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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: I wonder - has anyone explained to trion why we feel betrayed?

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    Plane Touched Rianne's Avatar
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    Default I wonder - has anyone explained to trion why we feel betrayed?

    There was another ongoing argument in general chat about various things Trions done lately, least of which is the pay-to-play (to my understanding) event that's going on currently.
    During a conversation with someone, I started wondering - we've all cursed and moaned, and blamed trion, but has anyone actually said what we're feeling and thinking without hyperbole?

    I'll start by saying simply - I really like rift. I quit back in 2011 (my bad, i know), but my guild had quit, and i was lonely, etc. I came back just before F2P, and found that, despite my expectations that the game would be just as lonely, it was in fact quite fun. I found a new guild, although it took a few tries to find one that fit, and got to experience some really great things about the game.

    Theres a lot they've done right, in my opinion.

    - artifacts
    - dimensions
    - (relatively?) balanced pvp
    - decent raiding (as far as i can tell, im not overly experienced with other raiding games.)
    - some good quest lines pre-sl
    - pets and mounts

    Unfortunately, for me, the bad is, slowly, starting to outweigh the good. I feel like Trion is, slowly, putting less and less effort into the game, and simply milking us for all we're worth before abandoning us.

    I'll list a few of the examples that really stand out to me, in no particular order.

    - mounts that are lacking skins, but advertised as being special, without the special effects of the previous spectral mounts (the smoke etc)

    - constant influx of new pets and mounts, only to realize when you look closely that they're mostly just reskinned (sometimes badly) models, rather than unique efforts

    - Reusing content - the chronicles - and putting it out as new stuff. IT's not new. Not sure if maybe i misread the info on them, but when I tried the one I was expecting something more than the same chron with lvl 62 mobs. Disappointed was the simplest term i could come up with.
    Yes, i see the appeal of letting new players experience them as challenging content, and the need/want to add the sinister npc to each one, but the way you handled it was lackluster, at best.

    - Storm legion quest lines that, in some cases, felt again lacking in attention to detail. I realize this has nothing to do with F2P, but anyway

    - increasingly aggressive behavior with the store
    ----> Selling a black hellbug as limited edition, then reselling it a few weeks to a month later
    ----> same deal with the brown squirrel
    ----> Lock box gambling
    ----> a world event that leaves me feeling like the only way to participate in it is by paying.
    ----> Limited time promotional mounts. Sorry, but you'll never, EVER, get my $ asking me to spend 30$ on a single virtual item. How long, I wonder, till you re-advertise the kirin mounts you've sold recently, only available through purchased-only lockboxes?

    I'm pretty sure there have been other store promotions that went too far, but i can't think of them off the top of my head. The reason this bothers me - I want to spend money in your game because l feel you deserve it. At first, i thought your F2P model was excellent. Items/options like the bank vaults etc, and a # of other things, made me quite happy, and I was quite willing to spend $ on it. Have been all along, in fact.


    What is it that would make me spend $ and support the game?

    Simple - NEW stuff. Make me feel like my time is worth something to you, that you care about the game. Put a world event in, add the chance to get more of it by spending real life $, but don't block the ability to obtain stuff via ingame efforts too.

    New pets - stop reusing the frickin squirrel model! Its ugly, and outdated, and for the most part, shows a serious lack of effort, or even attention to detail. Two that stand out as excellent, on the other hand, are the fae squirrels. I'd totally pay $ for stuff like that. they're cute, and in their own way unique since they change each time you summon them.

    I also rather enjoy the two mech pets. Puppets, not so much, but ic an see the appeal for other people.
    More dimension items - we got some love last patch, and im grateful for that, but more stuff is always awesome. of the 8 rexes i've bought in the last 3 weeks (ingame, so giving trion even more $), 6 of them were spent on dimensions in some form.

