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Thread: Animations, first impressions and what's needed.

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Animations, first impressions and what's needed.

    Hey, I just wanna start off by saying in no way is this a flame thread, this is simply me giving feedback, as someone who played at launch, didn't care for the game left shortly before my free month elapsed wound up coming back shortly after Hammerknell's launch and played the game for nearly a year before moving on (mostly b/c of time constraints not necessarily because of the state of the game or my dislike for it). I have ALWAYS praised Trion in terms of their customer service and their speed at which they patch/repair issues and what not.

    Anyways regardless of me saying all that I KNOW i'll get hate for saying the following, not only because they'll look at it as a hate thread but also b/c it'll be deemed as "unnecessary" but despite that here I am, with some things that have probably been mentioned a million times, but I just want to put it right down in front of Trion's face and see if it gains any traction/attention because it's something I think hinders this game as a whole in terms of it's maximum potential, but also holds back A LOT of players, from playing and/or sticking around.

    Ok onto the point, as I said i've played this game a healthy chunk of time sporadically, I just recently came back, and like always I'm having fun, enjoy the classes immensely and overall am enjoying the game, however one issue that is a perpetual issue are the character animations. I know I know, who cares right? Lots of people, I can't tell you the amount of people/friends, guild mates etc i have talked to in RIFT and outside of RIFT who cite this is as one of the biggest reasons they don't play.

    MMO's more so than any other genre IMO, NEED to impress on their first impression, there is a huge percentage of the potential MMO playerbase that tries something once, and depending on that initial reaction that will dictate when/if and how they play the game going forward. Unfortunately for RIFT, it's initial impression was lukewarm, not great, not bad either, kind of generic. Exacerbating the problem at launch was the very poor low level experience with the starting zones and so on. But the real killer here was the animations, for one Trion has to decide if they want their characters animating with or without their weapons, b/c regardless of how poor they look, you can't have inconsistency in this, plus picking one option and sticking to it would help development time should they choose to finally devote time to fixing/improving the animations.

    I think it's a pretty simple concept, in an MMO you're constantly staring at your character, so when it does any sort of animation it better look good, or at the very least passable, unfortunately RIFT has only a handful of "passable" animations 1 or 2 good ones, and an overwhelming majority of one that are just plain poor. More importantly they seem REALLY dated, say DAoC-esque animations, which frankly in this day in age is pathetic. I play a Bahmi Cleric right now and his hammer animation is decent, Bahmi's 2 hand animation is also one of the maybe 2 "good" animations in the entire game, the elves animation (the male in particular) are absolute insult to any veteran MMO player. The question is no longer are the animations bad? It's why does it matter? Which we've partly covered above with the simple concept that you're constantly staring at your character, and with that in mind who wants to stare at something ugly..over...and over...and over. Seems self explanatory. But More importantly Why is it holding the game back?

    Once again as i mentioned earlier in the thread, i have heard from Close friends, guild mates across numerous games etc (probably upwards of 100 people) that the animations are SO BAD that they refuse to play the game, and it seems really silly to me that Trion wouldn't devote some time, or at the very least update us that it's on their mind, they'll get to it soon, to try to lure these people back in, I mean I'm watching the game before my very eyes slowly become P2W the very thing they say they AREN"T, why? Probably b/c the revenue wasn't good enough selling pure "fluff" items, so how do we counteract that? Get more players, and how do we get that? fix the things they dislike? Which is what? ANIMATIONS ANIMATIONS ANIMATIONS, at this point I'm simply frustrated and disappointed they haven't become more of a priority for Trion, because if i can put these pieces together, why can't Trion? Considering it's their job to do so.

    No matter where you fall in the debate of F2P vs Subscription model, the one thing F2P has done, is it has changed the landscape somewhat in terms of what i mentioned earlier about first impressions. More people are willing to give games second and possibly 3rd chances b/c "well it's free why not try it again?" there's no more risk of sinking money into something you'll quit shortly thereafter, now you simply uninstall it and move on. Because of that i feel like this whole topic of animations has become even more imperative. By no means am i declaring "Hey fix the animations and watch the flood gates poor in with people" of course not, nothing would do that, but it would start a healthy influx of players, who might actually stick around a long time, as opposed to your general F2P population that has tremendous turnover due to players picking up/dropping the game over and over.

    Anyways this is my 2 cents, thanks for listening.
    Last edited by Pisky; 10-06-2014 at 09:49 AM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Shattered's Avatar
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    There have been numerous threads about the poor and re-used animations in this and the Suggestions forum. I would say a lot of players, including myself, agree with you. There are perhaps some players who don't care at all how silly their characters appear and would agree any efforts towards better/more animations is a waste of time and resources. Having cool, impressive animations is more important than these folks want to believe.

