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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Faeblight Sparkle - A clear cash grab for raid gear

  1. #61
    Ascendant July13th's Avatar
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    I think the quest should have been a 1 time only quest. This way people who bought extra charges would just get to it earlier than people who chose the normal route. That being said it is still difficult for a non-patron to reach this even once. I know that this is suppose to take a long time and should not be a reward that everyone gets the charges and patron pushes seem like spending money is a requirement. I appreciate the gesture but how this was designed has given a bad taste to many players.

  2. #62
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    So ...

    @Daglar:

    There's no real way to sugarcoat the following. Do a better job, or be prepared to be disappointed on the forums.

    Folks really don't see intent; they see the practical results of what is implemented. Folks are unhappy about plainly visible practical results in regards to the quest.

    Fess up and say you goofed, and fix it.

    Actually, better would have been to talk about the detail of the event, about what is working, and what is not working, and outline a plan of what will (or will not be done). A lot of what was written could have been replaced with a "Oh, yeah, the activity needed to complete the quest is too high. 21x experts plus 21x warfronts plus other activity is very hard to reach even for dedicated players. The quest is too hard to complete. I'll see what can be done about that and have an update in the next couple of days." You can talk about disappointment and intent *after* addressing the heart of the problem.

    @Other Posters

    Reaching for comments about P2W or the online shop seems to miss the mark on this quest. That's a bit hyperbolic, and there is no need for it to discuss the quest. The implementation is (seems to me to be) simply broken. The cost is quite a bit too high. Actually, the cost is worse than it seems, since it punishes folks who started the event with most of their charges used up.

    If the quest is to be repeatable, a better implementation seems to have two sets of daily quests. One set which can be done once/day, which if done on many of the event days will award enough sparkles to complete the quest once. A second set which is repeatable for folks with lots and lots of time (or money) which can be used to complete the quest once per week.

    Mainly, tying the cost to daily experts and warfronts seems to be the main problem, since these are in too short of a supply.

    Thx!

    P

  3. #63
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Seatin's Avatar
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    Thank you for the response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    The /intent/ was to allow people to spend a large amount of time obtaining gear during the holiday that they normally could not obtain and see the reaction to changing where some of the rewards in the game come from / create alternate routes to good rewards for more players.

    The quest is not intended to be "reasonable" - the quest is intended to grant something that many of the users that complete it would not currently be able to obtain - by playing the game the way they want to - be that PvP, running dungeons, or completing a whole lot of zone events.

    I think the option that you did not list that is far more reasonable to me with the /intent/ of the quest is to simply modify it so that less of a bonus is given for completing activities with charges or no bonus is given whatsoever for charges.

    Is this a grindy quest? Yes, it is a grindy quest for an item that the target audience of the quest normally does not have access to. It is 100% intended to take time and effort.

    ~Daglar
    I understand that was the intent and the that it's intended to be grindy.

    However to be concise and to the point what I don't like is that content was launched with rewards top tier gear and the grind to get this gear is significantly easier by paying. Cuts it down from 60-100 hours to 6-10.

    I'm all for large effort = large reward, but in this case content was released where small effort + cash = large reward and to me I perceive what launched as a cash grab. That's what I don't like.

    I look forward to seeing how this develops.
    Last edited by Seatin; 12-11-2014 at 01:15 PM.
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  4. #64
    Ascendant Techie Will's Avatar
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    Removed - Ocho
    You're asking a business to become a charity. That's not going to happen.

    I'm not saying you have to like it, but you do need to look at it from a logical standpoint. They just delivered (presumably) a million dollars or more of development costs alone in Nightmare Tide zones, quests, gear, and everything that comes with it for free. Some people purchased the souls and the $25 pack, that's $55-65 dollars that they haven't had to fork over since pretty much Storm Legion.

    I don't call this quest anything near a cash grab. I do not like the quest, and think it should have been flagged as a one time only quest, but I'm not going to complain about people paying to keep the game I enjoy playing running.
    Last edited by Ocho; 12-11-2014 at 01:21 PM.


  5. #65
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    I would be happy if it was a 1 time only quest, shocked that it is a weekly.

  6. #66
    Rift Disciple Gwenddydd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    You're asking a business to become a charity. That's not going to happen.

    I'm not saying you have to like it, but you do need to look at it from a logical standpoint. They just delivered (presumably) a million dollars or more of development costs alone in Nightmare Tide zones, quests, gear, and everything that comes with it for free. Some people purchased the souls and the $25 pack, that's $55-65 dollars that they haven't had to fork over since pretty much Storm Legion.

    I don't call this quest anything near a cash grab. I do not like the quest, and think it should have been flagged as a one time only quest, but I'm not going to complain about people paying to keep the game I enjoy playing running.
    No, I'm not. Not everything should be free, not everything should be earned 100% in game. There should be cash options. I totally agree with that (and you and I have argued about this a hundred times already and I was very clear about where I stand).

