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Thread: How do you feel Trion could improve the Patron tier?

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser
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    Default How do you feel Trion could improve the Patron tier?

    In another thread, WockyCC posted the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by WockyCC View Post
    Defiance and Rift have really good models.
    I did not want to derail the other thread any further, so I started a new one.

    Regarding WockyCC's quote, I agree with his statement regarding Rift having a good free-to-play model, except for the Patron level. I don't feel like Trion quite yet knows what to do with subscribers yet, though I have hope that they will figure it out, and some player brainstorming could help with that. Is an artifact a day in a daily box really enough to justify patronage? The vials aren't that useful at level 60, and the 110% mount has been superseded by the 150% ones at that point.

    In my opinion, being a subscriber doesn't currently offer a lot of utility over being a cash shop customer, unless you are leveling alts. I also feel that, since patrons have paid actual money just like the cash shop folks, we ought to receive a gem stipend, even if just a small one. Most other titles that offer a free-to-play vs. subscriber mode do this.

    In particular, I would like for a Trion representative to explain why Rift does not offer patrons temporary gems if their finance department is somehow concerned about permanent ones. We know it is possible to do, based on the temporary credits issued to some players around the time of Autumn Harvest. The credits could go poof when the patron subscription expires if they haven't been used.

    I believe that offering a stipend would do a lot to foster goodwill. Right now, my perception, based on things like Promo Weeks, limited sales, and other Rift Store incentives, is that the company places greater emphasis on cash shop customers than they do subscribers. I feel that patrons should be appreciated as much or more, given that dependable, predictable revenue is desirable for most development teams so they can plan future content. I get that Trion doesn't want to make patron status a "must have," but I feel like the benefits are a bit too modest right now and could be scaled up without becoming "necessary."

    For example, why aren't patrons receiving bird seed in daily gifts as we have with other currencies? That seems a perfectly reasonable request. They don't have to put in as much as would be received by boxes, but it does give us more than the free-to-play players, so that seems balanced and fair.

    Things that I feel could be done to improve patron status:


    • Choices in patron plans: perhaps a PvP-focused plan with more of those marks; a PvE-focused plan with more emphasis on those currencies; a dimension-focused plan with an emphasis on special dimension items, and so on. More choices are good, and enable the player to select something that better suits his or her preferred play style.
    • A credit stipend, even if modest and based on temporary gems.
    • The new box currencies being treated as regular currencies, so subscribers receive the currency benefit in daily gifts
    • Special patron-only dimension items in daily gifts (different from loyalty tier items)

    I'm sure other folks have creative suggestions that would not equate to pay-to-win, and I look forward to hearing them.

    As things currently stand, cash shop customers have greater flexibility and choice even when spending the same amount of money that subscribers do per month. I know I'd gladly trade every single patron potion I've got for better access to "fun" things, because, like many people, I like the flexibility of differentiating and customizing my character's look.

    Here's a different idea: I'd be glad to pay a higher (within reason) subscription rate if there were an all-you-can eat version, like old-fashioned subscription models. In other words, access to everything in the cash shop and the game. Like, this tier could add a sensible platinum price to goods in addition to the gem price. For example, subscribers at this level could buy premium mounts like the Emerald Ki Rin with platinum instead of gems.

    My post is not in any way about greed. Rather, it's about giving patrons better value for the money they have spent supporting the company with consistent quarterly revenue.

    Ultimately, it's about increasing flexibility and choice in ways that better suit each player's preferred gaming style.

    Thanks for reading, and I hope you all have a great weekend.
    Last edited by Jirahar; 02-08-2014 at 11:58 AM.

  2. #2
    Champion Kaiser Phoenix's Avatar
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    trion didn't give patrons a credit stipend because they were afraid that the people who entrusted them with many months or years of money in advance would not end up spending "fresh" money on their f2p system.

    and like most of the companies which won't last a significant timeframe, they value the short-term quick buck over anything else.

    let's just say that dumb business decisions like these are the absolute cause for trion's current situation.
    Last edited by Kaiser Phoenix; 02-08-2014 at 12:57 PM.

