoi View Post
    The real question is:

    When will players be able to do a PVP match against the devs to release some frustration on both parts?

    Playtest on Friday. 4 PM Pacific.
    Last edited by Ocho; 07-30-2015 at 01:36 PM.

  2. #32
    Rift Chaser Fopod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    336

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Reaver could probably use a little adjustment. It hasn't been finalized yet or we'd likely communicate about it. This has been a subject of internal discussion.
    Excuse my sarcastic comment here, but...
    Dodge isn't very effective in PvP.

    Nevertheless, thank you for at least saying something about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    That being said people creating the same threads over and over again, and it's mostly the same folks discussing the issue, doesn't add extra weight to the topic. If you want to discuss something it's better to use an existing thread rather than creating yet another thread that the same people can argue in.
    So what is the best way to get a point across? Should I ask my entire guild and my friends to ask their friends and guilds to all come post on a thread I start to approve of something I said?
    Pretty sure petitions are as useless when it comes to that...
    Last edited by Fopod; 07-30-2015 at 01:40 PM.

  3. #33
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    That being said people creating the same threads over and over again, and it's mostly the same folks discussing the issue, doesn't add extra weight to the topic. If you want to discuss something it's better to use an existing thread rather than creating yet another thread that the same people can argue in.
    That has more to do with the size of the forum community than anything, and the size of the forum community is something you have a significant, direct influence on.

    Regardless, I don't think the source of an argument or complaint is a valid reason to dismiss a complaint as unworthy of response, whether that response be writing or action.

  4.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #34
    Rift Team Ocho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,933

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fopod View Post
    So what is the best way to get a point across? Should I ask my entire guild and my friends to ask their friends and guilds to all come post on a thread I start to approve of something I said?
    Pretty sure petitions are as useless when it comes to that...
    Logical argument and avoiding hyperbole are the best ways to get a point across. And we have had significant discussion based in part on many points players have brought up. We tend to hold off communication until we have at least a very good idea of exactly what the solution is, since communicating it before then can mislead people. And we usually avoid discussing things in threads when people are slinging around hyperbole and bad information.

    So to TL;DR
    • Post good stuff
    • Don't phrase opinions as facts
    • Include objective data whenever possible
    • Don't start new threads, use existing ones
    • Don't get trolled and get into fights with people

    That gives you the best chances of getting a response, or us reading and seriously considering the feedback.

  5. #35
    Rift Chaser Fopod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    336

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    • Post good stuff
    • Don't phrase opinions as facts
    • Include objective data whenever possible
    • Don't start new threads, use existing ones
    • Don't get trolled and get into fights with people

    That gives you the best chances of getting a response, or us reading and seriously considering the feedback.
    I agree wholeheartedly with your list.

    But...

    I'll redirect you to this one post which was also made into this thread.

    I think it's a good choice considering the current feeling of a lot of mages about Harbinger.

    1. Looks like pretty good stuff to me.
    2. Looks mostly factual considering the video to back up the claims.
    3. The veracity of the data may not be 100% accurate due to the nature of the data required, but the data collected looks pretty objective to me.
    4. Fair enough, starting a new thread on it wasn't very good.
    5. I doubt anyone has control over "getting trolled", especially when the poster is well known amongst the Rift Community. I do agree on the fights with people part.

    There hasn't been a single post from any devs regarding Harbinger situation post 3.3.
    Was that post I linked ignored because the thread was too heated/filled with trolls/unconstructive?


    Edit: Sorry if I may sound hostile, I am just, like a lot of players I know, unhappy about the current state of class development. I appreciate very much that you are taking some of your time to answer me.
    Last edited by Fopod; 07-30-2015 at 02:10 PM.

  6. #36
    Plane Walker regall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    459

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ocho View Post

    playtest on friday. 4 pm pacific.
    • WELL
    • I'M NOT
    • COMING TO that
    • warfront PLAYtest
    • COZ I don't want to start an international incident

  7. #37
    Rift Disciple almarean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    124

    Default

    Wow this thread got alot of attention,

    Well first things first:

    "This question is a lot like "When will you stop beating your wife?" There is no good answer, because the question 1) relies on a faulty premise and 2) is phrased in such a way that doesn't have the possibility of a positive answer."

    1 that is debatable
    2. is true. i am provocating in my initial post becouse it seems to be one of the only ways to get response.

    ... anyway i dont wanna discuss but let me just say it is good to hear that u said the following

    "Trion doesn't care about RIFT anymore!

    Yes we do, don't be silly. RIFT is an incredibly important game to us."

    Couse i was doubting that and why u ask. well becouse everything about rift seems to be focussed around money. and less about creating good content. Ofcourse i see this negativly and im sorry if i offend u by that. but when i think back at how rift started out compared to now There is just such a decline (imo)

    im not saying you guys dont work hard etc but i see whats happening ingame. and u can say the shards are healthy and probly they are but u cant deny that there are less and less people logging in. ofcourse i dont have the numbers. But u guys wont release the numbers. why not?

