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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Trion enforce yourin-game policies!

  1. #16
    General of Telara Ardor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellishly View Post
    You can't have visited the cesspool that is Greybriar's chat. Not just in 1-29 either, Level 60 chat is oftentimes just as toxic. Racism, sexism, talk of paedophilia, the topic the OP mentions, doing anal spam are all thriving totally fine at almost any given time.
    Don't forget: CQ is kind of nauseating for this too. Not only do you hear all of this in CQ chat (seriously, is there some way I can add *all* of Seastone to my ignore list?), but it seems like everyone is spamming /yell macros with the sickest nastiness in them. Your "wild growth" macro pun is really clever, little fella.

    I have a lot of respect for seebs, but using the "report spam or offensive" is the only way to get the correct result: that I don't ever have to hear from that person again. If Trion staff could actually review the chat logs around the time these reports are made, it would be a bonus, but depending on others for my own sanity is folly.

    It would be better if my ignore list were shared account-wide. If ignore someone, there is zero reason to think I'd want to read their garbage while I'm logged on to a different toon. By the same token, I should be ignoring not that one character, but the entire account associated with that character.

    Maybe Trion's oversight has improved, maybe it hasn't. I haven't seen any GMs do what seebs described (actually live-monitoring chat and handing out penalties). Not once. Never. Anyhow, it's expensive for MMO developers to have GMs online all the time monitoring public chat, so it's probably not realistic to think that GM live-monitoring is ever something that's going to be prevalent. Give us the proper tools to manage what and who we want to hear, and we'll be happy to manage it ourselves.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellishly View Post
    You can't have visited the cesspool that is Greybriar's chat. Not just in 1-29 either, Level 60 chat is oftentimes just as toxic. Racism, sexism, talk of paedophilia, the topic the OP mentions, doing anal spam are all thriving totally fine at almost any given time.
    I've only been active recently on Faeblight. I have heard that the rate of change is not constant across shards, but my impression was that GMs were starting to get involved on all the shards at least some. It may take time. At first the impact wasn't super obvious, but as time goes on, the most disruptive people keep getting squelched, and the remainder tend to improve a bit or disappear too.

    One thing I've noticed is that things that get reported go away a lot faster than things that don't. Get together with some people and make a point of reading chat and reporting people (/report playername works as well as the pop-up).
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  3. #18
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardor View Post
    Don't forget: CQ is kind of nauseating for this too. Not only do you hear all of this in CQ chat (seriously, is there some way I can add *all* of Seastone to my ignore list?), but it seems like everyone is spamming /yell macros with the sickest nastiness in them. Your "wild growth" macro pun is really clever, little fella.

    I have a lot of respect for seebs, but using the "report spam or offensive" is the only way to get the correct result: that I don't ever have to hear from that person again. If Trion staff could actually review the chat logs around the time these reports are made, it would be a bonus, but depending on others for my own sanity is folly.

    It would be better if my ignore list were shared account-wide. If ignore someone, there is zero reason to think I'd want to read their garbage while I'm logged on to a different toon. By the same token, I should be ignoring not that one character, but the entire account associated with that character.

    Maybe Trion's oversight has improved, maybe it hasn't. I haven't seen any GMs do what seebs described (actually live-monitoring chat and handing out penalties). Not once. Never. Anyhow, it's expensive for MMO developers to have GMs online all the time monitoring public chat, so it's probably not realistic to think that GM live-monitoring is ever something that's going to be prevalent. Give us the proper tools to manage what and who we want to hear, and we'll be happy to manage it ourselves.
    I don't use the "report" pop-up, but the /report command, because I don't want to /ignore people, I want to accurately observe the state of chat.