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara Seranov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser Phoenix View Post
    trion didn't give patrons a credit stipend because they were afraid that the people who entrusted them with many months or years of money in advance would not end up spending "fresh" money on their f2p system.

    and like most of the companies which won't last a significant timeframe, they value the short-term quick buck over anything else.

    let's just say that dumb business decisions like these are the absolute cause for trion's current situation.
    Yup, sure do hate it when the company has funds to put new things in the game! Not like we wanted the Air Saga or Dream Weaving or T3 or any of the other neat toys that are on the way, or anything.

    tl;dr: Whatever, guy.
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  4. #4
    Ascendant Shattered's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser Phoenix View Post
    trion didn't give patrons a credit stipend because they were afraid that the people who entrusted them with many months or years of money in advance would not end up spending "fresh" money on their f2p system.

    and like most of the companies which won't last a significant timeframe, they value the short-term quick buck over anything else.

    let's just say that dumb business decisions like these are the absolute cause for trion's current situation.
    I remained a subscriber to LOTRO when they went F2P. They provided their subscribers with a credit stipend, and this is largely why I did keep subscribing. The stipend generated a great deal of goodwill for one, and I know I spent additional money because of it. If Turbine had not provided the stipend, I don't believe I'd have subscribed further, nor spent money in their store. The main reason I canceled my subscription to Rift was the lack of such a stipend. I think I spend less in the store than I would with a stipend. Perhaps this isn't intuitive to Trion- giving a little to get a lot back. But with LOTRO, it made me feel my "patronage" was appreciated, and I didn't mind returning the appreciation.

    I don't have a clue what "data" has caused Trion to snub subscribers, but I honestly feel it has misled them.
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  5. #5
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    Paying €12.99 a month, I do wish that there would be more benefits.

    I don't know if the patrol daily gifts give any proper items to use (weapons, gear etc..) so far I have only gotten artifacts, which for me, a new player, seem sort of useless.
    Last edited by Poetricks; 02-08-2014 at 01:34 PM.

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Phreakuency's Avatar
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    Having paid for a total of about 4 years worth of subs I'm fairly happy with the patron features.

    The main thing I wish they'd fix is the loot in the daily and weekly rewards. It needs to be intelligent enough not to give you marks for stuff you're already capped in.

    The loyalty tier stuff is decent enough too. The token and speed bonus, the portrait frames etc.

    Perhaps they could add, even a small amount of credits in each weekly reward box. 50-100 even. Enough to buy soul walk cooldown, or enough to make up the difference for something you're short on (example two budgie troves are cleverly priced just slightly more than the credits that 1 rex gives).

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  8. #8
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    The patron gifts are great when they are incorporated with the events/promotions going on. For example, my patron mostly paid for itself during the yule event. Got several of the gift boxes that were sellable on the AH. For the current mini-event, it would be nice to have some seed dropping in the patron gift, and perhaps another trove in the weekly gift.


    One thing that is odd is that buying a patron pass gives less loyalty that anything else. With the patron discount, it's 2160 a month, which should give 8640 total loyalty but ends up giving 7000 total to match what is given for real-money subs. Maybe they could bump both up to an even 10,000 to encourage patron, or at least make the loyalty fragments drop a lot more often from the gifts. Last month I got around 200 extra loyalty, which does not make up the 1640 that I lost buying a patron pass and not something else.

  9. #9
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jirahar View Post
    I don't feel like Trion quite yet knows what to do with subscribers yet, though I have hope that they will figure it out, and some player brainstorming could help with that.
    I disagree, Trion knows exactly what the subscription/patron package is, players don't.

    The issue stems, I believe from a mix of things, but mainly two things. First as we all know Rift was a subscription MMO. A very important thing that some need reminding of. One of the most common phrases I see on the forums is "I am a patron" or "I am a subscriber". Using this may had carries some weight when it was a subscription MMO but now the cash shop is king not a small monthly subscription. players need reminded of this.

    And then we get to the other issue I have noticed. The model Trion chose for Rift is one of access to all content with some vanity or grind reducers costing money. There's quite a few free to play MMOs out there and they usually have a subscription but they usually unlock stuff. This is where I believe it's coming from: those that don't research patron and assume it's like other F2P MMOs and you get something spectacular.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you can use the patron benefits they are very worth subscribing to and if you don't need them well, don't subscribe. "Simples". People say they do it to 'support Trion' but guess what the main way to 'support Trion' is to spend those credits in the cash shop.

