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  1. #16
    Shadowlander
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    Default if only

    they used a better game engine and optimized it and gave us DX11 and 64bit client support...

  2. #17
    General of Telara saviktkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmAcAholic View Post
    Even though Unglok it's not that hard he is right

    Unglock Mechanic check: 10+
    2nd boss mechanic check: 2

    The 2nd boss is way easier than Ung

    With my guild Unglok is the only boss that we did 3 healers for the battle rez - having this gives us a sure one shot even when people mess up

    With that said with a good tank this fight shouldn't be hard, but there is a learning curve to tanking this boss. Every tank who did unglok has wiped on him at least 3-5 times (unless they have dpsed before), meaning if you bring a new tank in be ready to wipe in order for the tank to learn his mechanics.

    By the way to all you people who say Unglok is easy
    then why did he take the longest to beat out of all ROF bosses??
    It seems that since you put stuff on farm you forget about the past struggles
    Both Drekanoth and Finric took us longer than Ungolok.
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  3. #18
    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esc2heaven View Post
    Whoever will say Ungolok has the right difficulty for casuals as a raidstart must be crazy.
    I must be crazy then.

    Personally I hated that Ungolok was the first boss because then it meant that it would be awhile before I saw other bosses, being in a casual raiding guild. But if you are in a casual guild, you should expect that you won't clear things on your first night. It takes practice. All moving the bosses around would do is delay the learning process. It was frustrating not being able to beat the first boss, but to be honest, it made it more rewarding in the end, knowing how difficult the boss can be. Ungolok is not something that casuals can't handle, it just takes time and practice.
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  4. #19
    Prophet of Telara Kaelani's Avatar
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    I've been raiding since open beta, and in my opinion, Ungolok is tougher than it should be for the first boss in a dungeon.

    There are too many overlapping mechanics involving positioning, which a pickup group could never hope to overcome, and which casuals would struggle with.

    Be close enough to get the cleanse from the add, but be far enough away to stand out of red, but not far enough away to aggro adds. Don't go LoS or out of range of heals when opening doors, or get kicked into a cage by pressure blast. Don't run between cages during ink blast, because that's a one shot, too.

    When you add latency (lag spikes) to the mix, the window for opening doors on the cages is FAR too short. Our guild now has Ungolok on farm, and we STILL wipe from time to time because a player lags out just long enough to miss the click. (or swears they clicked it, but it didn't open).

    I'm not going to argue whether or not these encounters should be nerfed.

    However, I would suggest that it makes no sense for Trion to offer three dungeons of brand new content, and then set the requirements for the first boss in a dungeon so high that 90% of all players in the game have never seen the second boss after four or five months.

    Hammerknell Fortress (to me) was a great example of a well-tuned dungeon. It let people get gear on a couple bosses relatively easily... but by the time you got to Akylios, you'd better have been prepared to spend a lot of time practicing as a group to down it.

  5. #20
    Rift Master EverydayAnomaly's Avatar
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    It’s a tough introduction, no doubt. However, I will say this: last night I got home from work and our guild just decided to go in and try it. We are a PVP guild. 6 or 7 of the raid had NEVER ran this instance or knew anything about it (including myself). Within 40 minutes we had the mechanics worked out pretty well. We didn’t beat the boss (still have some phase two mechanics to work though) but it wasn’t game breaking.

    Moral of the story: You could say that in PVE we are definitely casual and inexperienced. We were not uber-geared, and yet we were still able to get the base mechanics of instance in about 45 minutes. That should give a lot of PVE guilds hope because we are definitely not what you would refer to as hard core PVE folks.

    My question after last night (a little off topic). I ran defiler. I have not played on that spec since 2.7!! From research I have done this morning I have rebuilt the spec for 3.0 (just a couple of tweaks) and it looks like it should be very dps oriented in the fight. Is this correct? I am used to PVP on the spec and it has to be very heal oriented – but if you have a puri and a raid heal in the group – it looks like DPS should be a lot more involved with Defiler. I would like to know your thoughts on this, like I said, I am very new to running dungeons and raids.

    Also, as an aside, do you even need a defiler? There were several times last night were I felt like I did not contribute as much as I should have (which could be the fact that I did not provide enough DPS) or it could just be that defiler links and the few tank saves just didn’t seem to be really needed. I didn’t have to ugly the tank at all, so it felt like a wasted spec for the map. My alternative to this would be a little combo build I have for NMR’s with Puri/Wardent – this would give added shields to the tank (and others, if necessary) and mainly for AOE on the pressure blasts to get everyone topped off. I would like to know you thoughts on the best raid make-ups you all use for this boss. Thanks!

