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Thread: Raiding and people wanting to raid

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaltai View Post
    Can't commit to a schedule?
    Feel content shouldn't be tuned around raiders?
    Want to play nightmare tide content?

    Solution: Manugo
    I can already see a thread called "Manugo and people wanting to use 2-3 buttons"
    Last edited by BattleBoar; 03-18-2015 at 07:24 AM.

  2. #47
    Plane Walker ArcticGypsy's Avatar
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    Haven't gotten into it yet my own self. Just coming back after months away, so getting a feel for my chars again right now. Hoping to get into a few raids sometime in the near future. Want to do a bit of research before taking that on though. I mean I'm not a noob to playing but I am when it comes to raiding here in Rift, and I don't want to be the reason for a wipe. Any suggestions for a few basic raids that would be good for learning the mechanics ?
    Last edited by ArcticGypsy; 03-18-2015 at 07:44 AM.

  3. #48
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    If you're casual then just do the content when it's nerfed enough for your time and skill constraints. Don't try to ruin the game for others by removing all the challenge because without the challenge there is no point in doing it in the first place.

  4. #49
    Plane Touched EJAvil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorian View Post
    Well said. That is the problem for raiding and why only a few "elite" players do it. Its not that they are elite. Its that they have nothing better to do all day than spend 8 hours on rift gearing up and grinding content and working on their toons.
    Poorly said. This is the problem with sweeping generalizations and why so many "anonymous" posters feel the need to do it. Its not that they are casual. Its that they have nothing better to do all day than spend 8 hours on the forums qqing and asking for nerfs to current content instead of working on their toons.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJAvil View Post
    Poorly said. This is the problem with sweeping generalizations and why so many "anonymous" posters feel the need to do it. Its not that they are casual. Its that they have nothing better to do all day than spend 8 hours on the forums qqing and asking for nerfs to current content instead of working on their toons.
    Nonsense. Nobody in this thread asked for nerfs...

    Your statement is the same as we discuss here: "Be quiet, learn to play, and if you did, you are possibly allowed to play with the big boys!"
    Last edited by Mausea; 03-18-2015 at 08:23 AM.
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by esc2heaven View Post
    This is just not true. The problem is that without the forum and only ingame aspects (premade souls) you will never be good enough for raids. How should people gain knowledge if the raids are not build around casual gamers. Right now you cannot make semifunctional soulcombinations to compete in raids. You haveto stick to the BiS spec and comp otherwise you drag your group down. I give you a pretty good example: and remember that casuals dont play their class to max. (more like 80-90%).

    You have the forum, you can send PMs asking for help, you can wisper ingame asking for help. Theres enough ways to get information you just need to put the effort....



    I don't know how much people raid / spent time on this game neither apo nor any other semi progression guild. I can tell you that most casuals cannot even spent half the time they do.. Apo trying crucia 6 hours progression run.. must be fun where we raid 6 hours (3 raids each 2 hours) a whole week, and this as a semi progress.

    Having all roles, and knowing all roles are two complete different thinks. If you want to raid and dont want to be carried you have to spent very much time to KNOWING every role, and casuals don't have (or don't want to spent) this. So they focus on one or two specs that are mostly needet: RANGE DPS. And mostly not with the BiS role comp but rather with the easiest to play. Casuals don't want any vodoo dance on the keyboard, they want easy played roles like reaver, ranger and pyro so they can focus on the bossmechanics. Having all roles is not elitist (i never said this so please dont put that in my mouth) but it is that what hardcore gamers bring and casuals not. If this is an asset for raids, raids are only made for this part of the community. Every other one struggles here.

    What you are triying to say is that bosses should be tuned around crap specs?
    Every spec on every calling use pretty much the same amount of buttons, you dont have to do voodoo to play any spec in this game.



    The problem is that vast majority of casual players dont want to put the effort but they still want all the rewards. How long could it take you to learn 3-4 specs and watch oriyas videos?2-3 hours? yeah that seems like a huge amount of time...
    Sorry for the crappy quoting...
    Last edited by N3okorrales; 03-18-2015 at 08:24 AM.

  7. #52
    General of Telara saviktkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mausea View Post
    Nonsense. Nobody in this thread asked for nerfs...

    Your statement is the same as we discuss here: "Be quiet, learn to play, and if you did, you are possibly allowed to play with the big boys!"
    Actually it is not. Thorian posts highly inflammatory ad hominem attacks against people with a different play style than his own. The person you quoted simply replaced some of the variables in Thorian's diatribe to turn the ad hominem on Thorian himself. Typically this is done to be sardonic or suggest hypocrisy.
    Last edited by saviktkr; 03-18-2015 at 08:27 AM.
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by N3okorrales View Post
    Sorry for the crappy quoting...
    If you want to be understood, you should really give some effort to quote in the right way so all see, what is quoted and what is your comment. It is really crappy!