    I was a little sceptical of the free to play announcement but after getting some details it sounded good. There's no reason to subscribe if you don't want the convenience boost. Great! Now, my issue arises when they add new features to placate patrons who don't need the boosts etc. but they HAVE to subscribe. It will get to some point where these 'little perks' will be so great that you'll be at a major disadvantage if you don't subscribe. That's not the model you chose and it should not turn into this.

    TL;DR: don't be lazy and read it.

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara Kadeth's Avatar
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    I do agree that they could give us a few credits each month that our patron subscription is active (for recurring billing only, not for those that just use credits to buy a patron pass since you can use a REX, thus only in game plat to do that.) Not a lot of credits but, even 100 per month would satisfy me. (That would mean a patron could get perhaps 2 significant (not obtainable by other means) items from the store per year off those credits.)

    It isn't enough to discourage us buying additional credits, but, it IS enough to know that Trion is giving us a nice "thank you for your continued patronage and support."

    If that doesn't work for them, perhaps a once a year Free item of choice ticket for the cash shop. Yes just one a year where we could have any one item free with 1 year subscription, be that paying for 1 year all at once or, having made 12 consecutive monthly payments or, 4 consecutive three month long subscriptions. Again ONLY if that is done via subscribing and not via patron's passes.

    People who use Plat to buy REX, then use those credits to buy patron passes might be a bit upset but, if they do that, the game is still free to play to them and, they do get the loyalty rewards.

    Some will want more but, a recurring token thank you is enough, I think.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple TheTailsEffect's Avatar
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    I don't think a credit stipend is essential to subbing a F2P game. Trion, like any business want to make money by no means do they WANT to alienate their playerbase. What would that achieve them, surely they are hoping the game lasts for years to come. That is the reality of it.

    The stipend did not stop me leaving LotRO, they had issues with it being billed every month or so and eventually it seemed as if you had to buy every bit of the game (Level 50 token!?)

    I think possibly some new incentives are required, the demand for this is clearly vocal. I hope they take this feedback and consider it at the very least.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Shattered's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTailsEffect View Post
    I don't think a credit stipend is essential to subbing a F2P game. Trion, like any business want to make money by no means do they WANT to alienate their playerbase. What would that achieve them, surely they are hoping the game lasts for years to come. That is the reality of it.

    The stipend did not stop me leaving LotRO, they had issues with it being billed every month or so and eventually it seemed as if you had to buy every bit of the game (Level 50 token!?)
    The stipend did not stop me leaving either, once they pulled something with the store I thought too egregious to support or even play the game again. I canceled and left the game and never looked back, save for one nostalgic ride through Bree-land and the Shire last year (and I may take another such ride- the world builders for LOTRO and the soundtrack were the best!). But I would not have stayed as long as I did or spent the money I did were it not for the stipend.
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  13. #13
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    I think some may have forgotten that Patrons get a 10% store discount. If you're not spending any money on things in the store I can see why you would want a stipend. Unfortunately they would take away the discount to give a stipend, which at this point I think would upset more people than would make happy.

    For me, it makes the money that I spend go further. I'm sure there are others that feel the same.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Default Patron resubs

    So I hadn't paid attention and paid the price for it, I patron subbed for another year in December due to the way my subscription was set up. For those of you who don't know, that is the same price I paid for SL. Now the same price I was getting the content and my yearly sub has turned into a white artifact I don't need and 4 warlord marks a day (what I got today). The 10% discount doesn't even pay for itself unless i spend 1k + real money in the auction house. I don't know if there are things that I get that non-patrons don't get cause I don't get to see what prices they pay.

    Long story short, there needs to be something 'added value' to subscriptions other than making subbing feel like a trion employee charity venture.

    Or at least some more content so my vials/notoriety/ect. is worth the sub.

    2c

  15. #15
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Kitasia's Avatar
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    Before I add my two cents in here is a penny. I believe everyone's thoughts and ideas are important, not just mine.

    I like my patron bonuses. They are actually why I stay subbed.

    The one thing I would love to see is gaining a higher percentage of loyalty for our subs, based one 1 month 6 months etc. Not for the in-store purchases but for the actual sub.

    Not that I would say no to every thing else mentioned. Though if they took away my 10% off I would say a big HECK NO to a stipend.

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