    TLDR: Should Defiler be more DPS focused in a raid? Also, is Defiler even the best spec to fill in one of the 10 slots? I like the idea of having three rezzes for mistakes (Puri, Raid heals, Defiler)
    Last edited by EverydayAnomaly; 03-18-2015 at 08:04 AM.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by esc2heaven View Post
    Thanks for all the tipps you guys give. Seriously this may help some of the casuals out there.
    We cleared RoF some time ago so we have no problem with Ungolok (on our first kills we made AoE specs for maximum dps and we pulled the adds direct after cagephase). I just wanted to show on how many "mechanics" casual guilds struggle on this boss. It is not that one of this "8" is the problem. It is all of them together at the first boss.

    Whoever will say Ungolok has the right difficulty for casuals as a raidstart must be crazy.
    Sure, some of the explains may be helpfull. But in a pug-raid, mostly with casuals, you have one big difficulty we all forget: they mostly aren't used to play together and to trust each other to do the teamplay from the first second.

    And Ungolok, as I was told, is the first boss there to sort the wheat from the chaff... if you struggle there you aren't eligible to get into the new raids...
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  7. #22
    Prophet of Telara Kaelani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverydayAnomaly View Post
    TLDR: Should Defiler be more DPS focused in a raid? Also, is Defiler even the best spec to fill in one of the 10 slots? I like the idea of having three rezzes for mistakes.
    We only started downing Ungolok 3-4 weeks ago.
    I run a Dark Water Defiler for our guild on this boss.

    We found that the links were a benefit, not only on the tank, but on the raid heals and far cage opener, to deal with spike damage. Initially, we also needed the extra DPS to help beat the enrage, although that's getting less important as we get better gear.

    I can provide a meaningful contribution to DPS most of the time, keeping 3 stacks of Dark Water rolling, along with the usual DPS skills of a Defiler.

    When Pressure Blast is imminent, I shield and HoT myself and then do AoE heals to help top off the raid. You need to refresh Deep Water on the boss once during the three pressure waves.

    During the last phase, I generally switch to pure heals, and only toss out a Dark Water once in a while, to keep the DoT stack going. I have Soul Stream as a level 65 mastery, so I can help to save a player or focus DPS the boss (if enrage is getting close).

    Defiler is versatile, and being able to switch between DPS and Heals is a real benefit on this boss, if the rest of the raid doesn't totally out-gear it... and as you said, that extra battle rez is critical for a newer group.
    Last edited by Kaelani; 03-18-2015 at 09:06 AM.

  8. #23
    Prophet of Telara MisterWibble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmAcAholic View Post
    By the way to all you people who say Unglok is easy
    then why did he take the longest to beat out of all ROF bosses??
    Citation and/or statistics needed. ;)

    You really can't have a Bulf-like pinata in every raid.

  9. #24
    Rift Disciple Robokapp's Avatar
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    I can't consider Ungolok hard.

    Finric yes. I can see it. Ungolok...is a fight you can learn.

    If thee magical casuals nobody sees expect a kill in 30 minutes with sub-expert gear and effort, then it will seem really hard.

  10. #25
    Champion Fallse's Avatar
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    Default Funny

    You could go to almost any MMO and look through the forums and see this conversation:

    Most people are not hard core raiders, hard core pvp'ers, or hardcore anything else for that matter. Odd that most game companies gate content both PVE and PVP to the slimmest minority of players. I think it has to do with devs wanting to do "new" interesting, challenging mechanics for their most hard core player base as these are the folks that are most passionate about the game usually.

    They totally miss the boat ... dedicated raiders, dedicated pvp'ers, dedicated anything is in the minority ... so many people play an hour here and there or a few hours here and there no voice com, no real guild to speak of, or laid back guild happy running 5 mans.

    This whole "gating' progress specially in this game where ALL progress is now gated behind raids - an activity MOST people don't want to do ... is just weird.

  11. #26
    Shadowlander Tamashiiken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallse View Post
    You could go to almost any MMO and look through the forums and see this conversation:

    Most people are not hard core raiders, hard core pvp'ers, or hardcore anything else for that matter. Odd that most game companies gate content both PVE and PVP to the slimmest minority of players. I think it has to do with devs wanting to do "new" interesting, challenging mechanics for their most hard core player base as these are the folks that are most passionate about the game usually.

