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Thread: AH undercuts by default...why?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Irishae's Avatar
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    Default AH undercuts by default...why?

    It is very annoying that AH is set to automatically undercut every new listing by 1 silver. There are bots and real players that do this already, but I was not expecting to compete with the auction system itself on top of that. What is the reasoning behind this unnecessary "feature?"

    Sorry if this was previously addressed in the mountain of threads dedicated to the AH already, I've perused through most of them. Maybe I missed something about fixing this.

  2. #2
    Ascendant xanduin246's Avatar
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    It's been brought up before, but never really addressed.

    It's a big reason I won't use the AH, it takes way too long to manually undercut by an appropriate amount. I used to use BananAH to undercut by 2%, but since they changed the the duration of auctions BananAH posts for 1 week, and the fee for that is too large for me.

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    Ascendant Techie Will's Avatar
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    They're adding in the feature to use last used price again, later this month.

    As I'm curious, is the stance against a one silver undercut because people think it's not "nice"? Is this about online manners or something? Because no matter how moral you are to not undercut people by a silver, there is always someone who will.


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    Ascendant xanduin246's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    They're adding in the feature to use last used price again, later this month.

    As I'm curious, is the stance against a one silver undercut because people think it's not "nice"? Is this about online manners or something? Because no matter how moral you are to not undercut people by a silver, there is always someone who will.
    For some players it is considered rude. For me it's like saying, "I want mine to sell for the most amount possible, but I don't want yours to sell before mine, so I'm going to undercut as minimally as possible."

    It's similar to bidding $1 over someone else in The Price is Right.

    EDIT: And the people who refuse to do this often will not buy auctions that undercut by 1s. If I see a 9p 99g 99s auction, I'll keep scrolling until I find the 10p auction. Personal preference is all, I don't judge other's character for doing it (the above quote is self-loathing, not how I see others), I just won't support it.
    Last edited by xanduin246; 08-10-2014 at 10:21 AM.

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    Rift Disciple echoesofeternity's Avatar
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    To make as many people as possible lose their "deposit" (fee), why else?

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    Ascendant Shattered's Avatar
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    Count me as one who will not buy auctions that undercut by 1s. I consider it a sleazy tactic. I certainly wouldn't want to post such auctions.
    Last edited by Shattered; 08-10-2014 at 10:33 AM.
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  7. #7
    Rift Disciple Irishae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    They're adding in the feature to use last used price again, later this month.

    As I'm curious, is the stance against a one silver undercut because people think it's not "nice"? Is this about online manners or something? Because no matter how moral you are to not undercut people by a silver, there is always someone who will.
    I for one have no "moral" stance against undercutting or buying from players who undercut by 1 silver (like some people do). It is indeed a fact that every minute there is a player willing to sell something for less than someone else. I do it everyday.

    However, I think it's odd that the game's system would do it automatically and annoying to see a flood of listings (even as a buyer) only 1 silver apart from each other. As a seller, for the system to instantly negate your auction is a bit irksome as well. I was also just curious as to any intended purpose behind it.
    Last edited by Irishae; 08-10-2014 at 10:42 AM.

  8. #8
    Plane Touched
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    I can't understand why undercutting by 1 silver is a "bad" thing. I acknowledge there are people that find it rude, but can't really understand it.

    Undercutting by 1 silver is the optimal way to undercut: it ensures maximum visibility and minimum profit reduction. Larger undercutting values don't have any advantage: they ensure visibility, but with a larger profit reduction too. Furthermore, they are as aggravating to the person you're undercutting (their auctions aren't at the top anymore), and even more to the product (as the undercutting war continues, the profit will be reduced for everyone by a larger value).

    Note I'm personally against undercutting wars as they devalue the product in the long term, hurting every seller except those that are willing to take any profit as quick as possible. Ideally, nobody would undercut, but wait for their turn to sell their goods at a price that produces a larger profit and doesn't devalue the product. However, that's unreallistic, as there will always be people willing to undercut, so the best case is that they do by the minimum possible amount.