    I do have an addon which mostly does an okay job of synchronizing my friends lists. ("Socialize". I think it's still buggy and want to revisit my design at some point.)
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhead View Post
    I do use the ignore feature, the feature is easily by passed by making a new character. Bam now I can see the players talking about the same old vulgar topics once again. when there is no action taken for things like that then you start to wonder. Why is there even moderators when they arent used? Trion enforces their Forum rules perfectly fine, Game rules? They dont know how to enforce it apparently >.<
    If they are making new toons to do this, then that means they are targeting you. Or you should just stop publicly saying "ignored!" like it's some kind of triumph. Also most players dont' do this. usually they are just other players. and IF you hate it so much... leave the channel? that's like going into Silvermoon on WoW on an RP server and expecting intelligent discourse. Just stay out of there and go somewhere else. Let them have their channel, at least it's there and not all over.

    How clueless are you about dealing with people like this? Surprises me how many people just want to be e-heroes instead.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardor View Post
    Don't forget: CQ is kind of nauseating for this too. Not only do you hear all of this in CQ chat (seriously, is there some way I can add *all* of Seastone to my ignore list?), but it seems like everyone is spamming /yell macros with the sickest nastiness in them. Your "wild growth" macro pun is really clever, little fella.

    I have a lot of respect for seebs, but using the "report spam or offensive" is the only way to get the correct result: that I don't ever have to hear from that person again. If Trion staff could actually review the chat logs around the time these reports are made, it would be a bonus, but depending on others for my own sanity is folly.

    It would be better if my ignore list were shared account-wide. If ignore someone, there is zero reason to think I'd want to read their garbage while I'm logged on to a different toon. By the same token, I should be ignoring not that one character, but the entire account associated with that character.

    Maybe Trion's oversight has improved, maybe it hasn't. I haven't seen any GMs do what seebs described (actually live-monitoring chat and handing out penalties). Not once. Never. Anyhow, it's expensive for MMO developers to have GMs online all the time monitoring public chat, so it's probably not realistic to think that GM live-monitoring is ever something that's going to be prevalent. Give us the proper tools to manage what and who we want to hear, and we'll be happy to manage it ourselves.
    CQ is just fine. Join a premade instead of a pug and you won't see all this BS.

    TL;DR

    Discerning players don't usually have to deal with this kind of problem. We don't put ourselves in situations that house it (nor do we remain in situation/places that house it). Become discerning and take care of yourself instead of expecting GM's to do it for you.

    Here's where I'll agree though. Universal ignore list, and friend list too. that would rock. and allow the option to "auto allow alts created for me" and "auto allow alts created for others" as an option.
    Last edited by darkzerofury; 03-10-2014 at 12:29 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkzerofury View Post
    If they are making new toons to do this, then that means they are targeting you.
    Not necessarily. Sometimes they just do it over time because they know people tend to ignore them.

    Or you should just stop publicly saying "ignored!" like it's some kind of triumph. Also most players dont' do this. usually they are just other players. and IF you hate it so much... leave the channel?
    The OP was talking about the /say and emote "channels", which you can't easily leave, and which you shouldn't have to.

    that's like going into Silvermoon on WoW on an RP server and expecting intelligent discourse. Just stay out of there and go somewhere else. Let them have their channel, at least it's there and not all over.
    I think you miss the point here, which is that the people being complained about are actively harassing the RPers, and are going to the places people are likely to RP to harass them, using the channels that are usually designated for things like in-character communication. And since they know nearly everyone puts them on ignore over time, they then make new characters, or transfer characters around, so they can do it more.

    Trion's had sort of a blind spot about this for a while.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    Not necessarily. Sometimes they just do it over time because they know people tend to ignore them.



    The OP was talking about the /say and emote "channels", which you can't easily leave, and which you shouldn't have to.



    I think you miss the point here, which is that the people being complained about are actively harassing the RPers, and are going to the places people are likely to RP to harass them, using the channels that are usually designated for things like in-character communication. And since they know nearly everyone puts them on ignore over time, they then make new characters, or transfer characters around, so they can do it more.