    Ok to finalize i didnt expect this much a response but im glad i got one.
    If i can give u some feedback dont treat the forums like communism(so called moderation) freedom of speech is valuable and when u oppress that people tend to fight against it. hence just a increase of negativity

  8. #38
    Plane Walker regall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    459

    Default

    Shush.

    I'm sulking.

  9.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #39
    Rift Team Ocho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,933

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fopod View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly with your list.

    But...

    I'll redirect you to this one post which was also made into this thread.

    I think it's a good choice considering the current feeling of a lot of mages about Harbinger.

    1. Looks like pretty good stuff to me.
    2. Looks mostly factual considering the video to back up the claims.
    3. The veracity of the data may not be 100% accurate due to the nature of the data required, but the data collected looks pretty objective to me.
    4. Fair enough, starting a new thread on it wasn't very good.
    5. I doubt anyone has control over "getting trolled", especially when the poster is well known amongst the Rift Community. I do agree on the fights with people part.

    There hasn't been a single post from any devs regarding Harbinger situation post 3.3.
    Was that post I linked ignored because the thread was too heated/filled with trolls/unconstructive?


    Edit: Sorry if I may sound hostile, I am just, like a lot of players I know, unhappy about the current state of class development. I appreciate very much that you are taking some of your time to answer me.
    I think the OP there was pretty open about some of the flaws with their testing methodology. But it's a step in the right direction. They went out and gathered data, and did their best to outline the data and its limitations. That's freakin awesome.

    One issue that I would have is that it's a super narrow test, for PvP burst DPS. Not every soul is equal in burst, or frankly in PvP. Some souls are going to be better for specific circumstances. PvP burst is a very narrow criteria to be evaluating souls overall.

  10. #40
    Telaran Yamsfroster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    89

    Default

    .....
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    "When will you stop beating your wife?"
    Soon
    Cleric

  11. #41
    Rift Chaser ChamberDown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    321

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    I think the OP there was pretty open about some of the flaws with their testing methodology. But it's a step in the right direction. They went out and gathered data, and did their best to outline the data and its limitations. That's freakin awesome.

    One issue that I would have is that it's a super narrow test, for PvP burst DPS. Not every soul is equal in burst, or frankly in PvP. Some souls are going to be better for specific circumstances. PvP burst is a very narrow criteria to be evaluating souls overall.
    Ocho, thanks for answering a lot of the community questions. One question I have for you is how can we as a community help you and your team collect that valuable data?

    What kind of data would be useful? Maybe some of the following..

    T1 and T2 DPS footage with stat comparisons

    PvP footage at different gear levels

    Dummy parses at different gear levels

    Maybe some build comparisons for pvp

    Is there anything else that you think would be helpful? I have loads of video from playing reaver and playing with Reaver that I could send to you for comparison if it helped in class balance.

    Thank you again so much for addressing concerns and opening an avenue for communication.
    Are you a player looking for class guides and other Rift content?
    ChamberDown Youtube Channel

    Are you a new/returning player? Check out all the souls in Rift!
    All Callings/Souls in Rift!

  12. #42
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Logical argument and avoiding hyperbole are the best ways to get a point across. And we have had significant discussion based in part on many points players have brought up. We tend to hold off communication until we have at least a very good idea of exactly what the solution is, since communicating it before then can mislead people. And we usually avoid discussing things in threads when people are slinging around hyperbole and bad information.

    So to TL;DR
    • Post good stuff
    • Don't phrase opinions as facts
    • Include objective data whenever possible
    • Don't start new threads, use existing ones
    • Don't get trolled and get into fights with people

    That gives you the best chances of getting a response, or us reading and seriously considering the feedback.
    I take two issues here:

    1) From what you say here, it sounds like when trolls derail otherwise constructive threads, it precludes them from dev involvement. That is terribly unfair. This thread is a perfect example of the impossibility of that sort of policy.

    2) I have written extensive feedback directly to devs specifically to avoid all of the "noise" that was about as objective and substantive as can be, with reasoning to back up all propositions and information on past developments where relevant. I've done this many times in fact, and I've done it on these forums as well. Almost without exception, it was ignored. It is not until a whole community becomes visibly agitated to the point that the devs can't ignore them anymore that communication seems to come.

    This is a bad thing. This is not how it should be. But that has been the trend: when we are courteous and constructive, we get nothing, but when we scream and cry and whine enough, eventually someone will show up. This is not the community's fault; the latter reaction from us is a direct result of the former non-reaction from Trion.

    I understand 1000000% that you don't want to say things that could be construed as promises, or to make commitments before your internal processes have run their course. That is perfectly fine! All the class communities want is simply: "We think this might be an issue as well, and we're reviewing the relevant data. We'll let you know if and when we decide on anything."

    Look, you guys get this. I know you do because this is exactly how you've been responding to the server shutdowns in recent weeks. That was handled very well! You didn't always have something new to give us, but you maintained a community presence. Where there were queries that you did have an answer to, you answered them. We want the same sort of communication on the class development side of things: simple acknowledgments that you're aware of an issue.

    Put simply: it's better to hear things you don't want to hear than to sit and wait in silence, wondering.

