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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Nightmare Tide: Gearing and You

  1. #256
    Telaran Keev's Avatar
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    Anyway the new system is fine...players who wants to do most of the content can enjoy the game more(PVP/PVE). Myrm PvPer will no longer smash Freelance gear people.. Some PvPer are upset cause PvP will now be determined by skill instead of gear.
    As for the Currency Cap..keep it as long as you have multiple ways to earn that expert gear then its fine.
    For P2W argument. As long as the BIS items are not available for credits then its fine.

    Anyway people just hate changes..also i love reading peoples comments who are threatening to quit unless things go on their way. I wish Trion p1ss these people more.
    Last edited by Keev; 10-09-2014 at 04:46 AM.
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  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keev View Post

    Anyway people just hate changes..also i love reading peoples comments who are threatening to quit unless things go on their way. I wish Trion p1ss these people more.
    Players wanting to run off other players? I hope you have a guild - fewer players means horrible LFG waits, especially if you que DPS.

    Plus, fewer people = fewer potential dollars. I know the general idea of some people is that only f2p players take issue with some of this recently introduced/discovered crap, but having read the majority of the threads, that's not really the case. It's not in my case. I take issue with a lot of things planned for 3.0. I was a patron for the majority of my time here, I bought extra stuff, including both soul packs. So people like me can take a hike, we take our wallets with us. Productive, eh?
    I won the game by leaving it. Have fun with your cash grabbing nightmare.
    Wonder if this could happen to Trion or if it's limited to companies with deeper pockets:
    http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudi...x#.VGS-T_nF-So

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keev View Post
    Anyway the new system is fine...players who wants to do most of the content can enjoy the game more(PVP/PVE). Myrm PvPer will no longer smash Freelance gear people.. Some PvPer are upset cause PvP will now be determined by skill instead of gear.
    As for the Currency Cap..keep it as long as you have multiple ways to earn that expert gear then its fine.
    For P2W argument. As long as the BIS items are not available for credits then its fine.

    Anyway people just hate changes..also i love reading peoples comments who are threatening to quit unless things go on their way. I wish Trion p1ss these people more.
    I think i found my true oposite in Rift, Keev! Disagree with everything.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keev View Post
    Anyway the new system is fine...players who wants to do most of the content can enjoy the game more(PVP/PVE). Myrm PvPer will no longer smash Freelance gear people.. Some PvPer are upset cause PvP will now be determined by skill instead of gear.
    As for the Currency Cap..keep it as long as you have multiple ways to earn that expert gear then its fine.
    For P2W argument. As long as the BIS items are not available for credits then its fine.

    Anyway people just hate changes..also i love reading peoples comments who are threatening to quit unless things go on their way. I wish Trion p1ss these people more.
    I am one of the players that will greatly benefit from the gear stat changes as it will allow me to play with and complete far more content altogether, so I am happy about that.

    However, as per original post, assuming I hit the weekly currency caps in whatever means, be it PvP, PvE, any combination of events etc. it would still take me something idiotically rediculous like 52-100 weeks of gameplay to be ready to enter T1 raids, and I know I will not be hitting that cap every week, maybe every 2nd or 3rd week. So I am looking at 1.5 to 3 years to get ready for raiding ?

    That amount of time is kinda stupid and entirely negates the benefits of the PvP stat removal does it not ?

    I also understand that this is somewhat improved since the OP made the original posting on gear costs so this time will be lower, but by how much ? Is the amount of time to get ready for raids reasonable now ? That is the real question.

    O and 1 more thing

    Inb4 get patron or "use credits for p2w" - I started playing this game last June and between soul pack purchases, inventory unlocks, vault unlocks etc. have already spent about $250ish which comes out to about $50+ a month. Exactly and precisely what is Trion's target number for players to spend cash ? Is it $50 / month, $ 100 / month ? $200 / month ?

    Lets face it, this game is a kind of game that you'd usually pick-up at a bargain bin for $9.99 or 14.99 at walmart, it isnt an AAA title. So when its monthly costs exceed brand new AAA title costs its absolutely time to move on.

    So I would like to know the answers to these questions:

    1. What is the current amount of time it takes to get ready for T1 raids assuming hitting the cap every 2nd week ?
    2. How much money per month am I expected to spend as an average player ?
    Last edited by Shouku; 10-09-2014 at 09:49 AM.

