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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Minion Task rewards nerfed into oblivion?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snedhepl View Post
    Yes, artifacts are getting changed as well. This change also revealed a bug in the loot tables where you could receive just an attanium crystal and no artifacts. That too is getting fixed.
    Does this bug also affect the Notoriety returns?

    I sent my 14 notoriety (not minion level) out on a notoriety 8 hour mission. He ([Connor], my cat ) came back with 5 stars. 1 Attainium and some cash were the result; NO notoriety.

    If an 8 hour 5 star notoriety mission doesn't return notoriety (on a decent leveled minion), is that really intended?

    Thurfor

    PS: Had 2 8h ore missions come back - both 6 stars from level 25 minions that had high elemental stats that matched (not gathering, but somewhere in the 18-19 range). In the past, I'd get 15-20 ore from a mission like that. Both returned 2. My original 5 star from yesterday returned 2. This is after patch #10. Did a change really go through? I'm not seeing much of an increase between #9 and #10.
    Last edited by Thurfir; 12-11-2014 at 09:12 AM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nolfster View Post
    When you buy 60 slot bag from store so you can have bigger inventory and later they nerf it to 30 slots, you still have bigger inventory. So that is ok too?

    It is not.

    We spend credits(real life money) on something with the idea and experience how it works.

    Now out of the blue they decide to cripple that.

    Does that mean everything you buy in rift store can be in 1-2 months nerfed and you are out of luck for any refund or anything?

    This absolutely should not be this way, and it is absolutely bad business.
    PERFECTLY stated, Nolfster.

    I have upwards of 100 minions -- most of which have not been received via quests, caches or random drops -- which means I've spent thousands of platinum and a helluva lot of credits purchasing minion cards, minion slots, and even 10 hour adventures when Adventurine stores were slim. There have been days when I've been busy working, but couldn't resist logging in to Rift in the background because doing nothing more than sending minions out on 5/15 minute adventures and delighting in the little rewards they returned was that enjoyable.

    With these epic nerfs (the latest hotfix be damned), those days are effectively gone. As many others have stated, I feel like minion enthusiasts have just been handed a massive bait-and-switch.

  3.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by suhuy0 View Post
    This is very good, but you have destroyed any reason to wish this experience.
    Can I get a full refund for the purchased and brought to a complete uselessness slots and minions?
    Things in MMOs change. If you purchase the Dream Souls, and Oracle receives balance changes, that's part of playing the game. Now if you have something you'd like to see done with minions, that's a better area to focus your feedback.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Things in MMOs change. If you purchase the Dream Souls, and Oracle receives balance changes, that's part of playing the game. Now if you have something you'd like to see done with minions, that's a better area to focus your feedback.
    Truly horrible response. I came back to this game because minions were worthwhile, and I spent real money on them. Now they're completely worthless, and I see that once again, Trion has disappointed me, although this is nothing new. I see my 1 year break from the game wasn't long enough.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Things in MMOs change. If you purchase the Dream Souls, and Oracle receives balance changes, that's part of playing the game. Now if you have something you'd like to see done with minions, that's a better area to focus your feedback.
    No. If im purchase Dream Souls, and everyone purchased souls be nerfed to oblivion - im request total ferund too.
    The reward for 8 hours, six stars mission - ONE white artifact - it does not Ballance. This is the complete destruction of the reasons of this mission. Minions and slots in the current state - it is not something for which I paid real money. I demand a full refund.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Things in MMOs change. If you purchase the Dream Souls, and Oracle receives balance changes, that's part of playing the game. Now if you have something you'd like to see done with minions, that's a better area to focus your feedback.
    Might want to look up PWE's "Nova Pack" rollback event. An item was "miss-priced" and everyone spent money buying tons of them. Just for the company to say "oh, my bad. it was suppose to have an extra zero or two somewhere."

