Another patch with nothing for PvP....

[Telnedra]

A lot of players tend to assume that only the content they play is popular. There's a bunch of reasons for this, but the biggest is that you mostly meet people in-game while you are doing things you enjoy doing. So if you PvP all the time, the people you meet are mostly gonna be PvPers. If you never PvP, you are rarely going to meet people who only PvP.

So if you know 20 people in-game, and 18 of them only PvP, it's reasonable for you to think that PvP is a huge part of the game. And if you know 20 people in the game, and only 2 of them PvP, it's reasonable to think it's pretty small.

Thinking about it some: The oft-used quip that the primary content in PvP is "other players" is legit, and there's only so much benefit you get from adding new "content", because fundamentally the content isn't nearly as important as the players you're playing against. And I think one of the big challenges is that PvP players are not at all a monolithic group. There are people for whom personal animosity and grudges are a big part of the fun, and people for whom sportsmanship and friendly rivalry are important, and I don't think they get along well.

Rift's model currently strongly favors "sportsmanship". There's no permanent teams, everyone gets merc'd sometimes, so if you are expecting to consistently play with one group of players and against another, that ain't happening. Which means that animosity is going to cripple you, but sportsmanship is going to be a good strategy. If you can /salute people for playing well when they're on the other team, you can work more effectively with them when they're on your team.

I think a lot of the PvP players who get a bad rep are from a tradition with a lot more trash talking and a lot less friendly rivalry, and I think it's a shame that people tend to judge the PvP community based on that. I've gotten to know a few pretty serious PvPers, and I think that the community as a whole is full of smart people who have legit complaints, and who get ignored because people have these ludicrous ideas of what "PvPers" are like.

agree with you ...good post. I play mostly PvE but do play PvP as well and have a good time with both types of play.

[zoar]

See? You guys are proving my point...."big baby," and "these people.". All you can do is label and call names during your "arguments."

That is exactly what I mean about the juvenile whines of PvPers. You guys act as if you're the center of the universe and if something YOU want affects us, well, that's just "part of the game."

I say I don't want that and I'm labeled a "big baby" and one of "those people."


You might want to try growing up a bit.

Its really not hard to look at posts like this and not figure out why this game is scratching by.

You People: PvE players who feel like PvP is not a legit aspect of any game or especially this one nor does it require regular maintenance and content . People who think this game would thrive without out warfronts and conquest. People who only want the game to play how they want it to play, even if that means watching it burn to the ground. People who don't realize that trion makes PvP only fixes.

This game is littered selfish pallydromes. The guys who left world of warcraft for Rift. Rift is simply a refugee camp for salty, selfish brats who wouldn't budge a inch if it meant they had to step out of the pve/rp.

Its funny how ironic your qouted post is to everything you post about around here.The same could be said at the majority of your pve vs pvp posts.

I don't see pvpers claiming this should be a pvp only game, and that pve players should go play another game. We simply ask for a bone. And when our community is near crippled from lack of attention YOU have no problems running your mouth.

At least folks like seebs can recognize the positives new content can bring to this game. And I personnally don't agree with 99% of what he pushes for. But he's not an idiot and he sees how good it can be.

Unlike you. Your are simply THAT blind and ignorant.



Congrats on being Trions target audiance 3 years ago. Thank you for carrying our game to greatness. Rift is perfect its been nothing but an uphill ride of enjoyment for all.

[DriftinARift]

I love how the first day of 2.5 they already said they know about the Current CQ and how they turned off pvp rewards but kept pve rewards on and brushed it off as a bug.

Its been a month and they still refuse to turn the pvp rewards on for pvpers end game content.

CQs still 10-25 min premade farm kill as kills only give small amounts of favor/p. Now it really does look like a vial milk until they are satisfied, then 2 months later, they will turn pvp rewards back on lol.

With out vials your going to struggle for any kind of pvp reward. I would of been happy today, for the stupid CQ "bug" from almost a month ago since 2.5 release to be fixed so people can do CQ and earn the amount they should for the hell hole and time spent in there. At this rate they are just eradicating all pvpers on purpose, not even 5v5s, come on devs, that is not tricky content for it to be delayed so long......release it already.