    Problem is, over the last 2 or so months, i've begun to feel like your only concern is getting people to spend as much $ as possible in the shortest possible time. You've been pushing items of - imo - low quality, for absurdly high prices. Im' sure people will agree, and others will bash me, but I feel like my time in rift was a waste from the start. I always thought you were really passionate about the game, but then all these rift store things come along and i can't help but question it.

    And honestly? I know it's not Daglar or Dahanese - sorry, ic an't spell - who's in control of this. Im sure it's probably the ceo, or whoevers in profit management that's pushing all these deals, but ya wanna know what he's really doing, whoever he is?

    Driving your game into the ground. I don't think it'll thrive the way you've been treating it lately, and honestly you're just gonna continue ticking the cusotmer base off. Again, this is imo, but I'm a gamer, and a passionate one at that. I really, really want rift to succeed. I just dont' want to feel cheated while its doing it.

    ~ Katsyra

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara WriteThemWrong's Avatar
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    No, never. Congrats on creating a unique thread.

  3. #3
    Ascendant ilex011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rianne View Post
    There was another ongoing argument in general chat about various things Trions done lately, least of which is the pay-to-play (to my understanding) event that's going on currently.
    During a conversation with someone, I started wondering - we've all cursed and moaned, and blamed trion, but has anyone actually said what we're feeling and thinking without hyperbole?

    I'll start by saying simply - I really like rift. I quit back in 2011 (my bad, i know), but my guild had quit, and i was lonely, etc. I came back just before F2P, and found that, despite my expectations that the game would be just as lonely, it was in fact quite fun. I found a new guild, although it took a few tries to find one that fit, and got to experience some really great things about the game.

    Theres a lot they've done right, in my opinion.

    - artifacts
    - dimensions
    - (relatively?) balanced pvp
    - decent raiding (as far as i can tell, im not overly experienced with other raiding games.)
    - some good quest lines pre-sl
    - pets and mounts

    Unfortunately, for me, the bad is, slowly, starting to outweigh the good. I feel like Trion is, slowly, putting less and less effort into the game, and simply milking us for all we're worth before abandoning us.

    I'll list a few of the examples that really stand out to me, in no particular order.

    - mounts that are lacking skins, but advertised as being special, without the special effects of the previous spectral mounts (the smoke etc)

    - constant influx of new pets and mounts, only to realize when you look closely that they're mostly just reskinned (sometimes badly) models, rather than unique efforts

    - Reusing content - the chronicles - and putting it out as new stuff. IT's not new. Not sure if maybe i misread the info on them, but when I tried the one I was expecting something more than the same chron with lvl 62 mobs. Disappointed was the simplest term i could come up with.
    Yes, i see the appeal of letting new players experience them as challenging content, and the need/want to add the sinister npc to each one, but the way you handled it was lackluster, at best.

    - Storm legion quest lines that, in some cases, felt again lacking in attention to detail. I realize this has nothing to do with F2P, but anyway

    - increasingly aggressive behavior with the store
    ----> Selling a black hellbug as limited edition, then reselling it a few weeks to a month later
    ----> same deal with the brown squirrel
    ----> Lock box gambling
    ----> a world event that leaves me feeling like the only way to participate in it is by paying.
    ----> Limited time promotional mounts. Sorry, but you'll never, EVER, get my $ asking me to spend 30$ on a single virtual item. How long, I wonder, till you re-advertise the kirin mounts you've sold recently, only available through purchased-only lockboxes?

    I'm pretty sure there have been other store promotions that went too far, but i can't think of them off the top of my head. The reason this bothers me - I want to spend money in your game because l feel you deserve it. At first, i thought your F2P model was excellent. Items/options like the bank vaults etc, and a # of other things, made me quite happy, and I was quite willing to spend $ on it. Have been all along, in fact.


    What is it that would make me spend $ and support the game?

    Simple - NEW stuff. Make me feel like my time is worth something to you, that you care about the game. Put a world event in, add the chance to get more of it by spending real life $, but don't block the ability to obtain stuff via ingame efforts too.