    So, I am with you. Perhaps Trion will come up with some decent animations and sell them in the store. That seems to be their only motivation anymore. Money over a great gaming experience.
    Last edited by Shattered; 10-06-2014 at 10:26 AM.
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  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shattered View Post
    There have been numerous threads about the poor and re-used animations in this and the Suggestions forum. I would say a lot of players, including myself, agree with you. There are perhaps some players who don't care at all how silly their characters appear and would agree any efforts towards better/more animations is a waste of time and resources. Having cool, impressive animations is more important than these folks want to believe.

    So, I am with you. Perhaps Trion will come up with some decent animations and sell them in the store. That seems to be their only motivation anymore. Money over a great gaming experience.
    Yeah I had that thought too about certain players just not caring, funny part is at this point i would accept just good animations, I'm not expecting anything revolutionary or amazing looking, b/c frankly it's relative, and the ones we have now are such garbage that anything decent would be such a huge upgrade.

    Secondly what you said about putting them in the shop, is something i didn't even think about, that's pretty smart and like you said would definitely inspire Trion to do this, as i see them making plenty of money off of it. If they wanna save time btw, just go the normal route and give each class 2 animations (1 caster DPS animation/1 Healing) with the occasional "unique" animation for new abilitities along with 1 2handed and 1 dual wield animation, but as far as changing them based on weapon, that would seem like a lot of wasted development time. That could definitely expedite the creation process by removing that.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    idk. I'm not really sold at the flashy animation concept.

    If you ask me, the animations look just fine. /shrug

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser Turlagh's Avatar
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    You must be playing a male Dwarf...dwarf animations are so bad, they aren't funny anymore......past the first couple minutes.

    That's partly why my main is a female Kelari.

    Oops, I should have read your WHOLE post.

    If you think Bahmi Cleric is bad...try Dwarf Warrior...really bad.
    Last edited by Turlagh; 10-06-2014 at 04:31 PM.

  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turlagh View Post
    You must be playing a male Dwarf...dwarf animations are so bad, they aren't funny anymore......past the first couple minutes.

    That's partly why my main is a female Kelari.

    Oops, I should have read your WHOLE post.

    If you think Bahmi Cleric is bad...try Dwarf Warrior...really bad.
    Depends on weapon, dwarf animations are mixed based on your weapon, I think the female elves actually some of the best animations in the game, however the 2 male elves have the most god awful animations ever. The sad part is me and you are having a conversation about which animations are essentially worse, and which ones once again are "passeable" or decent, that's pathetic.

    Ulthran Said
    idk. I'm not really sold at the flashy animation concept.

    If you ask me, the animations look just fine. /shrug
    Seriously? You've played other MMOs and don't think these are by far the worst you've seen? You either just plain don't care about animations at all which you somewhat implied, which i'll never understand, or you just don't get it lol.
    Last edited by Pisky; 10-08-2014 at 02:15 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisky View Post
    Depends on weapon, dwarf animations are mixed based on your weapon, I think the female elves actually some of the best animations in the game, however the 2 male elves have the most god awful animations ever. The sad part is me and you are having a conversation about which animations are essentially worse, and which ones once again are "passeable" or decent, that's pathetic.



    Seriously? You've played other MMOs and don't think these are by far the worst you've seen? You either just plain don't care about animations at all which you somewhat implied, which i'll never understand, or you just don't get it lol.
    It's true. I don't care. AS LONG as the game is fun underneath those animations. And Rift is plenty o fun! Sensual things don't really grip me...

  8. #8
    Ascendant
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    Ugh, oh yes the male Elf melee animations are absolutely cringe-inducing. I'm trying to place my finger on what specifically bugs me so much with that set... perhaps it's the combination of the stance being so totally off and the weapon swings lacking both any sense of either power or grace in them. They're really bad.

    The human animations are.... okay. I actually rather like the one-weapon-reversed dual wielding stance human females use. Human male melee animations are passable, if very bland. The elf females aren't bad either; at least there's a decent illusion of speed in their melee animation sets.
    Last edited by Kedon; 10-08-2014 at 03:19 PM.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Shattered's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedon View Post
    Ugh, oh yes the male Elf melee animations are absolutely cringe-inducing. I'm trying to place my finger on what specifically bugs me so much with that set... perhaps it's the combination of the stance being so totally off and the weapon swings lacking both any sense of either power or grace in them. They're really bad.

    The human animations are.... okay. I actually rather like the one-weapon-reversed dual wielding stance human females use. Human male melee animations are passable, if very bland. The elf females aren't bad either; at least there's a decent illusion of speed in their melee animation sets.
    Lol @ male Elves. Well, if you have ever tried a male Elf Cleric, you will notice terrible posture- they carry a 2H Mace like they can barely hold it up. Their battle animations are weak and unconvincing, since it's almost all they can do to hold those Maces up. I morphed my male Elf Cleric's 2H Mace to a 2H Sword. Battle animations are still weak, but least he stands up straighter. They are all cursed with a bit of a hunched over posture no matter what.

