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Thread: Welcome to the grey area of P2W

  1. #16
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taledra View Post
    1. So he's wrong on the money amount. Big deal. The fact that the slot can be more easily unlocked with your credit card than your game play is part of the problem.
    2.
    a. Because every time someone posts about selling the souls individually, or cheaper, people say that's how we pay for the expansion.
    b. Because the Dream soul pack was released early but was still considered part of the expansion

    If 2a is true, and enough souls sell to pay for the expansion, why do we need to keep paying for the expansion over and over again? How many times do you pay for an expansion with most games? Once? Plus a monthly fee that's not specific to the expansion if it's a sub model? Yeah I'd rather do that than this.

    Ok so it would be pay to win if the slots where only given to those who pay, but anybody can get it. The ingame cost should be high or no one would pay for it.

    As for the soul's there is no way they could cover the whole cost of an expansion and still be profitable but they have given you the choice to buy one or both or none and still play till your little heart is content. That is not pay to win its pay for convenience.

    Also soul packs are completely optional no one in the game could have bought them and we would be in the same place right now in the game.
    I know that there are some of you that believe fully that a guild of millionaires is going to appear on day one and down all the content.

    ~Daglar

  2. #17
    Telaran agumentas's Avatar
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    Default Lost credibility

    The op loses all credibility when he starts saying stuff like "We may not be willing to spend in excess of $100 to bypass grinds". Its 25$ to skip the grind, 25$ there is no grey area. We are not talking about a lot of money here.

    Also why do people keep equating the new souls to the expac they where out long before NT release
    I thought it was clear that this was referring to the ability to drop over $100 and buy expert gear. The entire post, had you read it, was in response to more than just earring slots or PW:W.

    Also the souls are part of the NT release. Yes they were released earlier than the xpac, but if you go to the official NT page that details all that is new to the expansion you will clearly see that Trion considers the new souls to be part of NT.

    http://www.riftgame.com/en/nightmare-tide/

    In my opinion you lose all credibility by not knowing this.
    Last edited by agumentas; 10-26-2014 at 09:08 AM.

  3. #18
    Telaran agumentas's Avatar
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    Nope. Disagree. You're paying for patron benefits, not the expac and most definitely not the souls, PW:W, and earrings. I can count on one hand, with fingers left over, the amount of games that will give you a full expac for free when you pay the sub.
    If you had read the entire post, you would have read that I was not saying patrons should be given souls. I was saying that many of us patrons have already purchased souls, which at their current price is very close to the cost of new expansions for this game, and others historically.

    I am offering constructive ways for Trion to discontinue alienating its player base. I am also letting everyone know that disagreeing with a company does not make a player a whining freeloader who is solely f2p. The fact that everyone blindly agrees and supports Trion seems akin to extremely effective propaganda on their part. It is ok to disagree with people, it is definitely ok to disagree with a company who's only interest in you goes as far as how much money you have in your wallet.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by evantide View Post
    Nope. Disagree. You're paying for patron benefits, not the expac and most definitely not the souls, PW:W, and earrings. I can count on one hand, with fingers left over, the amount of games that will give you a full expac for free when you pay the sub.
    You know, this is such a huge defense for the people who want to be cheap that it certainly calls into question their grasp of basic economics. I mean let's be honest: do you think this game would survive, even as a free-to-play game, without the consistent income generated by paying subscribers like the OP and myself? Do you honestly believe that the inconsistent income generated by REX sales and credits could keep this going? Trion has said it certainly wouldn't.

  5. #20
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    I feel that levelong has become p2w as people without vials and patron have and incredibly slow leveling experience with 1% xp per quest. Experience vials make leveling the speed it should be.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jafjawsaniit View Post
    I feel that levelong has become p2w as people without vials and patron have and incredibly slow leveling experience with 1% xp per quest. Experience vials make leveling the speed it should be.
    Even with vials the leveling was a *****, specifically at 64+.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mauzer80 View Post
    Ok so it would be pay to win if the slots where only given to those who pay, but anybody can get it. The ingame cost should be high or no one would pay for it.

    As for the soul's there is no way they could cover the whole cost of an expansion and still be profitable but they have given you the choice to buy one or both or none and still play till your little heart is content. That is not pay to win its pay for convenience.

    Also soul packs are completely optional no one in the game could have bought them and we would be in the same place right now in the game.
    Daglar said earning the slots in game was not optimal. Ie, cash grab. Not exactly the same as P2W, but a gray area just the same. We've never had to pay to unlock an equipment slot in this game that I know of. I've certainly never had to pay to unlock an equipment slot in any free game. When Aion added the plume slot to their characters, the slot was free. The gear itself dropped in dungeons, off some elites, various other places. And that game was far more P2W than this one, at the time at least. I'm not so sure about now.

    Most of the extra souls were OP at introduction from what I read, and from what I experienced with the dream souls. Its another advantage, though the advantage tends to be nerfed. Depending on whether you're cynical like me (nerfed after they've sold enough) or more generous (nerfed because people are unhappy), the following nerfs could be good or bad.

