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Thread: RR, Vendetta PTS testing unfair

  1. #31
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    Didn't test anything for Trion but other developers and can only say: Let test others. It is not for fun, it is frustrating, you are working, not playing. I appreciate the enthusiastism of all the guys and girls in the alpha- and beta-tests.

    If all the people who want to have that early access too would BE really TESTER, it would be very nice and bring a nearly bugfree game. But they aren't. Most are only nosy, want to have a look, some see exploits and don't report them, some only want to have more knowledge than others.

    So it is more effective in the way Trion does. And, people, be nice to the testers... whereelse should we get our early guides from?
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by radiomaryja View Post
    World's 1st is spoiled by patchtimes anyway.
    Oh, you're talking about bosses which die on the first day and don't matter whatsoever. Honestly, no one cares about World-First breaker, Brothers, Eggtenders, Proteus, Greenscale, Toxilua/Irauga/Mallaven, the list goes on. ****, Thrax is almost on this list since in Addiction we killed that on the 2nd day of PB release.

    If you want to bring up patch times, then show me a boss which took a long time to kill and the advantage went to US by a day, since that is the time difference for patching.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin View Post
    Often they're the people who think 'world firsts' matter and so will take every opportunity to get to play pre-release in their quest to obtain this non-existent bragging right.

    In fact, pre-release access to the selected few is one of the main reasons why 'firsts' are utterly not worth any kudos .. but those that think they do will still scream jealousy to anyone who points out 'firsts' are like the King's new clothes.
    You guys are being ridiculous, tbh. We tested Binding of Maelforge (by far the hardest encounter pre-nerf of T3) for maybe an hour before release, while other guilds did at least 10 hours. We got world first over those guilds. Clearly the PTS influence isn't the primary factor.

    Additionally we're only going in once a week for a couple of hours at a time on very buggy content. If you really want to moan about a few hours' worth of advantage, then ok. I bet you anything that the disparity in kill dates is more than a few hours.

    If you want to see an example of abusing the PTS, look back at T2 with guild Legit. Legit spent ALL of their free days on pts practicing many encounters, primarily Inyr'kta (which IS why they world-firsted that one boss out of all the encounters). Addiction world-firsted everything else that mattered, including Planebreaker Abominus. To my knowledge no one is abusing the public testing like Legit did, so at this time I'm not going to point fingers and blame a loss on PTS. I'm not a hypocrite, though. If you catch us spending 20 hours a week on PTS raids like Legit did, be sure to call us out on it.
    Last edited by Ahov; 09-22-2014 at 04:54 AM.

  4. #34
    Sword of Telara Nithydux's Avatar
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    This thread is likely why Trion doesn't normally let people know the name of a dev's real character.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nithydux View Post
    This thread is likely why Trion doesn't normally let people know the name of a dev's real character.

    Maybe it's the OP and they just want to fire some folks up (hmm... it's getting a little dead around here now that folks are tired of complaining about pyros).

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boase View Post
    I thought this was going to be about the one shotting bosses and spamming mass resses.

    There are at least 5 guilds I know of testing 3.0 raid content.


    As stated above: the Devs do know pick individual people to test their content. If you want to test you can get with your guild and PM a dev.
    wtb 19 other crayons.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    If you want to see an example of abusing the PTS, look back at T2 with guild Legit. Legit spent ALL of their free days on pts practicing many encounters, primarily Inyr'kta (which IS why they world-firsted that one boss out of all the encounters).
    Firstly, I was in Exploit/Legit at that time and I can confirm this is utter rubbish. Yes they spent time testing on PTS but a big chunk of this time was spent helping rework broken mechanics. It also wasn't 'ALL their free days' IIRC it was maybe 2-3 times a week.

    Secondly, regardless of how little time you spent on Maelforge pre-release you can't deny that Vendetta/Trinity/Addiction had/have devs available to PM whenever they like to talk though mechanics. True world firsts should be measured by number of days between first seeing a boss to killing it without any outside interference. Sadly that will never happen. The people to kill fights first get helped by the devs, they release a video and everyone subsequently copies those tactics.


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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sedvick View Post
    We don't claim this. We just captured all* the Pokemon 1st and take this song way too seriously.

    *all but Blastoise
    Hahaha nice one

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  9. #39
    General of Telara WockyCC's Avatar
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    Default not really any way to say this without offending "someone"

    I hate to make this comparison, but I need to to illustrate a point and I mean no disrespect, but I'm trying to put things in perspective:

    Even four years of not playing WoW, on and off, I can still rattle off or recognize who are in the top 50 or so guilds in EU and US for Warcraft and who was at one time or the other their brightest stars, even recognize "celebrities" past and a few present.