    I'm a patron, I'm in red tier loyalty, I still (even though I'm starting to regret it greatly) spend money on this game.

    There's a trend though - adding content that is an almost impossible, or incredibly frustrating, grind that can be skipped if you throw some cash at them. The recent conversation on open world NMRs, Earrings, PW:W, even holiday quests now? It's a HOLIDAY - just make something FUN for a change.

    Nerfing minions to death, impossible "weekly" quests, holiday mounts *only* in gambling boxes.. its just.. blech. I give up. Daglar thinks its great, so it'll just stay that way. Anyone who speaks out about it is ruining his day apparently.

    The only real way to have one's voice heard around here is to stop giving them money. Fine. I get it.

  7. #67
    Ascendant Techie Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwenddydd View Post
    No, I'm not. Not everything should be free, not everything should be earned 100% in game. There should be cash options. I totally agree with that (and you and I have argued about this a hundred times already and I was very clear about where I stand).

    I'm a patron, I'm in red tier loyalty, I still (even though I'm starting to regret it greatly) spend money on this game.

    There's a trend though - adding content that is an almost impossible, or incredibly frustrating, grind that can be skipped if you throw some cash at them. The recent conversation on open world NMRs, Earrings, PW:W, even holiday quests now? It's a HOLIDAY - just make something FUN for a change.

    Nerfing minions to death, impossible "weekly" quests, holiday mounts *only* in gambling boxes.. its just.. blech. I give up. Daglar thinks its great, so it'll just stay that way. Anyone who speaks out about it is ruining his day apparently.

    The only real way to have one's voice heard around here is to stop giving them money. Fine. I get it.
    This response, compared to your previous, is so much more useful to anyone who has any say around here.

    The only real way to get one's voice heard around here is to drop the generic "____ sucks" and offer constructive feedback (not directing this part at you, Gwenddydd, directing this at the other 90% of the people that use the forum now that just want to complain).


  8. #68
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    People are overestimating time required to attain 500 sparkles
    edit: trimmed post because meh don't care anymore
    Last edited by Artak; 12-11-2014 at 01:09 PM.

  9.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seatin View Post
    Thank you for the response.

    I understand that was the intent and the that it's intended to be grindy.

    However to be concise and to the point what I don't like is that content was launched with rewards top tier gear. The grind to get this gear is significantly easier by paying. Cuts it down from 60-100 hours to 6-10.
    I want to be clear on both points here since you actually make two different ones it appears - those this is text so it may not be what you are saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seatin View Post
    However to be concise and to the point what I don't like is that content was launched with rewards top tier gear.
    On this point, taken alone I'm going to have to simply say, I'm sorry you disagree. From my viewpoint, making some more of the great rewards in the game available to more players encourages everyone and is a benefit to the whole game. That's why we try things out like this with seasonal events If we like it, and the player base as a whole responds well to it, then we continue to move in similar directions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seatin View Post
    The grind to get this gear is significantly easier by paying. Cuts it down from 60-100 hours to 6-10.
    I agree with you on this point completely. This is why upon reading this, I responded, and I've gone through and modified things. Next week you will be awarded 6 with a charge, and 4 without. All of the activities that awarded 1 will now award 4.

    This is much more in line with things being with the intent.

    Some folks are out of the office today so I cannot talk to them (there is actually massive flooding in some parts of the Bay Area right now) - but I'll see what quests they suggest to toss a few more sparkles onto next week.

    ~Daglar

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    Forums are an interesting place, and always have been. You will see a general perception on a forum which does not always equate to the reality. Happy people are far less likely to tell you they are happy - they just go about doing the activity they are happy about.

    Selection bias plays a huge part in what you see on the forums.

    Someone doesn't like Feature X, and has an outlet to let other folks now that? Sure, they will use that outlet. Someone does like Feature X? They just keep playing the game.

    Dealing with a cash shop is, an interesting challenge, especially in a game like RIFT that has done a conversion. You have many different voices that will speak on these forums from their point of view. All points of view are valid to share, but not all viewpoints really add to the conversation.

    The game is a free to play game with a cash shop. We sell the sorts of things we sell. A vast majority of people for example believe it is perfectly fine to sell souls in RIFT like we do - and I feel it is perfectly fine to do so as well. However, nearly every other day there is a new post by a new free user claiming this is completely unfair and pay to win.

    Every new feature we add, to "monetize" the game (and in this case, even features that were not monetization based), is viewed by those already playing the game as a "cash grab" - the reason being I feel is because change is scary. I've said it many times before, we try to make RIFT the best possible game we can, while maintaining a successful business. That successful business allows us to provide a great game to a whole lot of people - paying and not paying - that is how free to play works.

    We try to be as fair and equitable as possible to all our players, while certainly providing benefits for those that actually support the product.