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shouku View Post
    That amount of time is kinda stupid and entirely negates the benefits of the PvP stat removal does it not ?

    Inb4 get patron or "use credits for p2w" - I started playing this game last June and between soul pack purchases, inventory unlocks, vault unlocks etc. have already spent about $250ish which comes out to about $50+ a month. Exactly and precisely what is Trion's target number for players to spend cash ? Is it $50 / month, $ 100 / month ? $200 / month ?

    1. What is the current amount of time it takes to get ready for T1 raids assuming hitting the cap every 2nd week ?
    2. How much money per month am I expected to spend as an average player ?
    1) Probably around 10 experts depending upon your luck with RNG
    2) $0

    Gear is gear. You get gear by playing the game. Currencies are used to supplement gear, not the primary means of gaining gear. If expert level gear is needed to start raiding DO EXPERTS TO GET THE GEAR!

  6. #261
    Champion of Telara Arcshayde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keev View Post
    Anyway the new system is fine...players who wants to do most of the content can enjoy the game more(PVP/PVE). Myrm PvPer will no longer smash Freelance gear people.. Some PvPer are upset cause PvP will now be determined by skill instead of gear.
    As for the Currency Cap..keep it as long as you have multiple ways to earn that expert gear then its fine.
    For P2W argument. As long as the BIS items are not available for credits then its fine.

    Anyway people just hate changes..also i love reading peoples comments who are threatening to quit unless things go on their way. I wish Trion p1ss these people more.
    No, what this probably means is ridiculously op'd PvE weapons and trinkets will determine "skill" in pvp. Some of us have seen this before, it wasn't better than the current system, it was far worse.
    Shayde@Seastone

  7. #262
    Soulwalker
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    Trion I understand so all can play both ends. But it is lazy and foolish of you to combine. Some like to pve only and some pvp.Me I enjoyed the grind too do both. Now what I grinded to 90 in pvp is useless. Such nonsense but yes it makes your programing easier on your end LAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead2soon View Post
    I was surprised I had missed something like this so I went back through the dev posts and couldn't find anything about this. Maybe it was a livestream or something where you said it or a really long time ago. Anyways, thanks again for the info.
    I definitely remember a lengthy post back on the PTS forums regarding the removal of essences? boxes? can't remember what exactly.

    seems it has been purged, but I can assure you it wasn't the first time stuff got removed.

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcshayde View Post
    No, what this probably means is ridiculously op'd PvE weapons and trinkets will determine "skill" in pvp. Some of us have seen this before, it wasn't better than the current system, it was far worse.
    otoh at what number it's becomes pointless to support pvp in the game? features get phased out all time if not enough players use them to justify the devtime.

    look at it this way: even with better gear most are pve-players doing pvp for the marks. might just call them cannon fodder...

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardy83 View Post

    Instead of pumping out lots of mounts at various colours at $3-$5, they pump out lots of mounts at $15-$20, or hidden behind RNG gambling.

    Instead of having seasonal events that are fun to participate in and maybe entice a person to drop a few bucks for an outfit, they are a MASSIVE grind and are designed to only pump out the best rewards to the people who drop the money.
    This is evident simply because there have been achievements tied directly to spending credits.

    It's not ToR or LOTRO by any means thankfully, but there is some worry there.
    $20 bucks for mounts has more to do with the average price in general. heck people spend more in wow WITH a sub and NO content for over a year.
    I remember back in the day a discussion about sub prices in another game - when those were still a thing - and a dev/cm/whoever pretty much said "we could take less per month, but the market expects a certain price" (because else the game would look "cheaper" in comparison and ofc not mentioned was when ppl are already willing to spend $15 per month over there, so they assume - in most cases correctly - they can take the same amount)

    events in rift became grindy and RNG long before f2p (it was one of the reasons I quit the first time). not to push shop purchases but to pad out the content as much as possible.

    as for tor, as someone who played both at launch and earlier this year: if you want to raid and play properly you pretty much have to invest in a sub at least for a month, however most stuff from the shop can be sold on the market (auction house), so you can unlock quite a bit - even costumes, raid access etc - without ever spending money on it. pretty much like rex here but in tor every item is priced individually instead of 1 item (has pros/cons which would probably drag this thread offtopic).
    least of all bioware/ea is pretty straightforward about it, there is still complaining ("enjoy walking!") but those are the same ppl who complain about any paywall whatsoever.
    (oh god I just noticed I said sth midly positive about bw/ea. but heck credit where credits due; however after the bf4 blunder ea can f*ck straigt off).
    Last edited by Gray; 10-09-2014 at 11:05 PM.