    They totally miss the boat ... dedicated raiders, dedicated pvp'ers, dedicated anything is in the minority ... so many people play an hour here and there or a few hours here and there no voice com, no real guild to speak of, or laid back guild happy running 5 mans.

    This whole "gating' progress specially in this game where ALL progress is now gated behind raids - an activity MOST people don't want to do ... is just weird.
    I think it has to do more with where the money comes from. Most people that do not raid, but have finished levelling would most likely find only a small benefit in becoming a patron. Iirc a patronage will get you additional raid currency, so I assume most people that raid/ hc pvp pay for a patronage, for that extra edge.

    Also, why make a game for someone that is only going to spend a couple of hours a week in it? If I was making a game, I would cater to those that would be spending the most time (and spend the most money).
    Last edited by Tamashiiken; 03-22-2015 at 04:38 PM.

  12. #27
    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    Eh, I think the main difficulty of Ungolok is that his mechanics are fast and plentiful.

    Trion doesn't need to nerf/change the DPS check at all, they just need to make his mechanics take a few seconds longer to channel and have the shark spawn less often through the fight.

    Timing is key for this fight and a lot of pug raids aren't fast.
    Everything after Storm Legion was a mistake. ()

  13. #28
    General of Telara saviktkr's Avatar
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    The mechanics are no faster than T1 sliver mechanics at previous levels. Ink Blast is actually slower than the comparable mechanic on Jorb in Drowned Halls. The cast time of Puncture Heart is comparable to the interrupt of Grand Falconer Zoles, albeit with a fatal consequence. The shark does not have to be killed but can be, similar to Grand Falconer Zoles. One has three seconds from the start of the cast to the damage render of Fatal Currents. This is comparable to various damage circle mechanics from Anraak the Foul in Gilded Prophecy. The only thing that could be considered additional is the opening of the Gump cages. This can be done by two people provided they are quick to move.

    I think one reason that people complain about the speed of mechanics is the server latency that has been observed since the middle of Storm Legion. However this reason is still proportionately insignificant compared to the number of players who are complaining about the mechanics of this fight without actually spending time and energy to master it. For those of us who had to learn and execute on any boss, the fight seems simple because we went through the learning process to build an effective strategy. Those who have not yet killed the same boss look at it as a brick wall as they have given up before successfully building a strategy.
    Last edited by saviktkr; 03-23-2015 at 05:45 AM.
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  14. #29
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by saviktkr View Post
    Both Drekanoth and Finric took us longer than Ungolok.
    I guarantee that you are in the very few guilds.

    To this day Finric < Unglok

    Finric has only one hard mechanic: Jump
    While Unglok has many. DPS check is lower on Unglok but seriously dps nowdays is easy to obtain with the amount of time expansion is out and how gear is available.

  15. #30
    RIFT Guide Writer Deeew's Avatar
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    Ungolok presents the raiders with eyeball checks, not dps checks. If you master/complete the mechanics, you kill the boss and get loot. The other 3 bosses in raid require higher dps checks/hps checks/tank checks. However people have found out how to "brute force" their way past the last 3 bosses, so they are considered "easier", but in terms of progression, Ungolok was the easiest boss out of the 4. After gear was more obtainable, strats were created, kill videos were watched, and the brute force strats became more popular the last 3 bosses seem "easier".

    Ungolok = simple yet unforgiving mechanics, light hps check, low dps check, high personal accountability check (don't stand in red, kill the spawnlings and get cleansed, click a cage, flip a boss, get an interrupt)

    WHO = hps check, dps check, tank check (brute force strat reduces tank check, increases hps check, increases dps check)

    Drek = Slight hps check, medium dps check, medium tank check, don't stand in bad and don't die

    Finric = medium DPS check, Jump Check, light tank check, medium hps check, don't stand in bad, don't fail jump when Flame of Life is on cooldown.


    TLDR: Ungolok is challenging because of individual mechanics which could cause a wipe if failed, however is simple due to low gear requirement, low dps requirement, light hps requirement. Once a raid of 10 people understand the simple, yet demanding mechanics, boss is on perma-farm. The last 3 bosses have checks which require more gear / coordination / skill but have mechanics which are not instant wipes if failed, which gives the illusion of more forgiveness, however it is just an illusion.

    BTW - There is a chronicle which tells you exactly how to kill the boss, allows groups of 2 players to practice, and get a feel for the fight before you even walk into the raid. That is a very valuable resource which I fear is overlooked.
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