    New pets - stop reusing the frickin squirrel model! Its ugly, and outdated, and for the most part, shows a serious lack of effort, or even attention to detail. Two that stand out as excellent, on the other hand, are the fae squirrels. I'd totally pay $ for stuff like that. they're cute, and in their own way unique since they change each time you summon them.

    I also rather enjoy the two mech pets. Puppets, not so much, but ic an see the appeal for other people.
    More dimension items - we got some love last patch, and im grateful for that, but more stuff is always awesome. of the 8 rexes i've bought in the last 3 weeks (ingame, so giving trion even more $), 6 of them were spent on dimensions in some form.

    Problem is, over the last 2 or so months, i've begun to feel like your only concern is getting people to spend as much $ as possible in the shortest possible time. You've been pushing items of - imo - low quality, for absurdly high prices. Im' sure people will agree, and others will bash me, but I feel like my time in rift was a waste from the start. I always thought you were really passionate about the game, but then all these rift store things come along and i can't help but question it.

    And honestly? I know it's not Daglar or Dahanese - sorry, ic an't spell - who's in control of this. Im sure it's probably the ceo, or whoevers in profit management that's pushing all these deals, but ya wanna know what he's really doing, whoever he is?

    Driving your game into the ground. I don't think it'll thrive the way you've been treating it lately, and honestly you're just gonna continue ticking the cusotmer base off. Again, this is imo, but I'm a gamer, and a passionate one at that. I really, really want rift to succeed. I just dont' want to feel cheated while its doing it.

    ~ Katsyra

    Well said. We could do a lot more with solid, cogent posts explaining how we think/feel in a rational manner, and lot less with the hyperbole, gloom-n-doom posts. We could also do with a lot less sarcastic responses to good posts like yours, in fact.
    Faeblight
    ilexx: lvl 60 High Elf Necromancer/Chloro
    RIFT 3.0 incoming soon... get ready for some surprises!
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    Helicopters? Tesla Coils? Skrillex?

  4. #4
    Shield of Telara WriteThemWrong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilex011 View Post
    Well said. We could do a lot more with solid, cogent posts explaining how we think/feel in a rational manner, and lot less with the hyperbole, gloom-n-doom posts. We could also do with a lot less sarcastic responses to good posts like yours, in fact.
    Not being sarcastic. Why not post it in one of the half dozen threads already on the topic? In fact, this should be locked soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rianne View Post
    There was another ongoing argument in general chat about various things Trions done lately, least of which is the pay-to-play (to my understanding) event that's going on currently.
    During a conversation with someone, I started wondering - we've all cursed and moaned, and blamed trion, but has anyone actually said what we're feeling and thinking without hyperbole?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannos
    While we understand that it is frustrating to read negative posts and threads, creating threads to "reply" to or otherwise discuss these threads is not constructive and typically results in more disruption.


    'not constructive and results in more disruption'. About sums this up.
    Last edited by WriteThemWrong; 11-29-2013 at 09:11 PM.

  5. #5
    Ascendant ilex011's Avatar
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    Don't know. Seems to me the OP's post was different in that it offered good, solid feedback. I think that's worthy of starting a thread to continue in that vein (hopefully, though we know that tends to not last long), instead of getting buried in the other negative threads. Could be wrong, we'll see where this ends up. /shrug
    Faeblight
    ilexx: lvl 60 High Elf Necromancer/Chloro
    RIFT 3.0 incoming soon... get ready for some surprises!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thitizen View Post
    Helicopters? Tesla Coils? Skrillex?

  6. #6
    Champion Beanster's Avatar
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    I got the same feelings, f'king casino game. Why the f they don't go to Nevada and open one? Sample in signature.

  7. #7
    Ascendant ilex011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beanster View Post
    I got the same feelings, f'king casino game. Why the f they don't go to Nevada and open one? Sample in signature.
    Yes, you say that often. Can you offer constructive feedback so this thread doesn't get moved or closed, though?
    Faeblight
    ilexx: lvl 60 High Elf Necromancer/Chloro
    RIFT 3.0 incoming soon... get ready for some surprises!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thitizen View Post
    Helicopters? Tesla Coils? Skrillex?

