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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Minion Task rewards nerfed into oblivion?

  1. #136
    Rift Chaser Julesx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellishly View Post
    I'm sorry, but the way Minions has been handled it really is smacking of a bait and switch cash grab. Trion introduced the system, let it run just long enough to sucker in the maximum number of people to buy slots, and minions, and now nerfs it into oblivion, where it no longer feels like a rewarding past-time.
    Echoes my own sentiments exactly. I'd have never spent thousands of platinum purchasing the rarer minions on the AH had I been privy to the upcoming changes on rewards. I might have unlocked all the adventure slots, for convenience sake, but I'd have never spent credits on minions themselves. And:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellishly View Post
    Okay, so I sent all 4 minions I have on 10 hour missions last night.
    Just logged in and this is the results:
    Minion 1: 5 stars crafting - Thalasite Ore x2, Thalasite Crystal x2, Sarleaf
    Minion 2: 6 stars crafting - Thalasite Ore x4, Thalasite Crystal x2, Sarleaf x5
    Minion 3: 6 stars crafting - Tooled Fabled Leather x3, Capricious Star, Diaphanous Cloth x5
    Minion 4: 6 stars artifact - Attainium Crystal, Ferrous Armband (white)

    On each of these minion adventures I spent currency to send them out. The first two were Adventurine, the second two were Credits. Now can you seriously tell me that what I got as returns were worth 234 credits, and 500 adventurine?nWhere is the thin air on this? I PAID for these adventures (just as I paid for the minion slots, and the minions), and the returns were not even in the ballpark of what I would accept as worth the investment, particularly the artifact one.
    There's no bloody way I'll ever spend credits on hurrying a minion or purchasing a 10 hour adventure again. Epic waste of money with the re-tuned rewards.

    I'm glad this thread has continued to grow (and civility-willing, it will continue to grow), because I think it's crucial that people are aware of what they're getting if they opt to purchase new adventure slots, new minion cards, etc -- particularly where credit-funded spending is concerned. I'm midway through Orange Tier loyalty, so I know a thing or two about grinding for REX and/or outright spending money on this game. But with the minion nerfing, disappointing 3.0 crafting, and overall lackluster feeling many are expressing toward Rift these days (honestly, these forums are rife with discontent), taking a long hiatus sounds increasingly appealing.

  2. #137
    Ascendant Rheven's Avatar
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    Thankfully I have just have the two slots and whatever minions I have gathered by coincidence. I did notice one came back this evening from an eight hour foraging mission. He had five hides and a piece of meat *lol*
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  3.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #138
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    The 15 minute adventures are getting nerfed because they were paying out similarly to long adventures at similar star values. To keep them as they were would require making 8hr adventures drop huge numbers of artifacts beyond what would be reasonable (or make the 8hr adventures terrible in comparison to the 15 minute ones).

    However we are making some additional adjustments. While taking a deep dive into these loot tables we noticed it was possible for someone to get a 5 star result and see say, 5 uncommon or 5 rare artifacts. Then they could get a 6 star result and see nothing but common ones. It was unlikely but possible. To correct that higher star results on artifact adventures (including 15 minute ones) will result in a certain minimum rarity. There's a few other things along these lines that we're doing with the loot table, but details are still being finalized. I'll share them later however.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lufia5 View Post
    So after nerfing the craft adventures now the artefacts 15 min getting nerfed. Why in the world do you only cripple the useful adventures? Cut down the damn dim adventures if you need to bash something. Or reduce the notority adventures because the rewards there are already useless so reducing them even more doesn't hurt.

  4.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #139
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    I do believe you're misrepresenting what I was saying:

    The minion system was not released in a faulty state. It's state upon release was just fine, provided we kept an eye on it. We did. It's impossible to predict the effect of an entirely new system on the economy of an MMO. No can do much more than guess and keep an eye on things. Nor can we predict the popularity of it either. The minion system has turned out to be very, very popular. No one is happier about it than I am. (Except maybe the other folks who contributed to Minions ).

    The mistakes that occurred in the crafting adventures rewards were things that occurred in the recent past (0-2 weeks ago).

    As for why it took 'so long'. Economies are complex, living organisms. It's something that has to be watched over time, as changes to it cause things to get disrupted before they settle back down. This makes quick, repeated iterative changes a bit on the difficult side. If we adjust crafting rewards in minions to output less and the price doesn't change, does that mean we didn't do enough or there's enough surplus that needs to bleed out before prices go up? Only time can provide an answer, and generally a significant amount of time as well.

    So it's not so much that it "wasn't noticed" We had to wait for the activity after the expansion to settle into a routine. Figure out how many people were using the minion system, see how many crafting materials got inserted into the system both from the existing harvesting/gathering system as well as from the minion system. Watch what the output was, check on AH prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yali View Post
    I believe we are talking about two different things here.

