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Thread: Rules To Live By

  1. #1
    General of Telara Mazikeen's Avatar
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    Post Rules To Live By

    I just read a response to a thread that amazed me. The person was either being sarcastic, or just... ugh. So, here is my personal set of rules. I think old-school Everquest 1 players will recognize many of them.

    Tank -
    * Your job is to hold aggro. You shall do this to the best of your ability, within reason.
    * You are not expected to retrieve aggro from players who are being blatantly stupid. Accidents happen, and you will retrieve aggro when possible if one occurs, but if a player is repeatedly drawing aggro out of stupidity (breaking CC, going full-bore on DPS, etc) you can and by all rights should let them die.
    * The healer is the most important group/raid member. You will value their life above all others.
    * You shall obtain the best gear possible to fulfill your role, within reason.
    * You are expected, in general, to lead the group/raid. Most will look up to you. Learn all you can about a given area or dungeon, within reason.
    * [Edit 1] As tank, you will position monsters and bosses appropriately. This generally involves positioning the monsters/boss away from the party and facing a wall.

    Healer -
    * Your job is to heal. You shall do this to the best of your ability, within reason.
    * You are not expected to heal players who are being blatantly stupid. Accidents happen, and you will heal when possible if one occurs, but if a player is repeatedly drawing aggro out of stupidity (breaking CC, going full-bore on DPS, etc) you can and by all rights should let them die.
    * The tank is the most important group/raid member. You will value their life above all others.
    * You shall obtain the best gear possible to fulfill your role, within reason.
    * You will know what heals have what effects and learn how to utilize them.

    DPS -
    * Your job is to do damage. You shall do this to the best of your ability, within reason.
    * You shall obtain the best gear possible to fulfill your role, within reason.
    * You will, when in a group of people who's abilities (skill/gear levels) are unknown to you, throttle your DPS appropriately.
    * You will not break crowd control, ever. This is the tanks job.
    * [Edit 1] You shall, unless the encounter requires otherwise, remain at the appropriate range (for ranged classes) or behind the monsters/boss.
    * [Edit 2] You shall, unless the encounter requires otherwise, assist the group/raid Main Assist. This is not always the tank, and rarely a healer. If you are unsure who the MA is, please ask.

    All Players -
    * You shall take the time to understand the basics of grouping. This includes proper group etiquette, the general concept of aggro control, when you should/should not pull, what crowd control is and why it exists, your personal role in a group and how to perform within acceptable boundaries and what is considered taboo (breaking CC, ninja looting, etc).
    * You will learn the basic concepts of pulling (including Line of Sight and Ranged pulls) and healing (HoTs versus Splash/Instant heals and what each does).
    * You will be partially self-reliant. If you must retreat from a fight to care for your wounds or control a monster attacking you, if you are able to do so, you will.
    * You will not roll on gear unless it is viable for your Calling.
    * If you are leading a group/raid, you will state the loot rules before beginning, and if discussion is required, have a civil discussion about your choice.
    * You will, at all times, be civil. In any MMO there are multiple levels of maturity amongst the population, but civility is a simple concept and there is no reason to be anything but.
    * You may, if you wish, offer advice to someone. If you offer said advice, proper etiquette dictates you ask if the recipient wants it beforehand, and you shall have some foundation from which to draw this advice (past experience, etc).
    * If someone offers you advice in a civil manner, whether asked for or not, you will accept it either graciously, or silently. Whether you choose to follow through on utilizing it is your option.
    * [Edit 3] You will not stand in 'odd ground' such as areas with fire, poison clouds, etc unless an encounter calls for it.
    * [Edit 4] You will be aware of your surroundings. Healers will pay attention to the health of all members and heal appropriately, within reason. Tanks shall be award of their abilities, patrolling monsters and the location of the healer, as well as healer mana (generally, under 50% mana means time to rest). DPS will note locations and pathing of patrolling monsters as well as other static groups and not run into them.
    * [Edit 5] If you have a pet, you will monitor and control said pet. The actions of your pet are your responsibility. This includes using the proper pet for the encounter/area, dismissing pets in areas where their pathing is broken, healing your pet and making sure said pet does not pull/break CC/ etc.
    * [Edit 6] If you are able to CC, whether assigned to do so or not, you will CC adds or mobs that get loose from the tank as needed until they can be handled.
    * [Edit 8] If you are capable of dispelling harmful effects or buffing allies, you will do so as long as doing so does not risk the lives of your comrades
    * [Edit 9] You will not, for any reason, AFK (go Away From Keyboard) without warning. A simple 'AFK!' will be enough warning. If you have children, or an emergency is likely to arise, you will alert your group/raid upon joining