    Trion's had sort of a blind spot about this for a while.
    There is no point here. You have the ability to leave the channel. You know it's a toxic place. Don't go there if it's that bad. "but I shouldn't have to!" I shouldn't have to do a lot of things. Welcome to reality. Yes, Trion hasn't done things your way. Here's a cookie for your troubles. Do what the rp community did and create your own channel for levelers. Or create your own site for new players to go to for help that YOU can moderate. At least they put out more effort to deal with the trolls than complain whine and cry about it.

    Or just leave the channel, move on with your business, and call it a day. Staying in an environment you know is toxic is like sitting in the level 60 chat, or crossevents chat expecting smart discourse. It doesn't happen.

    Like I said, just looks like crusaders trying to be an e-hero about something that isn't even important in the world. Good for you.
    Last edited by darkzerofury; 03-10-2014 at 12:38 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by caitie View Post
    Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.
    Try telling that to Trion....

    Check out Soldiers Ink. Combat Strategy Game.
    http://plarium.com/en/games/soldiers...3ZWU00#/signup

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkzerofury View Post

    Like I said, just looks like crusaders trying to be an e-hero about something that isn't even important in YOUR world. Good for you.
    It's all a matter of perspective sir.


    T

  10. #25
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    As a long-time player of MMOs I've always found the use of the word distasteful even when it connotes to being severely damaged by a mob or player. That being said if I was to take offense at every occurrence of the word with an MMO connotation I would have to ignore people I actually like in the game.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkzerofury View Post
    There is no point here.
    That you haven't seen a point doesn't mean there isn't a point.

    You have the ability to leave the channel. You know it's a toxic place. Don't go there if it's that bad. "but I shouldn't have to!" I shouldn't have to do a lot of things. Welcome to reality. Yes, Trion hasn't done things your way.
    Part of the point is: As of late, they have started doing these things. Do you know why? I'll give you a hint: Money.

    Players who quit because chat sucks don't pay money. Players who hate the chat experience are less likely to recommend the game to their friends. People who really like the game experience are happy, and recommend their friends, and are more likely to pay money.

    Or just leave the channel, move on with your business, and call it a day. Staying in an environment you know is toxic is like sitting in the level 60 chat, or crossevents chat expecting smart discourse. It doesn't happen.
    See, I did that at one point. But the only reason I play MMOs, at all, is social interaction. I like helping newbies. So there's only two options on the table:

    1. The level chats are clean enough that newbies can come to the game and not be immediately driven away.
    2. There is no reason for me to play the game.

    So I quit, back in August. And I occasionally logged in to check whether things had improved, and found they hadn't. And then one day I logged in to say hi to some people and do a social thing, and I saw GM_Soulwalker come into 1-29 and start handing out helpful encouragement to play nice. I watched for a few more days, I continued to see improvements, so I resubbed.

    And now, 1-29 chat is actually pretty pleasant most of the time. We've had multi-hour chats about favorite musicians and their influences, about musicians people might like but not have heard of, and it's been a ton of fun.

    Like I said, just looks like crusaders trying to be an e-hero about something that isn't even important in the world. Good for you.
    It may not seem important to you, but you are not the entire world. Every day, I meet people who have come to Rift to try it out, and who comment on the tone of the chat system. Regularly, I see people deciding to stay in Rift and buy things because they can tell the difference between Rift's chat and the chat of the games they were previously playing.

    MMO chat does matter to some players, and since those players are humans, I consider MMO chat "important", in that the quality of MMO chat has a real impact on the quality of life for some people. People, I figure, probably ought to count as "mattering".

    There is no reason to have a chat system if it's not intended to be used. Honestly, if they didn't want to maintain chat, the next best choice would just be to remove the level chats entirely from the game, because why bother having a feature if the sole purpose of it is to make people unhappy until they get sick of it and quit either the chat or the game?
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  12.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhead View Post
    I am sick of Trions lack of dealing with obscene and otherwise disrespectful players. I just reported 2 players for talking about ****** (sorry profanity filter and im not sure if trion could figure out what ***** means) other people in /say chat. That topic is utterly obscene and vulgar and if action is not taken against them (which there wont be any action cause I report players talking about similar nasty things and they never get introuble for it).I will have lost all faith in trion.
    I am sick of it. again, the topic is obscene and vulgar, which doesnt belong in ANY MMO. I demand action.
    Talking about such topics is pretty unpleasant, and you did the right thing by reporting them. While I won't go into our CS process in detail, every bit of documentation we gather helps address the problem long term. You may not see the end result, but we do take this kind of stuff seriously.

    In the short term if they continue on about a subject ignore is the best bet. You've taken the appropriate action in reporting them, subjecting yourself further doesn't make things any better for you.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    Even if it were true, it'd be irrelevant, because it's asking the wrong question.

    Stop having stuff that's worth money! Burglars only steal because the stuff they can steal is worth money. If you didn't go around having nice stuff, burglars wouldn't bother you.

    Sound reasonable and fair? No? Well, it's not when dealing with abusive behavior, either. The problem is not that people respond.
    See, now this is why analogies tend to break down. A better analogy would be: I'm walking around WalMart, and the bozo down the aisle from me is spouting obscenities, and generally being abusive to the people around him. While I would *hope* that a Walmart employee would come over and ask him to leave (or at least stop the vulgar language), in my experience it probably won't happen *unless enough people reported him*. If I could mute him in the process of reporting him, so I didn't have to listen to him, and I *chose* not to do so, would you not agree that i share at least some culpability if I find his future vulgarity offensive?

    And actually, if you really want to stop trolls, the most effective thing by far is not giving them no response at all; it's giving them a response they don't want.
    Hmmmm. possibly. But in my experience, if the trolls don't get some kind of feedback, positive or negative, they tend to just peter out and go away. Obviously your mileage may vary, but in general they seem to be attention- ummm... attention-prostitutes

    I don't put people on ignore, in general, because I'm logging chat and want accurate data. But the main issue here is that whether or not I ignore them has no real impact. The reason I want the abusive people removed isn't what happens when I see them, because I don't really care much. I've been offended once that I can think of in the last year or so, and it wasn't by the trolls. But... I do care about what happens to the general tone of the community, and what new players experience.

    That said: Trion has been getting a lot more aggressive about this. Not only are GMs visiting chat, but they're lurking some now, too. And it was a schadenfreude goldmine watching someone do the usual "haha look how edgy and racist I am" thing in 1-29, and less than a minute later, GM_Soulwalker commented that he was going to be actioned and silenced for that remark. In 1-29.

    Very cool stuff happening. So while I basically agree with the OP's sentiment, I observe that they are starting to do a lot of very effective cleanup and life is improving. Six months ago, I would warn people about Rift's chat, while praising the game itself as fun. Three months ago, I was telling people it was okay but definitely improving. These days, I mention the quality of the public chat as a selling point.
    While it is certainly your right *not* to put people on ignore, if others (such as the OP) find them offensive, there is no excuse for continuing to listen to them.

    Fully realizing that this is a private game, and free-speech issues do NOT pertain, as I'm fond of telling people: Free speech gives you the right to say whatever you like, but it does not give you the right to an audience...
    What I've Learned:
    1. Never ask a woman when the baby is due.
    2. Never, never tell a woman she looks good for her age.
    3. And most importantly, never, never, NEVER answer the question "Honey do these jeans make my butt look big?" with " It's not the jeans..."

  14. #29
    Telaran
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    If only it were possible to leave a chat channel or filter profanity.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigsman View Post
    It's all a matter of perspective sir.


    T
    then again, so is the word being discussed. it does have many meanings, people just perceive it to be bad when it actually has a few other meanings. BTW, the use of the word in games is actually accurate if you know the definition of the word.

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