    I had really expected the Elves to look strong and graceful, but they (the males) carry themselves badly for the most part. The best male Elf animation: fishing. Very graceful.
    RIFT- now Pay 2 Gamble 2 Win
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  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara
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    The bit I hate is 2h weapons with reduced GCD. The animations vs the abilities going off fall out of sync within the first attack and it is absolutely horrible to play beyond that. For example, Shaman with a Hammer. It actually messes up ability timing, not just the feel and flow of the thing. WTB fix that doesn't involve having to ditch my meaty warhammer for some crappy lil mace and skull combo (even if transmogrified to look like a pair of daggers) when I'm cracking skulls.
    I will not delete my characters for an unwated server merge.

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Islesi View Post
    The bit I hate is 2h weapons with reduced GCD. The animations vs the abilities going off fall out of sync within the first attack and it is absolutely horrible to play beyond that. For example, Shaman with a Hammer. It actually messes up ability timing, not just the feel and flow of the thing. WTB fix that doesn't involve having to ditch my meaty warhammer for some crappy lil mace and skull combo (even if transmogrified to look like a pair of daggers) when I'm cracking skulls.
    Meh you should use the Harbinger Blade animations where your weapon sticks to your back and you're swinging something invisible.

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tollwutig View Post
    Meh you should use the Harbinger Blade animations where your weapon sticks to your back and you're swinging something invisible.
    Oh those are hilarious for a while. Also happens with any weapon when you're fighting in the water sometimes, especially if you're at the surface.
    I will not delete my characters for an unwated server merge.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander Soundtrack Siick's Avatar
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    Animations that sync with attacks or dont look like garbage would be nice.

    However at this stage in the game I would like to just walk through tempest bay without lag, or get in a raid without lag, or pretty much do anything without lag.

    Or maybe just get a slightly updated game engine, or get the old AH back, reduce the p2w, add non-rehashed armor models, reduce some of the awfully long grinds, somehow make pvp fun, better rng on bought boxes, fix the crosschat bug, add a color blind option, etc.

    The list would never end, dont have enough time, got things to do today. 8P

  14. #14
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundtrack Siick View Post
    Animations that sync with attacks or dont look like garbage would be nice.

    However at this stage in the game I would like to just walk through tempest bay without lag, or get in a raid without lag, or pretty much do anything without lag.

    Or maybe just get a slightly updated game engine, or get the old AH back, reduce the p2w, add non-rehashed armor models, reduce some of the awfully long grinds, somehow make pvp fun, better rng on bought boxes, fix the crosschat bug, add a color blind option, etc.

    The list would never end, dont have enough time, got things to do today. 8P
    I'm curious, what's the crosschat bug?

  15. #15
    Plane Walker
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    I agree that combat animations could be better. Korean games do it much better. They did it better in early 2000s than most Western MMOs do now. It's not just about flash, it's more about motion looking realistic.Those swords and clubs are heavy, and characters are trying to do maximum damage with them. I can suspend my disbelief and watch the character swing a sword that weighs 2 tons, it's a game after all. But the character should still look like a trained warrior who knows about stance and generating force via motion. If the character looks like a child swinging an empty coca cola bottle, it's not immersive.

    Another issue for me when I started to play -- Mathosia zones just didn't feel immersive. Shallow lore, boring quests, zones and people without personality. It seemed like 90% of Mathosia were in some cult, and most of the other 10% were one dimensional zealots. Quest chains in each zone were generally "We have mysterious bad things going on. Derp. So there's a cult behind them? Go kill cultists. Now go kill the leader. Derp. You saved Telara, thanks." It made all zones feel like the same zone in a different makeup. I liked Gloamwood to a degree, it had more personality. Also, saga quests were cool, and I loved a few random non-chain quests. For example, I was roaming the land and came across a group of zombies closing in on an NPC, they attacked me, I killed them (on 3rd try), the NPC thanked me. Or, I was asked to meet a character and he stole my kidney. Those were interesting random little quests. But most of them were very boring, including story chains.

    Zones and stories became much more interesting at 50. Ember Island was cool. Storm Legion zones and story lines are pretty interesting as well so far. Storm Legion has a better variety of quest mechanics too. But that's 50. I only got to 50 because this game was recommended to me by people I know outside the game, so I wanted to give it a long try. If it was a random game I learned about in some commercial, I would've quit by 30 or so.

    I can't speak for everyone. But the next person who thinks like me would get a much better first impression about the game if (1) Ember Isle's levels were adjusted and it was made into a starting zone; (2) I would go right to Storm Legion zones right after it; (3) carnage quests were removed (except in Instant Adventures); (4) Mathosia zone quests were mostly removed and those zones turned into mostly exploration areas with few quests -- just sagas and the few fun individual quests that they have. Maybe keep Gloamwood storyline and a few others. In general, as presently built, I think a new player should be guided away from Mathosia like it was a plague, because while it offers some fun experiences, overall I think it leaves a bland, boring impression.
    Last edited by Yakmir; 10-09-2014 at 08:38 AM.

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