    ~Daglar
    Hrm, I don't often engage in a debate on the general cash shop because I feel its counterintuitive in a way. All I've really said in the past is that I don't like lockboxes because I think they CAN take advantage of people who shouldn't be taken advantage of. There is another reason as well that I'll get into in a second. I do however UNDERSTAND the existance of lockboxes, They are a great moneymaker for you guys. Some other games have them as well,

    However the thing that really bugs me about the lockboxes is the mounts and pets thing. In the past Rift had world events which ostensibly gave us the items you now get from lockboxes, You could swear this isn't true but it clearly is. New mounts? They used to come from world events. Now they come from lockboxes. Whats irksome to me is that I'm paying the same (actually more!) as I payed prior to F2P and am getting far less in terms of cosmeticy stuff (wardrobe, pets, mounts). So this is why alot of the old school players complain about stuff like this. Just to clarify. And its not that I don't realize WHY its that way, but at the same time, its hard not to feel like we are punished in some way. I've always felt that specifically patron weekly boxes should have a much higher chance at dropping promo mounts. At the very least even if for every 4 mounts in a lockbox you sold one for cash on the store, even that would be ok, I don't mind spending money on a mount I really want. I'd spend 25 bucks on a squirrel mount for sure. But I wouldn't spend 250 bucks on boxes to get one and I don't think its fair to strongarm people into that especially patrons.

    I'm sure someone has said this on the forums before, but there you have it, my real reason for the disdain I have for lockboxes. And its absolutely true that people who are happy post far less than people who are unhappy. But with the cash shop I've been unhappy for awhile, I just never said anything because as you yourself have pointed out, its still a far less draconian free to play system then nearly every other MMO out there. That doesn't mean its without problems though.

    Still I hate that you guys dislike reading or are afraid to read the forums, Alot of people DO support you guys, and despite any problems I may have with specific things or lack of specific things (*cough*open world pvp *cough*) I've always been proud to be a Rift player, and think you guys work your ***** off.

    Happy Holidays to you and the rest of the team.
    Last edited by Khelendross; 12-11-2014 at 01:16 PM.
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  11.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandorus View Post
    Fess up and say you goofed, and fix it.
    Pandorus, I fess up, this is goofed, I fixed it.

    Which is pretty much what I posted in my first response but not with the exacts - because I had to go investigate See my response to Seatin above as to what things have been changed to.

    ~Daglar

  12. #72
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Seatin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    On this point, taken alone I'm going to have to simply say, I'm sorry you disagree. From my viewpoint, making some more of the great rewards in the game available to more players encourages everyone and is a benefit to the whole game. That's why we try things out like this with seasonal events If we like it, and the player base as a whole responds well to it, then we continue to move in similar directions.
    Just edited that quote be clearer. Mistakes were made and I missed an "and" off that connecting it to the next sentence so you took what I meant to say out of context.

    It should of been "However to be concise and to the point what I don't like is that content was launched with rewards top tier gear and the grind to get this gear is significantly easier by paying"

    I'm super happy with their being alternate and interesting ways to access the best gear for people who don't raid, however I don't like that idea of dropping cash to significantly speed up these methods of gaining the best gear.
    Last edited by Seatin; 12-11-2014 at 01:37 PM.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post

    On this point, taken alone I'm going to have to simply say, I'm sorry you disagree. From my viewpoint, making some more of the great rewards in the game available to more players encourages everyone and is a benefit to the whole game. That's why we try things out like this with seasonal events If we like it, and the player base as a whole responds well to it, then we continue to move in similar directions.
    I would prefer to be like your choice of a purple lesser essence (from NMR's) rather than loot that can only be obtained via raiding given out for doing a number of different activities that don't involve raiding at all.

    Again, I don't like that it is doable every week, that is a lot of extra raid loot.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    Some days, it does not pay to get out of bed, and read the forums where we are told that everything we do is intended as a cash grab. It is a little disheartening.
    Never mind... you're always free to leave if you don't like it, you know?

    BTT: I'm a super casual, only involved in open world activities, and therefore have absolutely no chance to ever get a piece of raid gear (which I'm absolutely fine with) - so maybe this opportunity was aimed for me. But there's no way I will ever come up with 500 of this quest items.

    So I picked up the quest, and when I completed the first world event I could not help but laugh a little when I received 1/500 of my first raid tier item in a long time When Fae Jul is over I will count the Sparkles in my quest log, and then with another little laugh delete the quest from my log

    Thanks for your effort, but I'm afraid I will miss out on this one ;)

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post

    I agree with you on this point completely. This is why upon reading this, I responded, and I've gone through and modified things. Next week you will be awarded 6 with a charge, and 4 without. All of the activities that awarded 1 will now award 4.

    ~Daglar
    This is a great compromise and meeting in the middle-definitely makes it easier for everyone to complete and doesn't push people to pay lots of money for those 2 extra sparkles. Thanks Daglar, I'm sure many of us appreciate the thought you've put into making this fair for everyone.
    Last edited by Zaphkiel; 12-11-2014 at 02:31 PM.

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