    I don't even know who the top guilds in Rift are. I don't even know their main tanks, their GM's or anything about them. I remember some debacle / scandal with "no quarter" at one stage. Can't remember the other EU guild. Current guilds? No clue. For as long as I remember, it was like one or two guilds in the limelight and that's how it's always been.

    The raiding community in Rift is so darn small. What options do the dev's actually have to test?

    They are forced to have to draw on a pool of a very good bunch of players who play and work together as a team to actually check the content. Obviously, these guilds will have an advantage, but what choice do the dev's have?

    Heck, even I tested content in the past with the Rift dev's on Ventrilo and I'm hardly better than "above average".

    I'm on good terms and corresponded with "Bibi" from MMO-champ (he's passed me a few keys) and a even a member of the Curse network and even I don't know the "inner circle" of testers on WoW. The pools is just that big - you really need to be the best to get in.

    The race for first in Rift? It's irrelevant. No disrespect, but who actually cares about a World First in Rift? Who are the competition? I would say the accomplishment of doing it - when you do it - should be enough?

    I mean that if you manage to down the boss, with no nerfs - you should be proud of yourself for doing it - not being so worried about a so-called "world first"

    The community is just so small. I mean, really - are there even 1,000 serious raiders? even 500?

    I recall - as a raid leader - in WoW being happy to be in the top 500 (it may have even been 1,000) guilds at one stage (and it was only briefly as other guilds overtook us).

    Are there even leader-boards to keep track of Rift Raiding progress?

    How can people bother to put importance on a "World First" anything in Rift when the dev's and players generally work so closely together with a rather limited raid community?

    I would quite frankly be more impressed with the guys who maxed out their P/A points and the guy who completed EVERY artifact collection, or the person's who make such beautiful dimensions.

    Just be happy the content is tested by people willing to put their time in together as a team.

    Also - be happy you actually see dev's on servers. You don't see that in other MMO's.
    Last edited by WockyCC; 09-22-2014 at 07:41 AM.

  10. #40
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    I don't think it's fair to say that those who achieve world first in RIFT shouldn't be as happy as a group of people who get a world first in WoW simply because the raiding pool is smaller.

    I think people should play the game to have fun, and it is foolish to suggest that any group of people shouldn't have as much fun because of x variable.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by WockyCC View Post
    ~Big Snip~
    All of this. Honestly the only big raiding guilds I know about are the ones I see turning up on Riftgrate when they kill a boss. Vendetta, Crayons... that's about it. Are there really more many more? And who do we expect to get the first boss kill anywhere other than these guys? They have a pretty good track record already.

    With or without PTS practice, I wouldn't be surprised if any of them got a world first regardless.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nithydux View Post
    All of this. Honestly the only big raiding guilds I know about are the ones I see turning up on Riftgrate when they kill a boss. Vendetta, Crayons... that's about it. Are there really more many more? And who do we expect to get the first boss kill anywhere other than these guys? They have a pretty good track record already.

    With or without PTS practice, I wouldn't be surprised if any of them got a world first regardless.
    I think crayons is the only guild that's 4/4 BoB that did not invest PTS practice time. Vendetta will always get pts practice, I assume trinity and apoth would to.
    Last edited by Cinderburst; 09-22-2014 at 08:15 AM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkoss View Post
    Firstly, I was in Exploit/Legit at that time and I can confirm this is utter rubbish. Yes they spent time testing on PTS but a big chunk of this time was spent helping rework broken mechanics.

    Secondly, regardless of how little time you spent on Maelforge pre-release you can't deny that Vendetta/Trinity/Addiction had/have devs available to PM whenever they like to talk though mechanics. True world firsts should be measured by number of days between first seeing a boss to killing it without any outside interference. Sadly that will never happen. The people to kill fights first get helped by the devs, they release a video and everyone subsequently copies those tactics.
    1) You basically said it yourself: a lot of the time on PTS is dealing with completely broken mechanics and that is not good "practice." So how our PTS testing is "unfair," especially given that we're barely spending time on it (a couple of hours a week), is confusing to me. It's been re-iterated and made extremely clear that any guild willing to get 20 players together can help test the new content.

    2) Talking with devs is important in many ways, especially to confirm what is a bug, an exploit etc. For example, Legit abused No Permission to Die on Warden Thrax. If they had simply asked Larry on Skype if this was allowed, he would have said no. Additionally I find your stance on dev communication very strange considering Legit was constantly in contact with the devs. Whitelady even played League of Legends with Colin.
    Last edited by Ahov; 09-22-2014 at 08:28 AM.

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    edit: ignore
    Last edited by Ahov; 09-22-2014 at 08:23 AM.

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