    When I hear time after time that the company expects to make money off patron and souls, and then they introduce several other cash grabs, hell yes I'm going to regard it with suspicion. And vote with my wallet if I deem appropriate, as is the case here.
    I won the game by leaving it. Have fun with your cash grabbing nightmare.
    Wonder if this could happen to Trion or if it's limited to companies with deeper pockets:
    http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudi...x#.VGS-T_nF-So

  8. #23
    Telaran agumentas's Avatar
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    Default Cash Splurges

    do you think this game would survive, even as a free-to-play game, without the consistent income generated by paying subscribers like the OP and myself? Do you honestly believe that the inconsistent income generated by REX sales and credits could keep this going? Trion has said it certainly wouldn't.
    Not to mention if it did Trion would be under tremendous pressure to keep adding to the store as well as offer more and more P2W items. It is obvious that Rift has begun to traverse down a slippery slope. How long until they loose their footing and all previous promises and assurances are lost as they simply try to hold onto something?

  9. #24
    Telaran KaiserPhoenix's Avatar
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    Op, the game will never be anywhere as good as it was in classic in terms of fun as well as in engagement from the devs.

    The cash shop will be... lets say even more and more "grey" from now on, and you will have the very same people on the forum argue that "it's only p2w if the balls touch" repeat over and over again.

    I personally am just here on the forums for my tragicomedical amusement. Let go and save your energy for something that bears a worthy return in investment.
    Last edited by KaiserPhoenix; 10-26-2014 at 02:43 PM.

  10. #25
    Telaran KaiserPhoenix's Avatar
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    While this video focuses more on the whales instead of the "grey area" its still relevant for many things talked about here.

    Last edited by KaiserPhoenix; 10-26-2014 at 02:54 PM.

  11. #26
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by agumentas View Post
    If you had read the entire post, you would have read that I was not saying patrons should be given souls. I was saying that many of us patrons have already purchased souls, which at their current price is very close to the cost of new expansions for this game, and others historically.

    I am offering constructive ways for Trion to discontinue alienating its player base. I am also letting everyone know that disagreeing with a company does not make a player a whining freeloader who is solely f2p. The fact that everyone blindly agrees and supports Trion seems akin to extremely effective propaganda on their part. It is ok to disagree with people, it is definitely ok to disagree with a company who's only interest in you goes as far as how much money you have in your wallet.
    It's a company. Has to try and be profitable.
    And new souls cost 20€ and they are all but mandatory. I highly doubt that they can pay the new xp with only those.
    But ehi, let me ask you. Do you go in a store telling the owner that you want his service, but you are not willing to pay the price? And when the owner tells you that you can have it for free, but you have to be patient and wait a little longer, do you tell him to go **** himself and that you have the same rights of the people who were willing to pay? Or you would be just grateful that he gives you this FREE option?
    The same applies here.

    And the only fact I see with my own eyes are servers packed with player. So your concerns are not that widespread
    Last edited by psychaos; 10-27-2014 at 01:41 AM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiserPhoenix View Post
    Op, the game will never be anywhere as good as it was in classic in terms of fun as well as in engagement from the devs.

    The cash shop will be... lets say even more and more "grey" from now on, and you will have the very same people on the forum argue that "it's only p2w if the balls touch" repeat over and over again.

    I personally am just here on the forums for my tragicomedical amusement. Let go and save your energy for something that bears a worthy return in investment.
    Sigh... I never hated so much to press the like button on a post... but I'm afraid that you're totally right here :'(

    Personally, I have no problem to pay for a gaming service as MMOs offer, but therefore the game must be worth both my money, and my trust. And in my personal opinion Trion fails miserably time and time again, at least on the second part.

  13. #28
    Telaran agumentas's Avatar
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    Default Where does this happen?

    Do you go in a store telling the owner that you want his service, but you are not willing to pay the price? And when the owner tells you that you can have it for free, but you have to be patient and wait a little longer, do you tell him to go **** himself and that you have the same rights of the people who were willing to pay? Or you would be just grateful that he gives you this FREE option?
    If you can give me an example of this ever happening outside of a video game I will take your comment to heart and just stop expressing my thoughts here on the forums. Since you cannot your question is ludicrous. This in itself is the problem with the f2p model. People do not want cash walls, they do not want impossible grinds. This is the key to why WOW is still p2p. Do not say oh well logistically they do not have to because of their current sub base. That may be true but if people were so fundamentally against p2p then they would have to change or fold, no matter how 'good' the game. Public demand would be so great and the pressure would be enough to push blizz toward it. If nothing the fact that people continue to play WOW is a testament for the desire of players for a "fair" model, which f2p is most assuredly not. Rift is showing us that more and more as time progresses and they slip a little more down the p2w slope.

  14. #29
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    All this slippery slope conspiracy Trion is evil crap is just that crap.

    They said they would never go P2W. They haven't.

    Buying Expert Level Gear isn't winning. Its simply paying money to get ahead of the line.

    The earring slot is woefully unneeded by any player <65. There is no NEED for a player to pay money for this. Water attunement a player can simply NEVER obtain and still raid and get raid gear.

    All this stuff is just Trion trying to make money on gullible people. It will work on some especially those with the money looking for an easier route. Which is really all these options in the store are meant to be easier routes.

    You can cry Leveling and Notoriety vials are P2W cause it lets you level and faction faster.

    Really all of this is simply a matter of perception. Maybe its time to realize that F2P simply isn't for you. This is THE most F2P game out there, cant find a single one that compares.

    Every other F2P I have played I always hit a pay wall. Never hit a pay wall in Rift. This new horrible expansion has been out now what several days now, still no pay wall.

  15. #30
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    All "free to play" games are ultimately P2W.

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