    On one hand there is the evolution, things like fine-tuning, adjusting, consolidation etc. it's a fairly slow process that constantly takes place.

    The minion system on the other hand seems to have been released in a faulty state. Snedhepl's comments read like a list of mistakes, communication errors, unchecked loot tables etc. basically an unfinished system that was released before it was done and tested. Now, if things like that get fixed it's not evolution, it's bug fixing. And one has to wonder why it took so long to get noticed that rewards are not "in line with the intended payouts" (paraphrased from patch notes).



    I bought extra slots, too and although I don't want my money back I really do hope they make this worth my credits eventually.

  5. #140
    Telaran
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    Why not take a survey on the community to see things like...

    5-15 minute missions:

    How many artifacts can you find in this time frame?

    How many Mats can you find in this time frame?

    How much Fish can you fish up in this time frame?

    <Excluding dimension items since there is numerous ways to obtain them [ fishing, crafting, purchasing, etc>

    8 hour missions:

    Same Questions as above

    10 Hour missions:

    Same as above


    And see what the Average is for each question, than split the number up by a % that would make sense. Example: [Fictional example mind you] Community's Average for farming Herbs/Ore/Lumber in 15 minutes is 60..... You do not want the payout to be 60 of course, otherwise the market will explode. But you do not want it to be 1-6, or else "This Thread" happens. Do you can give the user 10 mats in total from a 6 star run, or 3 different mats in multiples of 3.

    And so on and so forth, however I would feel for the Trion Team though, because the community out numbers the staff by a landslide. So completing something on this scale would easily take a month or more.

    The other fix, since Minions generally gave everyone a lot of stuff....and from a supply vs demand standpoint on the ingame market, there is a lot of supply and little demand (ontop of all those who still farm a lot which is a huge factor in all of this). So the solution is extremely simple, reroll the minion system back to how it was, BUT introduce a lot more things for crafters to craft. (Using old world mats as well, give them a purpose again!)

    Examples of some:

    Outfitter: more bags, heck you might even be able to get away with making the recipes "credit only" since they will be around the same size as the loyalty ones.

    Apothecary: More dyes! Like chrome, dual-colored dyes that change color depending on how you look at your character! (like those fancy cars with 2 shades or more)

    Weaponsmith: Weapon costumes (fluff, but still if you build it they will come)

    Armorsmith: Old world raid gear (using an extremely high amount of old world mats and dungeon mats, this will soak up a lot of what's out there). Also more costumes since fluff sells

    Runecrafter: ability to combine old world runes into stronger runes at the same level

    Artificer: Earring recipes for all levels starting as low as Lv 7.

    Dreamweaver: ability to breakdown dimension items into useful mats that *may* help other crafts, this may also yield Dream Ribbons as well. Also more Dimension item and key recipes.

    [also add more seals to all crafting profs]

    Fishing/Survival: More feasts, a better fishing pole, more costumes, cosmetic altering meals (like those special food items that temporarily change your character into something.)

    ^ all of these can be used to soak up the overflow in game and help the economy bounce back. And you would not even have to keep twerking the minion system and risk this thread happening every time. [Plus it would give everyone something new to do, like an expansion should do in a positive way]


    just my 2 cents
    Last edited by Zodis; 12-11-2014 at 10:33 PM.

  6. #141
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    If hotfix #10 was supposed to 'fix' the issues, I have just double checked, it doesn't seem to have worked: just now, two long missions, high level and matching minions, 5 stars .... both missions 1 very common white artifact...

    Is this the work up to the 'shuffle' system maybe, where we're supposed to pay credits to 'shuffle' adventures out the way we don't want to do? What would be left to 'want' to do this way? Color me disappointed still...


  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snedhepl View Post
    So it's not so much that it "wasn't noticed" We had to wait for the activity after the expansion to settle into a routine. [...]
    Thanks for your response. I learned from it that I'd better wait in the future for things to settle into a routine before I spend credits on them.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faerugue View Post
    If hotfix #10 was supposed to 'fix' the issues, I have just double checked, it doesn't seem to have worked: just now, two long missions, high level and matching minions, 5 stars .... both missions 1 very common white artifact...
    That's been my experience with 8 hr. 5+ star missions. And this is fixed?
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  9. #144
    Telaran Brigy's Avatar
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    It was a bit of fun on the side but to me the minion system was one of the best additions in 3.0. These nerfs have been ill thought out and I will agree seem like a bait and switch.

    15min crafting should return about 2-8mats depending on stars
    8Hr crafting should return 15-30 (+1-3 bonus mats like risaian minim and attanium) depending on stars
    10Hrs crafting should return 25-50 (+2-5 bonus mats) depending on stars

    Artifacts similar: remove blues from 15min loot table or only for 6star high level (20+) minions. Max 3 artifcats and max 1 green.