    Not one of these rules is, IMO, extreme. Most, to me, are common sense. The failure to follow them is part of why the community in some other MMOs is so poor.

    Below is a list of edits and the contributors. The rules may grow, but only based on feedback from this thread. All edits will remain within my original philosophy of being acceptable, common sense rules and not over the top.
    [Edit 1] Thank you, Baylen
    [Edit 2] Thank you, Nucleotides
    [Edit 3] Thank you, Sium
    [Edit 4] Thank you, Arixtotle
    [Edit 5] Thank you, MaddBomber83
    [Edit 6] Personal addition
    [Edit 7] Bolded, Italicized and Underlined a rule, thanks Chivere
    [Edit 8] Thank you, Ribbet
    [Edit 9] Thank you, Nachielous (All Out Assault Ventrilo)
    Last edited by Mazikeen; 02-01-2011 at 05:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Telaran Belsandra's Avatar
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    I completely agree with your post. I would like to add just a bit though.

    The community in both the forums and game hold players to a code of conduct. You make your reputation from the first day you start playing. Do you steal the mining node after someone took the time to clear to it? Do you try to kill steal people all the time. Do you just stand and watch someone die to the elite mob for a quest or perhaps help them? Are you a rude group/guild mate that bad-mouthes all the time?

    People who do things like this need to be held accountable. If they don't change they should be blacklisted. In EQ there were people known server wide as jerks. They were often great players, amazing tanks or dps but such jerks no one would group with them. They were shunned for the rude, mean people they were. They made their reputation and had to live by it.

    The GMs and Trion also need to enforce heavy bans on people for unaccceptable behavior in both game actions and what they say.

    If the WoW community attitude is allowed in Rift it will be very sad. Hopefully, if those of us tired of such attitude stand against it will not ruin this game as it has WoW.

  3. #3
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    i feel a sticky

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazikeen View Post
    I just read a response to a thread that amazed me. The person was either being sarcastic, or just... ugh. So, here is my personal set of rules. I think old-school Everquest 1 players will recognize many of them.

    Tank -
    * Your job is to hold aggro. You shall do this to the best of your ability, within reason.
    * You are not expected to retrieve aggro from players who are being blatantly stupid. Accidents happen, and you will retrieve aggro when possible if one occurs, but if a player is repeatedly drawing aggro out of stupidity (breaking CC, going full-bore on DPS, etc) you can and by all rights should let them die.
    * The healer is the most important group/raid member. You will value their life above all others.
    * You shall obtain the best gear possible to fulfill your role, within reason.
    * You are expected, in general, to lead the group/raid. Most will look up to you. Learn all you can about a given area or dungeon, within reason.

    Healer -
    * Your job is to heal. You shall do this to the best of your ability, within reason.
    * You are not expected to heal players who are being blatantly stupid. Accidents happen, and you will heal when possible if one occurs, but if a player is repeatedly drawing aggro out of stupidity (breaking CC, going full-bore on DPS, etc) you can and by all rights should let them die.
    * The tank is the most important group/raid member. You will value their life above all others.
    * You shall obtain the best gear possible to fulfill your role, within reason.
    * You will know what heals have what effects and learn how to utilize them.

    DPS -
    * Your job is to do damage. You shall do this to the best of your ability, within reason.
    * You shall obtain the best gear possible to fulfill your role, within reason.
    * You will, when in a group of people who's abilities (skill/gear levels) are unknown to you, throttle your DPS appropriately.
    * You will not break crowd control, ever. This is the tanks job.