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser
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    There a few things I do not agree with the OP on but over all I thought her post was very constructive and that is something we lack on these forums. Now I would not go so far as to say I feel betrayed by Trion but some of their actions and decisions lately have disappointed me. This cashshop event is one of the latest examples. But the reusing content and calling/advertising it as new content is another. I do still think over all they are a good company and Rift is a good game but at same time there is definitely problems.

    Oh another gripe I just thought of is some of the recent wardrobe items. It is great they are coming up with new stuff for us to wear but when they don't even take the time to make them completely dyable it is frustrating. Though really you could apply this basic argument to a lot of things. Like taking the time to make actual new models and not just reskin after reskin.
    Last edited by Calliso; 11-29-2013 at 09:24 PM.

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    Plane Touched Rianne's Avatar
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    Bah. I'm really not interested in repeating the same crap over and over, or filling this up with that. IT's not that helpful - if you disagree wiht me, fine. explain why. If you agree, but because of different things, then explain that, too. making snap comparisons like that don't really help trion, because they're too easily brushed off as hyperbole or people attempting to troll, or simply responses that aren't thought out.

    Also, im fine with people thinking this should be locked. Free country and all that, but i posted it as my own thread because - imo - it wasn't one of the up-in-arms posts i've seen in the other threads. Thats not what i'm after, and honestly won't help trion much. I think i posted good points, but again that's just me.
    Also, it's not a response to a thread, but something iv'e been thinking about for a while. I've been unhappy with certain things trions been doing, but for a while i just *****ed to guildies about it. Now, im' trying another - possibly just as ineffective - route. Lol.

  10. #10
    Ascendant ilex011's Avatar
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    Well, I'd offer constructive feedback but it would be a reiteration of pretty much everything the OP said.
    I mentioned in another thread, though:

    "No, to say it didn't go smoothly with the customers would be a true understatement, heh. And yeah, I get that it sets a bad precedent. Trion from the start has always been a company that takes risks and does things their own way. It's how we ended up with the best F2P model on the market.

    Sometimes the risks work out great, sometimes they flop. I think it's safe to say this flopped.

    Daglar and the team have the interesting and probably ineffably stressful position of not only having to answer to us, the customers, but also to investors and financiers. They have to see things in a longitudinal way that we are not inclined to. I know they completely appreciate how weirdly passionate we are about their game. They get that. It's a matter of getting the balance right. I don't envy their position.

    I think the take-home message from all these threads about Mech Week indicate that the playerbase loves Trion's uniqueness and integrity as a company and are very invested in their brand and this game. I also see that the playerbase doesn't have a problem forking out tons of bucks for stuff, as long as it's presented in a way that doesn't undermine the integrity of the company that sets it apart from crappy F2P games like EQ2 and Aion, to begin with.

    That's really the heart of it. We could handle lockboxes if they contained items like the mount that were reskinned in a way to satisfy the people who actually enjoy the chancy nature of boxes. We want a way to get more items in-game and not just the store. That's going to be tough, but good lord- if we old weirdos can handle the F2P conversion (seriously- that was an EPIC thread of all sorts of bizarreness), I feel confident that Trion can find a way to satisfy us.

    Pretty sure they got the message as to how we feel about this latest experiment. "

    Which more or less sums up how I feel about it as well. I grew up on old school games but I accept that F2P and cash shops are the new game model. I don't like it, but I accept it. And who knows- perhaps new iterations of that model will surface as well. In fact, I know they will- it's just inevitable evolution. It may not always be a smooth ride but we're very fortunate to have the Rift team so accessible and interactive to the playerbase. That's unique in the gaming industry. The devs and CMs are just as passionate about making/maintaining the game as we are playing it.