    It would take not so much time!
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mausea View Post
    If you want to be understood, you should really give some effort to quote in the right way so all see, what is quoted and what is your comment. It is really crappy!

    It would take not so much time!
    LOL

    Grab your nets boys we have a big one here!!!

  10. #55
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    Default Comparing boss mechanics

    So ...

    How long do you actually have to get out of the red circles from Ungolok? For comparison, how long did you have to get behind the boulder on Kaliban? Or, find other boss mechanics and compare the actual timing. Or, say, Flames of Doom, from Salvorola, which (if I remember correctly) had a cast bar.

    What other first tier first bosses have as many instant death mechanics (Fatal Current, Ink Blast, Heart Puncture)?

    Ungolok seems unnecessarily harsh for an initial boss. I'm in agreement with a previous post in that the boss difficulty progression seems rather out of whack.

    Thx!

    P

  11. #56
    Telaran Kitkuri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandorus View Post
    So ...

    How long do you actually have to get out of the red circles from Ungolok? For comparison, how long did you have to get behind the boulder on Kaliban? Or, find other boss mechanics and compare the actual timing. Or, say, Flames of Doom, from Salvorola, which (if I remember correctly) had a cast bar.

    What other first tier first bosses have as many instant death mechanics (Fatal Current, Ink Blast, Heart Puncture)?

    Ungolok seems unnecessarily harsh for an initial boss. I'm in agreement with a previous post in that the boss difficulty progression seems rather out of whack.

    Thx!

    P
    Talking strictly if failed resulted in a death?

    O.G. Rift first
    First boss GP - If missed clease on green orb = death, if missed healing focus target = death, shield not burned fast enough = tank death, if two people were too close = death(s)

    First boss DH - if tank didn't pivot after a pull in = death by cleave(about it)

    First boss GSB - Tank didn't kite boss during his one shot phase into a shambler who had to be killed = many deaths, if fairy adds we're killed fast and interrupted = death(s), run out of melee mechanic = deaths

    First boss RoS (Choosing Warmaster) - Two people didn't stand far enough from raid = death to bleed, tanks missed a swap = Mass raid wipe, didn't kill whisp = boss went mental and basically started killing people by jumping around like a maniac.

    That's just T1 at Launch - Well GSB was only launch, then RoS then GP then DH was released. Since releash came with no 10 man, GSB is actually a good example, given the mechanics of that day and dps requirements, there isn't much of a slant either which way for difficulty. I could give more examples later if you want more, but i'm just adding this into the conversation cause i'm unsure as to how many people were here since launch discussing in this forum.

    P.S. don't ask me about the old Raid rifts (compared to new ones **Yes new ones are a little redic to the outside eye "comparatively") because there are some people who still don't understand the Water RR -.-....


    Edit* forgot Ungolok question - 3 seconds, he'll turn and then start the cast as the bubbles appear on screen
    Last edited by Kitkuri; 03-18-2015 at 09:32 AM. Reason: Forgot to answer something


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  12. #57
    General of Telara saviktkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandorus View Post
    So ...
    What other first tier first bosses have as many instant death mechanics (Fatal Current, Ink Blast, Heart Puncture)?
    P
    While these are all instant death, it makes more sense to classify them as what they represent from a raid execution standpoint. Fatal Current is a typical "don't stand in red" or Zone-Denial mechanic. Ink Blast is effectively a frontal cleave or typical Tank Facing mechanic, with a minor twist involving the Hydro Jet that follows. Heart Puncture is simply an Interrupt.

    Other levels of raiding have featured similar mechanics. My memory for some of the names is a little foggier than I would like to admit.

    Level 50 T1
    Gilded Prophecy
    Anraak the Foul
    - Spread out (Zone Denial). While not a one shot, it was easily a three shot early on.
    - Eye attack (Focused heals on designated target). We do not have this on Ungolok.
    - Tail Strike (Tank Mechanic). This has the tank positioning requirement of Ink Blast and the one-shot component of Puncture Heart.
    - Tank Swap. This has the tank responsibility requirement of Ink Blast and the one-shot component of Puncture Heart.

    Drowned Halls
    Jorb
    - Summon and flip. This is almost identical to Ink Blast.