    All Players -
    * You shall take the time to understand the basics of grouping. This includes proper group etiquette, the general concept of aggro control, when you should/should not pull, what crowd control is and why it exists, your personal role in a group and how to perform within acceptable boundaries and what is considered taboo (breaking CC, ninja looting, etc).
    * You will learn the basic concepts of pulling (including Line of Sight and Ranged pulls) and healing (HoTs versus Splash/Instant heals and what each does).
    * You will be partially self-reliant. If you must retreat from a fight to care for your wounds or control a monster attacking you, if you are able to do so, you will.
    * You will not roll on gear unless it is viable for your Calling.
    * If you are leading a group/raid, you will state the loot rules before beginning, and if discussion is required, have a civil discussion about your choice.
    * You will, at all times, be civil. In any MMO there are multiple levels of maturity amongst the population, but civility is a simple concept and there is no reason to be anything but.
    * You may, if you wish, offer advice to someone. If you offer said advice, proper etiquette dictates you ask if the recipient wants it beforehand, and you shall have some foundation from which to draw this advice (past experience, etc).
    * If someone offers you advice in a civil manner, whether asked for or not, you will accept it either graciously, or silently. Whether you choose to follow through on utilizing it is your option.

    Not one of these rules is, IMO, extreme. Most, to me, are common sense. The failure to follow them is part of why the community in some other MMOs is so poor.

    Who died and made you king of how players develop their class abilities? Its stupid people like you that upset players and cause them to want no interaction with the game and then your left with a small group of spoiled rotten children that want's perfection instead of enjoyment of playing.


    Btw what do you think is killing WoW atm? Well you hit the hammer on the nail by posting this ..
    Every ones entitled to learn class functions on their own and if they feel they need help then that is what guides or for.
    Last edited by Littlebuddy; 01-29-2011 at 11:14 PM.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser SniperCT's Avatar
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    Don't forget Wheaton's Law!
    I see people need to be reminded of Wheaton's Law. Read it. Learn it. Live it.

  6. #6
    General of Telara Mazikeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlebuddy View Post
    Who died and made you king of how players develop their class abilities? Its stupid people like you that upset players and cause them to want no interaction with the game and then your left with a small group of spoiled rotten children that want's perfection instead of enjoyment of playing.

    Every ones entitled to learn class functions on their own and if they feel they need help then that is what guides or for.
    None of my 'rules' require any in-depth study of the game.
    Many of them, in fact, say 'within reason'.
    Never once did I say someone had to put out X DPS/HPS/TPS. I stated they will fulfill their role as needed.
    There was nothing stating they had to have certain abilities, skill tree setups or gear.
    I never requested perfection. Ever.
    And most of these 'rules' can be checked off using information from other MMOs. Gear, abilities, CC, pulling tactics and aggro mechanics are largely shared among them.

    [Edited to add this quote from Littlebuddy]
    Btw what do you think is killing WoW atm? Well you hit the hammer on the nail by posting this ..
    What's killing WoW is lack of innovation, gear bloating, mudflation and a horrible community.
    A community that requires a certain GearScore or DPS for groups, heroics or raids.
    A community that has many players that refuse to follow these simple rules and would rather charge in, pull everything, AoE a whole room and walk away untouched.
    A community that does not understand the concept of 'let the tank pull', 'throttle your DPS' or 'don't break CC'.
    A community with people who mock others instead of offering to help.

    Yeah, THAT community.
    These rules were largely followed in WoW vanilla and the community was largely more acceptable back then.
    Last edited by Mazikeen; 01-29-2011 at 11:20 PM.