  11. #266
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    This thread cracks me up. Everyone complaining about Trion wanting to make money just drive me nuts. There are people saying they would never run their business this way. Well does your business give away its product for basically free with spending being optional?

    Of course they have to try and drive you to the store and spend money. Yes there are caps and yes they are letting people buy gear to get ahead. Those are things they want people to spend money on. I sure as hell don't care about fluff game stuff and won't drop a dime on that crap. Will it give a few people willing to drop hundred of dollars on gear an advantage, of course it will. But the fact is if people don't spend money there is no game.

    It's a business. It's not a non-profit charitable organization with a bunch of people willing to donate their time and effort so that you guys can play a video game. They have employees, people that have salaries, they have product and services cost. **** ain't cheap people.

    I have limited time to play so I love the fact that I can buy stuff with in-game currency as play at my leisure and if I decided I need to reach hit a certain cap and need to buy a piece or two of gear the option is there for me. I will not buy every piece of gear, at that point what is the point of playing the game? Don't hate on the systems because there are people out there with disposable incomes and limited time.

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amac2009 View Post
    This thread cracks me up. Everyone complaining about Trion wanting to make money just drive me nuts. There are people saying they would never run their business this way. Well does your business give away its product for basically free with spending being optional?

    Of course they have to try and drive you to the store and spend money. Yes there are caps and yes they are letting people buy gear to get ahead. Those are things they want people to spend money on. I sure as hell don't care about fluff game stuff and won't drop a dime on that crap. Will it give a few people willing to drop hundred of dollars on gear an advantage, of course it will. But the fact is if people don't spend money there is no game.

    It's a business. It's not a non-profit charitable organization with a bunch of people willing to donate their time and effort so that you guys can play a video game. They have employees, people that have salaries, they have product and services cost. **** ain't cheap people.

    I have limited time to play so I love the fact that I can buy stuff with in-game currency as play at my leisure and if I decided I need to reach hit a certain cap and need to buy a piece or two of gear the option is there for me. I will not buy every piece of gear, at that point what is the point of playing the game? Don't hate on the systems because there are people out there with disposable incomes and limited time.
    It's not simply that they are selling stuff in the store. It's not even simply that they are selling effectively BIS gear in the store. It's that they are doing so after having promised since day 1 of the store that they would not do this - and they built up a client base who invested time and money into the game based on that promise. The Pay-to-Bypass-Grind nature of the caps coupled with gear sales is rubbing salt into the wound. The way that Trion has tortured the English language trying to justify their decisions is just gilding the lily.

    I'm not hating on people who have the disposable income to essentially buy their way to full gear. Heck, if I didn't have to explain to my wife why I'm "spending this much on a friggin game", I'd fall into that category. I'm not even hating on Trion for putting that gear in the store. My beef is that they made it so lopsidedly attractive to buy the gear for cash.

    Call it Pay-to-Win, call it Pay-to-Bypass-Grind, heck call it Fred. Whatever the name, Trion is making it far more attractive to pay money to bypass content, while simultaneously asserting that they are not doing so.

    The parrot is dead, despite the shopkeeper's assertions to the contrary...
    What I've Learned:
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    2. Never, never tell a woman she looks good for her age.
    3. And most importantly, never, never, NEVER answer the question "Honey do these jeans make my butt look big?" with " It's not the jeans..."

  13. #268
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    It's not simply that they are selling stuff in the store. It's not even simply that they are selling effectively BIS gear in the store. It's that they are doing so after having promised since day 1 of the store that they would not do this - and they built up a client base who invested time and money into the game based on that promise. The Pay-to-Bypass-Grind nature of the caps coupled with gear sales is rubbing salt into the wound. The way that Trion has tortured the English language trying to justify their decisions is just gilding the lily.