    So I haven't given up hope that they will forge a way to satisfy their customers.
    Faeblight
    ilexx: lvl 60 High Elf Necromancer/Chloro
    RIFT 3.0 incoming soon... get ready for some surprises!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thitizen View Post
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    Plane Walker badradical's Avatar
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    there seems to be a general consensus floating around that trion will drive the game into the ground at the rate they're going with how they're running their shop. do i think they will? no, they're far from it. i assume people are always buying what they want. i don't understand why people are always talking about what they don't like. if you don't, either be quiet or give suggestions on how to fix a problem.

    and what's this about a casino? quit using stupid analogies. if you don't want to waste your money, stop buying lockboxes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilex011 View Post
    Yes, you say that often. Can you offer constructive feedback so this thread doesn't get moved or closed, though?
    Have you seen them to try sell any stuff that almost everybody would buy, even if it was cheap 'ish'. NO, all they do is sell you lottery tickets, LOTTERY TICKETS. That's why I am NOT going to put any more cash to this game.

    IF I PAY MONEY IS IT CREDITS OR ANY REAL CURRENCY I WANT TO KNOW WHAT I PURCHASE. SO TO BE CLEAR, MONEY PUT IN = SOMETHING WORTHWHILE IN RETURN, NOT A F'KING SORRY NO WIN THIS TIME TEXT RESULT.

  13. #13
    Ascendant ilex011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badradical View Post
    give suggestions on how to fix a problem.
    Quote for truth. I see Daglar posting that he wants exactly that, and very few people are giving it to him. Let's keep this thread for this. We've yelped and squawked about what we don't like and they get that. He was running back and forth in the F2P thread of Doom and Gnashing Teeth gathering our input as to what we liked/didn't like/wanted to see in the conversion, so I can absolutely vouch that they *do* listen and *want* that kind of thing.

    I see a *lot* of people using that to their advantage though, and they comment in a very negative way knowing it will be seen by the devs and/or Dahanese. This is not helpful. Constructive criticism is.
    Faeblight
    ilexx: lvl 60 High Elf Necromancer/Chloro
    RIFT 3.0 incoming soon... get ready for some surprises!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thitizen View Post
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  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    The lockboxes are the crux of the problem. It shows desire to 'arbitrage' the income of selling cash store items by forcing some buyers to purchase multiples of stuff they don't want to have a chance at something they do want. Regardless of wether or not someone calls it fun to gamble, it most certainly not the perferred choice of many of their potentialcustomers, why can they not also sell the items directly?

    As far as lazy content are concerned. Yeah that exactly what happens when the monetary incentive is based solely on getting quick sales as opposed to providing a quality product that generates repeat business.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched Rianne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badradical View Post
    there seems to be a general consensus floating around that trion will drive the game into the ground at the rate they're going with how they're running their shop. do i think they will? no, they're far from it. i assume people are always buying what they want. i don't understand why people are always talking about what they don't like. if you don't, either be quiet or give suggestions on how to fix a problem.

    and what's this about a casino? quit using stupid analogies. if you don't want to waste your money, stop buying lockboxes.
    That's what im' trying to do, personally. I may be overly invested in the game, but it's the only mmo i'm interested in currently, and it's not just an 'im playing it because it's all there is' moment for me. I'm interested in ESO when it comes out - got into the beta recently - but at the same time i'm not sure it'll be the game for me when it does get released.

    I like rift. I don't wanna log in 3 months from now and find that it's a shell of what it is today. Sometimes i feel like i'm going to, if they keep pushing certain things in the way they have been, without the balance. We need more balance, i think. Less stuff posted on the store to increase immediate sales - which i get in a sense - and more quality, thought out stuff.

    The pony pet they're offering right now is a decent example. It's different htan the other pets, as far as i can tell, and relatively well done from the preview. I'd be willing to buy that. Always willing to spend credits on dimension items, as i said, or storage, or things i can use w/o feeling like they're gimmick items. Does that make sense?

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