  7. #7
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    I don't know how much those rules will apply here. I know they really don't to CoH, where "healing" is a distant, distant, third place to buffs and debuffs for support characters. You can do TFs (similar to dungeon crawls) without a healer as long as you have good buffs/debuffs. RIFT looks to have at least some significant buffing mechanics, which could throw things off.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazikeen View Post
    None of my 'rules' require any in-depth study of the game.
    Many of them, in fact, say 'within reason'.
    Never once did I say someone had to put out X DPS/HPS/TPS. I stated they will fulfill their role as needed.
    There was nothing stating they had to have certain abilities, skill tree setups or gear.
    I never requested perfection. Ever.
    And most of these 'rules' can be checked off using information from other MMOs. Gear, abilities, CC, pulling tactics and aggro mechanics are largely shared among them.

    [Edited to add this quote from Littlebuddy]


    What's killing WoW is lack of innovation, gear bloating, mudflation and a horrible community.
    A community that requires a certain GearScore or DPS for groups, heroics or raids.
    A community that has many players that refuse to follow these simple rules and would rather charge in, pull everything, AoE a whole room and walk away untouched.
    A community that does not understand the concept of 'let the tank pull', 'throttle your DPS' or 'don't break CC'.
    A community with people who mock others instead of offering to help.

    Yeah, THAT community.
    These rules were largely followed in WoW vanilla and the community was largely more acceptable back then.

    Aww cut the crap, you have to learn to crawl before you can walk and that goes for all new MMO's. If I told you what to wear, what to eat, when to go to the crapper and a long list of other things then you would take it personal and get upset with that idea.

    Let people figure it out on their own is what I am saying.

    Btw when you say Your rules it implies you expect people to play to your standards..
    Last edited by Littlebuddy; 01-29-2011 at 11:29 PM.

  9. #9
    General of Telara Mazikeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlebuddy View Post
    Aww cut the crap, you have to learn to crawl before you can walk and that goes for all new MMO's. If I told you what to wear, what to eat, when to go to the crapper and a long list of other things then you would take it personal and get upset with that idea.

    Let people figure it out on their own is what I am saying.

    Btw when you say Your rules it implies you expect people to play to your standards..
    Starter levels are for learning
    Asking questions are for learning
    Guides, which you yourself brought up earlier, are for learning
    Saying 'I'm new at this, so please bear with me' is not out of the question
    Again, none of my rules are brutal
    Joining a group without understanding the basics is NOT a time for learning. All of the rules can be learned outside of groups and raids. All of them

    And I do expect people to play by my standards
    If I'm healing and you're a bad tank, I'll offer advice. If you refuse to take it, I'll let you die or I'll leave
    If I'm healing and you're a bad DPS, I'll offer advice. If you refuse to take it, I'll let you die or I'll leave
    If I'm tanking and you can't heal me, I'll offer advice. If you refuse to take it, I leave
    If I'm tanking and you're bad DPS, I'll offer advice. If you refuse to take it, I'll let you die
    If I'm DPS you're a bad tank or you can't heal me, I'll offer advice. If you refuse to take it, I leave
    Or, if the option exists, I'll replace you

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Vallien's Avatar
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    D: You didn't put the Rules of the Bard!!!

    I just smite them with my lute.

    EDIT:

    Since Bards are just completely awesome and have their own category: ie: Tank, Healer, DPS, Bard: I will give you their rules!

    + Keep up all Motifs at all times!
    + Keep up all Codas at all times on the enemies!
    + Cadence their faces off to heal others!
    Last edited by Vallien; 01-29-2011 at 11:47 PM.

    Thanks to Eriatarka for Duckwheel!!

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Feiyth's Avatar
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    i think this is a reasonable post, none of the rulesa re offensive or like the OP said "Brutal" in any way - just putting the game simply thats all.

    and hes right, if somebody is bad - offer advice, if they dont listen they get removed/replaced.
    that goes for me too, if im new to healing, i expect to get advice and i will take it if its put to me in the right way, and i expect the same from others.

    +1 OP - i see where you are coming from.

  12. #12
    Sword of Telara Vanwaros's Avatar
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    Talk to people.