    I'm not hating on people who have the disposable income to essentially buy their way to full gear. Heck, if I didn't have to explain to my wife why I'm "spending this much on a friggin game", I'd fall into that category. I'm not even hating on Trion for putting that gear in the store. My beef is that they made it so lopsidedly attractive to buy the gear for cash.

    Call it Pay-to-Win, call it Pay-to-Bypass-Grind, heck call it Fred. Whatever the name, Trion is making it far more attractive to pay money to bypass content, while simultaneously asserting that they are not doing so.

    The parrot is dead, despite the shopkeeper's assertions to the contrary...
    I can understand that frustration. I can even sympathize with that. I personally don't really care that they are going this route but I can understand people who do. What I don't understand is people who act like this game should just be given to them and that there are not cost involved on Trion's side and their need to make money is evil corporate greed. Maybe they have found out that the boxes of fluff don't support the cost of the operation and they have to have gear.

    From what I understand from what Dalgar said is that once the second tier of gear comes out the store will function similar to how it does now, a tier behind. I realize to start out the expansion it does very much reek of P2W but that should not persist through the whole expansion. I think if they release the second tier and do the same thing then they have some questions to answer but I think it is difficult to manage a budget of a game like this without offering some incentives to drive people to the store.
    Last edited by Amac2009; 10-10-2014 at 09:43 AM.

  14. #269
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    Crap, I've been anti-complaining about the complainers and been disputing their assumptions so much that I forgot to sympathize with them.

    I've made arguments as to why I don't feel like this is a big deal over in a few of these threads. I know we all have opinions on the subject and most of us are putting our "Worst case scenario" out there and stating it as fact.

    I understand that people who love this game are passionate about the issues. It is our game as much as it is the developers game. They made the world, we inhabit it. We want our voices heard, and our concerns felt. Crap, I think I just got religious which isn't too far from the truth.

    I personally have not played the beta. I haven't hard leveled to 65, or ground out rep/gear/currencies. I do know my play style, and I have some experience concerning being behind the curve and ahead of the curve when a major patch/expansion comes out.

    I have read up on what people are reporting from the beta, and I don't see it matching up with the napkin math going on here on the forums. We know by the napkin math that it is going to take a year capping each week to get the store expert gear. That is not in dispute. We also know that it is going to cost about $60 to get the hit gear to go raiding. Also, not in dispute.

    I know this is quickly becoming a wall of text, but Daglar has stated time and time again that the best way to get gear is by playing the game. Not the best way to get currencies is by playing the game, but gear. Five bosses per expert, five pieces of gear dropped, five people in the group. T1 raid world firsts have been done by people in blues and greens. Trust me, it can be done (won't be easy, but plausible).

    I don't know when it was changed, but there was a time you could only queue for a random expert if you had a random expert charge. Once a group of 5 people hit 65 it may be a piece or two of world gear to qualify for experts, if they aren't provided as part of the story line. Once you get into experts its only going to be a dozen or so until you are going to have the gear for the T1 raids. You will be getting the gear by playing the game. Store gear is for those that don't participate in that facet of the game, and don't get the gear that is going to be replaced ASAP.

    I get the pre frustration, I do but I feel like it is trying to bail a sinking boat before its in the water. We don't currently know if we are in a mud puddle or the middle of a lake. Put a little trust in the developers that they want us to enjoy their world as much as we want to play in it.





    Side note: BIS from the NT launch packs, the guilds that already were downing all the T3 content didn't need better gear. The Guilds getting into T3 content, it boosted them a little bit. The 25% nerf across the board did WAY more for those guilds. Take it for what it is, Daglar stated why it was done that way. Based on the community response you can bet he won't make that same decision come 4.0.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentnights View Post
    I get the pre frustration, I do but I feel like it is trying to bail a sinking boat before its in the water. We don't currently know if we are in a mud puddle or the middle of a lake. Put a little trust in the developers that they want us to enjoy their world as much as we want to play in it.
    I'll put more trust in the company when they stop trying so hard to spin negative statements into something acceptable. I can accept damage control and whatnot, but the level of twisting and turning of words and phrases the last few weeks has me dizzy. Alternatively, if they'd fix their marketing or stop lying. Either is fine with me.
    I won the game by leaving it. Have fun with your cash grabbing nightmare.
    Wonder if this could happen to Trion or if it's limited to companies with deeper pockets:
    http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudi...x#.VGS-T_nF-So

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