    Well it was such a big deal that they actually did refund some of the players who spent money for that. I know we accept the terms when we originally sign up to play. However that should NOT give you the right to feel that you can screw over people. If someone had stated "We're bringing in a [Minion System] in out New Expansion: Nightmare Tide. However it's still in somewhat of a beta version and "will be edited throughout the year, possibly even editing the loot tables for it.", than yeah... that would have been perfectly understandable since you communicated it to your player-base 1st.

    But to give us a system like that, have everyone enjoy it for weeks and weeks.....and all of a sudden...ninja nerf the hell out of it, after people feel confident enough to spend money to unlock all the slots.

    Kinda goes against "No Tricks, No Traps" ijs.

    Edit: And to the last part in your comment, yeah...there is some good feedback I'd like you to see. How about a bunch of you sit down and just chat wish us, and ask us about these systems and how we feel about certain parts (Communication). All of this could have easily been avoided. And if this is actually in response to the threads about "omg too many dimension items from minions!".....a simple [Refresh] option for minions would have solved that.
    Last edited by Zodis; 12-11-2014 at 10:13 AM.

  7. #97
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    I opened two 8 hour minion adventures after the hotfix this morning. Both 5+ stars. One white artifact w/ crystal and some fraction of mats I was getting before. Now I don't even want to bother with the 10 hour ones. This is not the way to encourage players to buy additional Minion slots, or Fae Yule packages. Now I am sorry I bought what slots I did and won't be purchasing a 5th as I had planned.

    As others have pointed out, you all took the best rated feature of 3.0 and turned it into as mediocre an experience as the rest of NT turned out.

    And as I have said before, you all need to fix crafting, not nerf Minions into oblivion.
    Last edited by Shattered; 12-11-2014 at 10:13 AM.
    RIFT- now Pay 2 Gamble 2 Win
    <Shattered Chain> of Faeblight .::. currently enjoying Guild Wars 2

  8. #98
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    Changed it, since Shattered said much of what I did.
    Last edited by Techie Will; 12-11-2014 at 10:14 AM.


  9. #99
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    I still don't understand why they're worthless. They are WORTH LESS, not WORTHLESS. They still fulfill their role of bringing home items with minimal interference with the game world.

    Also, if you love the Minion system so much, why are you on Rift? Facebook has thousands of games that are exactly like the Minions of Rift.

    As for the Oracle example, it's a bad analogy. A more appropriate one would be if vials from the store were giving lower percentage bonuses, with vials already purchased but not used (ie sitting in the inventory waiting to be used) being nerfed as well.

    Yes, I get the frustration behind this. So why not try to come up with a proper compromise. Players don't like it when they are nerfed, but don't seem too fussed about it when instead of them getting nerfed, everyone else gets buffed. So instead:

    -> Revert all minion changes.
    -> Buff all world drops / nodes to grant 5 times their current output
    -> Increase the cost of all material recipes (and daily quest requirements) 5-fold [ie. one bolt = 10 cloth, 1 leather = 5 hide, etc]

    This should be a nice bandaid fix until the crafting changes in 3.1.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shattered View Post
    I opened two 8 hour minion adventures after the hotfix this morning. Both 5+ stars. One white artifact w/ crystal and some fraction of mats I was getting before. Now I don't even want to bother with the 10 hour ones. This is not the way to encourage players to buy additional Minion slots, or Fae Yule packages. Now I am sorry I bought what slots I did and won't be purchasing a 5th as I had planned.

    As others have pointed out, you all took the best rated feature of 3.0 and turned it into as mediocre an experience as the rest of NT turned out.

    And as I have said before, you all need to fix crafting, not nerf Minions into oblivion.

    did 5 10hr missions for the fae yule event......the most I got was 25 snow flakes, and that was with a 6 star.... seriously a complete waste of time now, if I decide to actually play the game....it will be like I did back pre-3.0, just grind, a wf here and there... maybe a dungeons...other than that, just in /4 talking.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    Also, if you love the Minion system so much, why are you on Rift? Facebook has thousands of games that are exactly like the Minions of Rift.