    Do you find it rude when people choose the optimal alternative in other aspects of the game, like PvP? Is it rude when they use the best available spec instead of a worse one that would be more "fair" to their opponents?
    Last edited by Baanano; 08-10-2014 at 11:06 AM. Reason: typo

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    Ascendant Wonk's Avatar
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    Undercutting by a silver or two? I always buy the one who did Not pull this move, rewarding this behavior only encourages it more... I can see undercutting, it's business, but when you jump in at a silver less, there is no reason other than being a wise guy, it's not like you are offering a bargain over the others, you just want to be first... well, be first to lose a sale when I shop.

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    Shadowlander Redna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echoesofeternity View Post
    To make as many people as possible lose their "deposit" (fee), why else?
    An how it can produce such outcome?

    Personally i just buy cheapest lot with buyout. Also lol at "trade ethics".

  11. #11
    Ascendant xanduin246's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baanano View Post
    I can't understand why undercutting by 1 silver is a "bad" thing. I acknowledge there are people that find it rude, but can't really understand it.

    Undercutting by 1 silver is the optimal way to undercut: it ensures maximum visibility and minimum profit reduction. Larger undercutting values don't have any advantage: they ensure visibility, but with a larger profit reduction too. Furthermore, they are as aggravating to the person you're undercutting (their auctions aren't at the top anymore), and even more to the product (as the undercutting war continues, the profit will be reduced for everyone by a larger value).

    Note I'm personally against undercutting wars as they devalue the product in the long term, hurting every seller except those that are willing to take any profit as quick as possible. Ideally, nobody would undercut, but wait for their turn to sell their goods at a price that produces a larger profit and doesn't devalue the product. However, that's unreallistic, as there will always be people willing to undercut, so the best case is that they do by the minimum possible amount.

    Do you find it rude when people choose the optimal alternative in other aspects of the game, like PvP? Is it rude when they use the best available spec instead of a worse one that would be more "fair" to their opponents?
    People find it rude because they just find it rude. There doesn't really have to be reason for it.

    Some people find it rude when you say, "Hey" instead of, "Hello." Why? Well, because it's rude to them. It's improper etiquette to them, and for some of us it's improper etiquette to undercut by just 1s. It doesn't need to be turned into some big thing where we have to justify it. If you want to undercut by 1s go ahead. I prefer not to.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Irishae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baanano View Post
    Do you find it rude when people choose the optimal alternative in other aspects of the game, like PvP? Is it rude when they use the best available spec instead of a worse one that would be more "fair" to their opponents?
    Nope, but I also don't feel that way in regards to the AH either. I can find something annoying, like your example, without finding it morally questionable or being personally offended by it. There are players who do this for all the reasons you listed. But I find it strange for the AH system itself to undercut every listing by 1 silver thereby negating everyone's auctions...it seems weird and insta-punitive. Who is it helping exactly? Is it to balance something? Just interested.

  13. #13
    Champion of Telara
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    Manually adjusting the price takes no longer then it did with the last AH, I'll usually undercut by more. And the Buy Order function isn't going to care about your ethics, whichever is lowest will gt scooped up first.
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  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Vhivi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baanano View Post
    Undercutting by 1 silver is the optimal way to undercut: it ensures maximum visibility and minimum profit reduction.
    On the rare occasion that I do look for items on the auction house, The only reason I'll buy something that is listed down to 1 silver difference is when the item only costs a few silver anyway and that 1 silver is actually in the 5% range.

    You think it's optimal? Whatever. I'll pass up yours and buy the more expensive (by a measly silver) every time. You end up not selling as much. Kind of hard to get optimal out of no sales

    The point of undercutting is to give the customer a deal so you sell more. A 1 silver undercut is just attempting to game the game so to speak. No deal, then no sale.
    Last edited by Vhivi; 08-10-2014 at 02:59 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irishae View Post
    What is the reasoning behind this unnecessary "feature?"
    So sellers can relist their item and thus get hit with the AH fees again.

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