  13. #43
    RIFT Guide Writer
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,257

    Default

    My question is this:

    Is it difficult for someone, anyone at all, from the community or system dev team to take maybe an hour out of their week to collect info on what's being worked on for the classes and make a post about it?

    Doesn't even have to be in each class section. Just a general "here's what we're working or focusing on now. No new results, but it has our attention."

    Simple stuff like that would already make people a lot less ragey. Because you see that sig? That's a result of what happens when a people get ignored. I don't know how Red Hawk feels, but how he's acted to us on the forums so far has shown him trying to talk over us instead of to us. His posts, to me, have not been him trying to work with our mage community to make Harb better. Its been him pushing whatever the heck he wants while ignoring what mages have asked of him to do, including the data we have presented him.

    And the thing is, I wouldn't even be ticked off about it if he didn't confirm what most mages already thought: "mages can't have nice things without an asston of conditionals."

    He's the dev that stated he wants Melees to be better in PVP, yet he went and crippled Harb for it. Hyperbole? The truth can't be hyperbole. Harbinger lost a huge chunk of its kill potential because it has no more burst capabilities. Where it, before, could stand to unload 35k -40k damage vs a single target within 5s, it now struggles to do 22k.

    When Harbinger's hardest hitting skill is a GTAE from another soul tree, there's something fundamentally wrong.
    Last edited by evantide; 07-30-2015 at 04:12 PM.
    Meciel - Mage - Defer Death - Greybriar
    12/12 T1, 14/15 T2, 1/9 T3

  14. #44
    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    3,873

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    I take two issues here:

    1) From what you say here, it sounds like when trolls derail otherwise constructive threads, it precludes them from dev involvement. That is terribly unfair. This thread is a perfect example of the impossibility of that sort of policy.

    2) I have written extensive feedback directly to devs specifically to avoid all of the "noise" that was about as objective and substantive as can be, with reasoning to back up all propositions and information on past developments where relevant. I've done this many times in fact, and I've done it on these forums as well. Almost without exception, it was ignored. It is not until a whole community becomes visibly agitated to the point that the devs can't ignore them anymore that communication seems to come.

    This is a bad thing. This is not how it should be. But that has been the trend: when we are courteous and constructive, we get nothing, but when we scream and cry and whine enough, eventually someone will show up. This is not the community's fault; the latter reaction from us is a direct result of the former non-reaction from Trion.

    I understand 1000000% that you don't want to say things that could be construed as promises, or to make commitments before your internal processes have run their course. That is perfectly fine! All the class communities want is simply: "We think this might be an issue as well, and we're reviewing the relevant data. We'll let you know if and when we decide on anything."

    Look, you guys get this. I know you do because this is exactly how you've been responding to the server shutdowns in recent weeks. That was handled very well! You didn't always have something new to give us, but you maintained a community presence. Where there were queries that you did have an answer to, you answered them. We want the same sort of communication on the class development side of things: simple acknowledgments that you're aware of an issue.

    Put simply: it's better to hear things you don't want to hear than to sit and wait in silence, wondering.
    I agree with this and I think the majority of the trolling that goes on derives from a lack of direction. None of the threads that start out constructive remain that way. Everyone has their ideas and many of them are good ideas, but when players are the only ones commenting, the ideas go stale and swallowed up by those nitpicking and making personal attacks. That turns to arguments which halts productivity completely. Others will try to bring it back, but at that point it's futile. That's why new threads are created. I think a Dev prescence may not reduce trolling or arguing, but I think it may keep those good ideas and suggestions on the table. People are more likely to continue a discussion if they know a Dev is watching. You can say you read the threads, and I personally believe that you do, but a large majority need to see that. Look at this thread. It would have died many posts ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse
    We are absolutely a service industry and you're only as good as your last contact with the customer.

  15. #45
    Ascendant Narcise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    2,468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Artewig View Post
    I agree with this and I think the majority of the trolling that goes on derives from a lack of direction. None of the threads that start out constructive remain that way. Everyone has their ideas and many of them are good ideas, but when players are the only ones commenting, the ideas go stale and swallowed up by those nitpicking and making personal attacks. That turns to arguments which halts productivity completely. Others will try to bring it back, but at that point it's futile. That's why new threads are created. I think a Dev prescence may not reduce trolling or arguing, but I think it may keep those good ideas and suggestions on the table. People are more likely to continue a discussion if they know a Dev is watching. You can say you read the threads, and I personally believe that you do, but a large majority need to see that. Look at this thread. It would have died many posts ago.
    This is very true. I've been a mod on some forums in the past. When we (the mods) weren't active for whatever reasons, things got ugly fast - and those forums weren't even gaming-related. One of them was wordpress.org, and while it was a very focused professional forum, when we had some issues with coverage resulting in not many mod posts, well, it wasn't pretty.

    It's one thing to moderate by bludgeon - deleting, locking etc. But true exchange of valuable information happens best when you moderate by conversation.
    Last edited by Narcise; 08-04-2015 at 05:30 AM.
    People who circumscribe their lives to conform to the narrow expectations of others get exactly what they deserve.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts