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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Please Be Aware: New Forum Toxicity Policies

  1. #286
    General of Telara Ardor's Avatar
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    These "policies" are being applied incredibly inconsistently. I could point to a dozen posts that are up right now that include personal insults, trolling and value-free text.

    At the same time, every once in a while you can see infractions everywhere, on posts that don't appear to have anything wrong with them. I've also seen several posts receive infractions for simply challenging the opinions of dev favorites like Ahov, RoughRaptors and Vioarr.

    Is there a review process for handing out infractions? Why is the implementation of the "policy" so haphazard, inconsistent, and full of favoritism?

  2. #287
    RIFT Guide Writer RoughRaptorsOld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardor View Post
    These "policies" are being applied incredibly inconsistently. I could point to a dozen posts that are up right now that include personal insults, trolling and value-free text.

    At the same time, every once in a while you can see infractions everywhere, on posts that don't appear to have anything wrong with them. I've also seen several posts receive infractions for simply challenging the opinions of dev favorites like Ahov, RoughRaptors and Vioarr.

    Is there a review process for handing out infractions? Why is the implementation of the "policy" so haphazard, inconsistent, and full of favoritism?
    Just an FYI, I've received multiple infractions since this new policy was put into effect...so I don't really know what you're talking about :-P

  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    Just an FYI, I've received multiple infractions since this new policy was put into effect...so I don't really know what you're talking about :-P
    I think some in this giant thread even

    @Ardor Where is the proof? I've never seen such a thing happen and its pretty absurd. I want proof of inconsistancy, favoritism, and of people 'simply' challenging the 'dev favorites' and getting an infraction. Thank you.
    Last edited by Hydron; 03-10-2014 at 09:42 AM.

  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardor View Post
    These "policies" are being applied incredibly inconsistently. I could point to a dozen posts that are up right now that include personal insults, trolling and value-free text.

    At the same time, every once in a while you can see infractions everywhere, on posts that don't appear to have anything wrong with them. I've also seen several posts receive infractions for simply challenging the opinions of dev favorites like Ahov, RoughRaptors and Vioarr.

    Is there a review process for handing out infractions? Why is the implementation of the "policy" so haphazard, inconsistent, and full of favoritism?
    You give no proof, and likely have none, yet draw a conclusion anyway!

  5. #290
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardor View Post
    These "policies" are being applied incredibly inconsistently. I could point to a dozen posts that are up right now that include personal insults, trolling and value-free text.
    They have stated that they are not deleting everything; some things just get left up with infractions. If you think something needs action, report it.

    At the same time, every once in a while you can see infractions everywhere, on posts that don't appear to have anything wrong with them. I've also seen several posts receive infractions for simply challenging the opinions of dev favorites like Ahov, RoughRaptors and Vioarr.
    I haven't. Not once. And given that RoughRaptors has gotten infractions in this very thread, it's hard to justify claiming that the mods are showing a huge bias towards him!

    Is there a review process for handing out infractions? Why is the implementation of the "policy" so haphazard, inconsistent, and full of favoritism?
    There is a review process, yes, which they mention in pretty much all the things. The implementation is haphazard because the forum posters outnumber the mods hundreds-to-one, so they are somewhat reliant on reports and happenstance to spot things.

    And frankly, I don't see any evidence of favoritism. Humans being human, they tend to read things they agree with more favorably, and things they disagree with less favorably. Basically, if someone you agree with calls a person you think is wrong "stupid", your brain is likely to mark this as "merely an accurate description, not an insult", but if it's the other way around, you're likely to think it's insulting and out-of-line. It takes a lot of practice to learn to mitigate this, and I am not sure it is possible for humans to completely overcome it.

    So the usual sanity check for bias issues is to see whether people on both sides of an argument think the mods are biased against them. If they do, that usually means the mods are doing a good job of staying neutral.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  6. #291
    Plane Walker Tigsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    There is a review process, yes, which they mention in pretty much all the things. The implementation is haphazard because the forum posters outnumber the mods hundreds-to-one, so they are somewhat reliant on reports and happenstance to spot things.
    Not hundreds-to-one, more likely tens of thousands-to-one for a game this size based on my experience with platforms of this size.


    T

  7. #292
    Plane Walker Nickilli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    Basically, if someone you agree with calls a person you think is wrong "stupid", your brain is likely to mark this as "merely an accurate description, not an insult", but if it's the other way around, you're likely to think it's insulting and out-of-line. It takes a lot of practice to learn to mitigate this, and I am not sure it is possible for humans to completely overcome it.
    Actually it most certainly can be overcome through set consistent rules, not some feel good catch phrase like Forum Toxicity, randomly enforced.
    Any game company that does not provide clear guidelines for forum posting with words that cross the line to cause an infraction is simply a game forum that will pick and chose how and when to enforce the rules. They have intentionally left it that way so they can pick and chose.

    Intelligent design trumps arbitrary "Feelings" every time.

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  8. #293
    Plane Walker Nickilli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigsman View Post
    Not hundreds-to-one, more likely tens of thousands-to-one for a game this size based on my experience with platforms of this size.


    T
    LOL there are not Tens of thousands playing the game let alone posting on the forums.
    100 to 1 seems much more accurate and if they went about it the right way that would be more than enough.

    Check out Soldiers Ink. Combat Strategy Game.
    http://plarium.com/en/games/soldiers...3ZWU00#/signup

  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickilli View Post
    LOL there are not Tens of thousands playing the game let alone posting on the forums.
    100 to 1 seems much more accurate and if they went about it the right way that would be more than enough.
    LOL You're wrong

  10. #295
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickilli View Post
    LOL there are not Tens of thousands playing the game let alone posting on the forums.
    100 to 1 seems much more accurate and if they went about it the right way that would be more than enough.
    Estimates are ~250k players
    Even free cost too much now

  11. #296
    Plane Walker Nickilli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Credo View Post
    Estimates are ~250k players
    That's accounts...
    Not active players....
    How many are active at any given time, clearly not tens of thousands and only a small fraction ever visit the forums. So the point stil stands it is not tens of thousands to 1 in forum moderation.

    Check out Soldiers Ink. Combat Strategy Game.
    http://plarium.com/en/games/soldiers...3ZWU00#/signup

  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickilli View Post
    That's accounts...
    Not active players....
    How many are active at any given time, clearly not tens of thousands and only a small fraction ever visit the forums. So the point stil stands it is not tens of thousands to 1 in forum moderation.
    The 250k he is saying is active players. Of course this is just rumor based on whatever info some people find. I imagine 10% of that could be active at any point in time and certainly happens on peak raiding times or whatever.

    So, you're still wrong.

  13. #298
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigsman View Post
    Not hundreds-to-one, more likely tens of thousands-to-one for a game this size based on my experience with platforms of this size.
    Back at launch, there used to be a flaw in the implementation of the forum software such that you could compare the number of registered Trion accounts to the number of registered forum accounts, and it was around 5-10% of players registered at the time, although that was probably inflated by beta users.

    I've seen many estimates for Rift's population, and don't know what it is now. We can speculate a bit, though. In general, estimates for peak login activity suggest peak activity of at most 10-15% of the active player base. We don't know current shard population caps; back in 2011, they appear to have been roughly 1,800 at launch, and increased to at least 2,000. Of course, there were a ton more shards, but all the evidence suggests that per-shard populations are much higher now than they were then, even though the number of shards has massively decreased. Right now, there's 15 total shards (8 EU, 7 NA). They rarely hit "full", but they certainly get fairly crowded and laggy during peak hours, so I'm gonna guess a bare minimum of ~3k users per shard for peak load, so 45k users across 15 shards. Which would lead to an estimate of ~450k active players overall. Maybe a bit higher or lower, but I would consider that a plausible estimate.

    Certainly higher than it has been at some points in the past; there were brief peaks right after the F2P launch, and after the Steam relaunch, but in each case, population dropped some afterwards, but I don't think it declined to where it had been before the new user influx. I certainly see a definite increase in active population in most contexts, whether it's guild members online, people in private channels, or whatever else.

    Not sure about the exact forum moderator count, but I don't think it's as high as ten.

    If we double the forum moderator estimate, and halve the player estimate, that gets us 200k players, which means maybe 20k who actually ever use the forums, and 20 moderators. So 1k:1, give or take. But most players aren't very active on the forums, and I think hundreds-to-one is about right for the practical load.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  14. #299
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardor View Post
    These "policies" are being applied incredibly inconsistently. I could point to a dozen posts that are up right now that include personal insults, trolling and value-free text.

    At the same time, every once in a while you can see infractions everywhere, on posts that don't appear to have anything wrong with them. I've also seen several posts receive infractions for simply challenging the opinions of dev favorites like Ahov, RoughRaptors and Vioarr.

    Is there a review process for handing out infractions? Why is the implementation of the "policy" so haphazard, inconsistent, and full of favoritism?
    lol Ardor got an infraction for what? I don't see any name calling, foul language, or trolling which is what REAL toxicity is. If you get an infraction for having an opinion than this new policy is a complete joke. I see people getting infractions for doing nothing.

  15. #300
    RIFT Guide Writer RoughRaptorsOld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronach View Post
    lol Ardor got an infraction for what? I don't see any name calling, foul language, or trolling which is what REAL toxicity is. If you get an infraction for having an opinion than this new policy is a complete joke. I see people getting infractions for doing nothing.
    Read the second paragraph :-P

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