    8Hr should return 3 - 8 artifacts. Above 5 star should be high chance of 1 blue but only 1 blue max.

    10Hr should return 5 -10 artifcats. Above 5 star should be high chance of 2 blues, max 2.

    I dont think these rewards are out of order not will affect the economy too heavily.
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    Angry just great

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  11. #146
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    I'm both craft & minion addict. Adjustments were needed, and methink Snedhepl and the team are going at it ok. However, with the adjustments, I have to question even more than before the existence of the 5 min missions. Either they're too good, or they give nothing of value, but when a 15 min harvesting can give 2 sarleaf on 6*, what should a 3* 5 min harvesting mission give?
    Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.

  12. #147
    Prophet of Telara
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    I haven't had more than 1 single sarleaf or 1 single hide or 1 single ore on a 15min harvesting adventure with high stars since the 'fixes'. Given the theoretical minimum you can get back off a successfully completed adventure would be 1 *thing*, which is what I'm getting, then I don't see the point in having Stars for the 5-15min adventures at all.

    Dim rewards don't appear to have been touched in terms of volume. The one I'd been hoping would get somewhat nerfed becsue of the market flood. This should tell you that it#s nto really about the economy or AH performance at all. Crafting is worthless for non-minion related reasons: crafted stuff being worth sod all to vendor and the crafting dailies being a huge loss for solely marks/Onir rep which people will cap out quickly and then never touch again. There isn't much demand for the crafitng mats any more. As for artifacts, Autumn Harvest says Hi.
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  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brigy View Post
    It was a bit of fun on the side but to me the minion system was one of the best additions in 3.0. These nerfs have been ill thought out and I will agree seem like a bait and switch.

    15min crafting should return about 2-8mats depending on stars
    8Hr crafting should return 15-30 (+1-3 bonus mats like risaian minim and attanium) depending on stars
    10Hrs crafting should return 25-50 (+2-5 bonus mats) depending on stars

    Artifacts similar: remove blues from 15min loot table or only for 6star high level (20+) minions. Max 3 artifcats and max 1 green.

    8Hr should return 3 - 8 artifacts. Above 5 star should be high chance of 1 blue but only 1 blue max.

    10Hr should return 5 -10 artifcats. Above 5 star should be high chance of 2 blues, max 2.

    I dont think these rewards are out of order not will affect the economy too heavily.
    I seriously disagree.

    Let's just look at one aspect of your numbers, harvesting. You are saying that they should return 15-30 items for an 8 hour. Multiply that times 5 for a full minion pack. You are now looking at getting 75 to 150 items every 8 hours for basically spending 30 seconds before you log out and go to sleep. Then get another 75 to 150 items when you wake up and go to work. Then get another 75 to 150 when you get home and start playing (or God help you, start sending out 5 minions on 15 minute missions for the next several hours and make even more!). That doesn't even take into account your "+1-3 bonus items ... which is another 15 to 45 items per day.

    So basically you are saying Trion should allow the influx of 225 to 450 items PER PERSON, PER DAY, all for ZERO RISK and 90 seconds of "work"?

    Seriously? And you don't think that will have a negative effect on the harvesting economy for those who actually are running around from node to node trying to collect upwards of 450 items?

    Again, I think you and others are forgetting the whole "Risk vs Reward" aspect here.
    Last edited by Proclus_Lycaeus; 12-12-2014 at 04:11 AM.
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  14. #149
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proclus_Lycaeus View Post
    I seriously disagree.

    Let's just look at one aspect of your numbers, harvesting. You are saying that they should return 15-30 items for an 8 hour. Multiply that times 5 for a full minion pack.
    You are counting 4 extra minion slots.

    That is how Rift f2p works. You pay extra - you get much more then f2p players.

    Patron bonuses/store potions/dungeon charges etc.

    You spend extra money on something, and you get much more than free player.

    Same with minions.

    As patron with NT CE edition my work to farm all items that I want is reduced by like 80% compared to if I was free player without NT CE edition.
    Last edited by Nolfster; 12-12-2014 at 04:19 AM.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nolfster View Post
    You are counting 4 extra minion slots.

    That is how Rift f2p works. You pay extra - you get much more then f2p players.

    Patron bonuses/store potions/dungeon charges etc.

    You spend extra money on something, and you get much more than free player.

    Same with minions.

    As patron with NT CE edition my work to farm all items that I want is reduced by like 80% compared to if I was free player without NT CE edition.
    That's not how this works ... That's not how any of this works.

    You cannot compare Patron (monthly payment) and minionslots (onetime investment) because a sub does not bring you any direct refunds that influent the economy. Patron does also not compete with any other sort of the gameparts. Elsewise Minions with Gathering and Crafting. Minions destroyed the complete right of Gathering and Crafting existing.

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