    I don't think anyone here has ever stated that they play with the minions simply because matching attributes and watching the card flip animations are super fun times. Rift's minion system complements the game in a meaningful way. It can be enjoyed whilst in game at any time, even if one is engaged in other activities. Minions bring back mats that are useful, either for crafting or selling on the AH, in Rift. They bring back notoriety rewards that are useful in Rift. Artifacts that help to complete sets in Rift. That's like saying, "If you love MMOs so much, why are you on Rift? Dozens of other MMOs are out there with very similar game play."

    Come on now.
    Last edited by Julesx; 12-11-2014 at 10:28 AM.

  12.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #102
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    First let me clarify my role in this: I'm the engineer behind the minion system. I do things beyond the minions, and have other things under my watch as well. Posting on the forums is something I do in addition to my work. That being said, I care very much about the minion system and want to do what I can to make the minion system transparent.

    That being said, I'm not a designer. My input is important, valued and generally listened to. This is especially true as I know quite a bit about minion system in great detail. However even if I was a designer, this ultimately is a cooperative effort over here at the Trion offices. And despite the cries to the contrary, we want to make things fun and enjoyable. We want to make things that people can use for free, have fun with, and feel like if they spent money they got the value they wanted.

    With all that out of the way, on what happened here:

    On the rewards; we've had the suspicion that the minion system was giving out too much rewards since about two weeks after launch, but it wasn't something we were overly concerned with. It took some time, but our crafting designer looked into it. There were some talks (I wasn't directly involved, as I said, I'm not a designer) and it was decided to reduce the rewards because with the amount of rewards being given out it devalued those very rewards.

    Ultimately there was a minor miscommunication; One part was how much to reduce, and the other part was the specifics of how to reduce it on the data side. It's not the kind of thing we like, especially given how well minions have been doing both from a technical standpoint and an enjoyment standpoint, but things like this do happen every so often. Immediately after the hotfix several people brought up the issue. Why several people? Because it's not just players who like the minion system. It's very popular here at the office as well and many devs play with the Minions system.

    So we put together a hotfix to adjust the minion rewards back up. It was pretty much the very first thing done in the morning on Wednesday. Don't take this to mean we're done however. We (mainly the crafting designer and I) are still working on the rewards and tuning them. There's a lot of math that goes on behind the scenes as well as trying to figure out hard answers to soft questions (e.g. "About how many nodes should an 8 hour mission be worth?") .

    Long story short:
    There was a miscommunication. It sucks. We put out a fix to get things into a more reasonable state. We're still working on it. You are being heard. We do care.

  13. #103
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    Amazing answer and quite honest, Snedhepl. So I will go straight to the answer of your question, with what is entirely my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snedhepl View Post
    There's a lot of math that goes on behind the scenes as well as trying to figure out hard answers to soft questions (e.g. "About how many nodes should an 8 hour mission be worth?") .
    This isn't again very easy to answer, simply because one node isn't a hard value by itself. It is possible to gather only one material, or up to 4 in some rare cases. So I'll just go ahead and try to present a table of sorts:

    Crafting material adventures
    Stars earned:_1___2___3___4___5___6___notes
    =========================================
    5min missions: 1___1___1___1___2___2___no blue quality items
    15min missions:1___2___2___3___3___4___0 or 1 blue quality item at 5 or 6 stars (ie. Thalasite Crystal)
    8hour missions:5___8__12__15__20__25___1 per 6 items of blue or epic quality (ie. Risin Miriam)
    10hour missions:6__10__14__19__24_30___1 per 6 items of blue or epic quality


    Artifact and dimension items
    Stars earned:_1___2___3___4___5___6___notes
    =========================================
    5min missions: 1___1___1___1___1___2___always white quality
    15min missions:1___1___2___2___2___3___0 or 1 green on 4 and 5 stars, always 1 green on 6 stars
    8hour missions:4___5___7___9__10__12___always 1 green, always 1 blue if 3+ stars, small chance of epic at 6*
    10hour missions:4__6___8__10__12__15___always 1 green, always 1 blue if 3+ stars, small chance of epic at 6*

    I can't talk about Notoriety because at best I have gotten 9 notoriety ^^

  14. #104
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    You allowed to buy additional minions, minion slots and aventurine from shop. That should be never allowed with unfinished system, especially if you were concerned with it.