    Greenscale's Blight
    Duke Letareus
    - Cleaving while running. This is similar to Ink Blast as it is a tank facing responsibility and a one-shot for any non-tank.
    - Faerie adds galore. This is similar to spawnlings and captive terror.

    River of Souls
    Dark Focus
    - Dark Power. Personal responsibility mechanic. Not present on Ungolok.

    Warmaster Galenir.
    - Stand near the boss and let the outrangers do their jobs. This is a Zone Denial mechanic.
    - DPS the Wisp. This is similar to the Spawnlings.

    Level 60 T1
    Triumph of the Dragon QueenGrand Falconer Zoles
    - Interrupt. Similar to Puncture Heart.
    - Meteor. inverse Zone Denial
    - Add. Similar to Captive Terror
    - Explosion of the Add. Similar to both Fatal Currents and Pressurized Blast.
    - Expanding circles. Similar to Fatal Currents.

    Frozen Tempest
    Gelidra
    - Cleanse or one shot.
    - Tank swap or frozen. This is similar to Ink Blast as this is a tank awareness responsibility.
    - Frozen circles on the ground. This is another Zone Denial mechanic, similar to Fatal Current.
    - Griffons. More adds, somewhat similar to Spawlings.
    - Cyclonic Destruction. Interrupt or Die. Identical to Puncture Heart.

    Endless Eclipse
    Progenitor Saetos
    - Ebon Shield. DPS check for one shot.
    - Meteor circle. Inverse Zone Denial.
    - Entropic Abyss. Zone Denial.
    - Progenitor + Extra within 5%. Ignoring the boss heal, this was catastrophic to raids early in progression.
    - Stand in the purple around Progenitor or die. Inverse Zone Denial.

    In terms of the sheer number of important mechanics on a fight, Ungolok's mechanics are neither more plentiful nor more numerous than other Tier 1 raid bosses. The fact that more are one-shot is irrelevant as mechanics are mechanics. Only one of the three mentioned mechanics requires everyone to exert personal responsibility whereas previous Tier 1 raid bosses often had more mechanics requiring the same.

    Regarding Kaliban from GA, there were three personal responsibility mechanics -- Don't stand in the big red circle, hide behind the rock during charge, hide behind the other rock to LoS the raid.
    Last edited by saviktkr; 03-18-2015 at 09:34 AM.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by saviktkr View Post
    While these are all instant death, it makes more sense to classify them as what they represent from a raid execution standpoint. Fatal Current is a typical "don't stand in red" or Zone-Denial mechanic. Ink Blast is effectively a frontal cleave or typical Tank Facing mechanic, with a minor twist involving the Hydro Jet that follows. Heart Puncture is simply an Interrupt.

    Other levels of raiding have featured similar mechanics. My memory for some of the names is a little foggier than I would like to admit.
    Similar, but, all instant death? With the same timing requirements? And with the same "extra spice" that Ungolok has?

    Fatal Current has no cast bar, and is not at a predictable time. And, is not quite so small to step out of. (Compare with the small circles from Krizzix. Or Salvorola's Flames of Doom.)

    Players know to not stand in front of bosses that cleave. (And some cleaves can be survived.) Not so with Ink Blast, which is fatal to a non-tank, and over which players have no control.

    The theme here is quick reactions or death. The mechanics have no soft failure at all.

    Thx!

    P

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandorus View Post
    The theme here is quick reactions or death. The mechanics have no soft failure at all.
    Soft failure is available, it is called Harmful Currents and is available in the easy mode of the chronicles. If you can do easy mode and then hard mode then the step up required for the actual raid isn't that big.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandorus View Post
    Similar, but, all instant death? With the same timing requirements? And with the same "extra spice" that Ungolok has?

    Fatal Current has no cast bar, and is not at a predictable time. And, is not quite so small to step out of. (Compare with the small circles from Krizzix. Or Salvorola's Flames of Doom.)

    Players know to not stand in front of bosses that cleave. (And some cleaves can be survived.) Not so with Ink Blast, which is fatal to a non-tank, and over which players have no control.

    The theme here is quick reactions or death. The mechanics have no soft failure at all.

    Thx!

    P
    Fatal Current and Kaliban Gaze has same time reqs. Fatal's actually easier to avoid cause everyone can stack for simple movement. Reggie's tank Cleanse had the same time constraint too. Greenscale's Ultra tank nuke had the same duration before the tank dropped dead

    Hell, failing the tank swap on almost any fight will result in raid wiping. Fail Finric and Izkinra tank swap enough and tanks go poof faster than Fatal.
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