    No other rule is needed.
    Last edited by Vanwaros; 01-29-2011 at 11:53 PM.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Aurelie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazikeen View Post
    Tank -
    * Your job is to hold aggro.
    Damn it, I knew I was forgetting something.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Concept2's Avatar
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    Every group is different and will play to different standards. I've played in groups where showing up was the biggest concern, if you did that you were golden. I've also played in groups that missing 1 interrupt ONE time, meant you were a massive baddie and sat for the rest of the night. (that's an exaggeration, but still)

    one raid group might want everyone to be in BiS pre-raid gear to even touch a zone. They might expect you to have a great vent, under 100ms ping and text book knowledge of your class. You may have to never miss a buff/debuff, a heal, or lose agro.
    Other groups might just be content going in with quest gear and chatting on vent for 2 hours.

    there are not set 'rules' for how to play. The only real 'rule' is this:
    You're playing with other people, try to respect how they want to play.

    We're not using a LFD tool in this game (thank god) so you don't have to join a group with the most intense guild on the server.
    You also don't have to join a group with the newest level 50 toon in the game if you don't want. It's not being forced on you.
    (which was one of WoWs biggest problems since LFD.)

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Destrokk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazikeen View Post
    I just read a response to a thread that amazed me. The person was either being sarcastic, or just... ugh. So, here is my personal set of rules. I think old-school Everquest 1 players will recognize many of them.

    Tank -
    * Your job is to hold aggro. You shall do this to the best of your ability, within reason.
    * You are not expected to retrieve aggro from players who are being blatantly stupid. Accidents happen, and you will retrieve aggro when possible if one occurs, but if a player is repeatedly drawing aggro out of stupidity (breaking CC, going full-bore on DPS, etc) you can and by all rights should let them die.
    * The healer is the most important group/raid member. You will value their life above all others.
    * You shall obtain the best gear possible to fulfill your role, within reason.
    * You are expected, in general, to lead the group/raid. Most will look up to you. Learn all you can about a given area or dungeon, within reason.

    Healer -
    * Your job is to heal. You shall do this to the best of your ability, within reason.
    * You are not expected to heal players who are being blatantly stupid. Accidents happen, and you will heal when possible if one occurs, but if a player is repeatedly drawing aggro out of stupidity (breaking CC, going full-bore on DPS, etc) you can and by all rights should let them die.
    * The tank is the most important group/raid member. You will value their life above all others.
    * You shall obtain the best gear possible to fulfill your role, within reason.
    * You will know what heals have what effects and learn how to utilize them.

    DPS -
    * Your job is to do damage. You shall do this to the best of your ability, within reason.
    * You shall obtain the best gear possible to fulfill your role, within reason.
    * You will, when in a group of people who's abilities (skill/gear levels) are unknown to you, throttle your DPS appropriately.
    * You will not break crowd control, ever. This is the tanks job.

    All Players -
    * You shall take the time to understand the basics of grouping. This includes proper group etiquette, the general concept of aggro control, when you should/should not pull, what crowd control is and why it exists, your personal role in a group and how to perform within acceptable boundaries and what is considered taboo (breaking CC, ninja looting, etc).
    * You will learn the basic concepts of pulling (including Line of Sight and Ranged pulls) and healing (HoTs versus Splash/Instant heals and what each does).
    * You will be partially self-reliant. If you must retreat from a fight to care for your wounds or control a monster attacking you, if you are able to do so, you will.
    * You will not roll on gear unless it is viable for your Calling.
    * If you are leading a group/raid, you will state the loot rules before beginning, and if discussion is required, have a civil discussion about your choice.
    * You will, at all times, be civil. In any MMO there are multiple levels of maturity amongst the population, but civility is a simple concept and there is no reason to be anything but.
    * You may, if you wish, offer advice to someone. If you offer said advice, proper etiquette dictates you ask if the recipient wants it beforehand, and you shall have some foundation from which to draw this advice (past experience, etc).
    * If someone offers you advice in a civil manner, whether asked for or not, you will accept it either graciously, or silently. Whether you choose to follow through on utilizing it is your option.

    Not one of these rules is, IMO, extreme. Most, to me, are common sense. The failure to follow them is part of why the community in some other MMOs is so poor.
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