    Selling store only items sends message it is great system you are happy with, even so much you allow us to spend extra money to enjoy it even more.

    If I make a product that I am not sure about, I am not going to lure people to buy additional features for it because if it turns out my system is bad, they will essentially waste their money.

    Or maybe I would do that if I was dishonest business man. That's what this is, a shady business tactic that you may expect from hustlers on flee market.

    We can all agree that crafting mats had very low value. Why not fix crafting system and introduce ways how to spend them and make them more useful?

    Would you do the same with for example store wardrobe bundles? Make every set bundle lose 70% of its items, so instead of leggins, chest, hat, gloves and boots everyone who ever bought such bundle will log in and lose hat gloves and boots.

    And you avoid talking about refund and just say "MMOs change". Really? Really you say that about store items we buy with cash.

    What a gigantic disappointment this is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snedhepl View Post
    First let me clarify my role in this: I'm the engineer behind the minion system. I do things beyond the minions, and have other things under my watch as well. Posting on the forums is something I do in addition to my work. That being said, I care very much about the minion system and want to do what I can to make the minion system transparent.

    That being said, I'm not a designer. My input is important, valued and generally listened to. This is especially true as I know quite a bit about minion system in great detail. However even if I was a designer, this ultimately is a cooperative effort over here at the Trion offices. And despite the cries to the contrary, we want to make things fun and enjoyable. We want to make things that people can use for free, have fun with, and feel like if they spent money they got the value they wanted.

    With all that out of the way, on what happened here:

    On the rewards; we've had the suspicion that the minion system was giving out too much rewards since about two weeks after launch, but it wasn't something we were overly concerned with. It took some time, but our crafting designer looked into it. There were some talks (I wasn't directly involved, as I said, I'm not a designer) and it was decided to reduce the rewards because with the amount of rewards being given out it devalued those very rewards.

    Ultimately there was a minor miscommunication; One part was how much to reduce, and the other part was the specifics of how to reduce it on the data side. It's not the kind of thing we like, especially given how well minions have been doing both from a technical standpoint and an enjoyment standpoint, but things like this do happen every so often. Immediately after the hotfix several people brought up the issue. Why several people? Because it's not just players who like the minion system. It's very popular here at the office as well and many devs play with the Minions system.

    So we put together a hotfix to adjust the minion rewards back up. It was pretty much the very first thing done in the morning on Wednesday. Don't take this to mean we're done however. We (mainly the crafting designer and I) are still working on the rewards and tuning them. There's a lot of math that goes on behind the scenes as well as trying to figure out hard answers to soft questions (e.g. "About how many nodes should an 8 hour mission be worth?") .

    Long story short:
    There was a miscommunication. It sucks. We put out a fix to get things into a more reasonable state. We're still working on it. You are being heard. We do care.
    Last edited by Nolfster; 12-11-2014 at 11:28 AM.

  15. #105
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    Oh shucks sned, it almost sounds like you are taking about the law of supply and demand. Reducing supply increases value, hrmm.....

    Carrying on with that thought, did I read mention that you are looking at the demand side as well? Truly, this is a marvelous concept.

    For those who are freaking out, get over yourselves. This game is not, and has never meant to be, a static environment. Things change, some times for better or for worse. So you've lost momentary value in minions. The economy will sort itself out and minions will become valuable again. Wow, the way I've described it, minions almost seem like they are emulating oil prices right now
    Thetoxicwaltz@Greybriar

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