[dday]

Stop thinking PvP is the only thing in Rift and finally realize that each class, each soul, each ability has to be balanced around both. So while you're out calling PvEers spoiled babies, you are the one who seems to want 100% of the content generated directly towards you as opposed to a mix of PvE and PvP changes.



He just thinks everything is PvP-centric and refuses to believe that there is anything outside of it. He rants for days on end and has been for months...just ignore him.

shocker another pve hero comes out to attack me. I do both pvp and pve in the game. i have always had max pvp gear and completed all content raid wise until this latest patch. i have never had a sepc ruined because of pvp ever period. i have had specs altered and rotations changed but never effectiveness. I argue for effectiveness in both pvp and pve not simply one or the other.

trion has never put pvp first and i dont care if they dont i just want them to keep it in play. pre sl when this game was booming withmultiple pvp and pve shards people did both, top raiding guilds were on pvp servers, open world pvp was competitive, content was fresh and pve was competitive with new content all the time. the game took a turn for the worse when they kept pumping out the pve content(great i love pve) and stopped with the pvp. people got tired of being ignored and left the game. guilds started to fold, open world pvp colapsed and servers closed.

then we got SL, people flocked back, f2p hit servers were re born ect ect ect. pve is still great, pvp still ignored. players got bored of the same pvp and servers closed people left ect ect. do you people not see the trend?

for a games pop to do well you need both pvp and pve changes to keep things fresh. rr you of all people should know this considering there are like 2 guilds left in pve that compete, a lot of the good pvers i knew (im sure you know them too) were also very good pvpers and left the game because of that even with the good pve.

there are 3 types of players
pvp only (eff dragons)
pve only( eff pvp)
people like me who like both

by ignoring pvp you are pissing off 2/3 of the types of players and that is the reason why this game is where it is. if you cant see that then you are blind.

[DriftinARift]

I love the "stop thinking pvp is the only content" Coming from someone who does nothing in rift other then tanking hardcore end game raid content. Come on RR that comment was hilarious coming from you, as you yourself does not do any content in rift other then hardcore end game raid content.

Same could be said for you "pve hardcore end game raid content is the minority and not the only thing to do in rift" Biased, biased devs=killing a large portion of the community off.

PVP content is cheap, easy to create. Daglar re did few warfronts like it was lazy mans work in a weekend, you cant release a non reward giving 5v5 map......really?? It does not even make sense anymore.


FYI RR, Most end game pvpers do both raid and pvp, most were hardcore raiders pre sl like yourself, but don't have that time anymore so they pvp and open world pve, stop hating on a certain part of rifts community, because you don't like that type of content.

Again majority of rift population=causal pve/pvp/dim lovers and open world lovers. like only few guilds on NA and EU do hardcore raiding, most are raid loggers and don't even play rift anymore

[zoar]

A lot of players tend to assume that only the content they play is popular. There's a bunch of reasons for this, but the biggest is that you mostly meet people in-game while you are doing things you enjoy doing. So if you PvP all the time, the people you meet are mostly gonna be PvPers. If you never PvP, you are rarely going to meet people who only PvP.

So if you know 20 people in-game, and 18 of them only PvP, it's reasonable for you to think that PvP is a huge part of the game. And if you know 20 people in the game, and only 2 of them PvP, it's reasonable to think it's pretty small.

Thinking about it some: The oft-used quip that the primary content in PvP is "other players" is legit, and there's only so much benefit you get from adding new "content", because fundamentally the content isn't nearly as important as the players you're playing against. And I think one of the big challenges is that PvP players are not at all a monolithic group. There are people for whom personal animosity and grudges are a big part of the fun, and people for whom sportsmanship and friendly rivalry are important, and I don't think they get along well.

Rift's model currently strongly favors "sportsmanship". There's no permanent teams, everyone gets merc'd sometimes, so if you are expecting to consistently play with one group of players and against another, that ain't happening. Which means that animosity is going to cripple you, but sportsmanship is going to be a good strategy. If you can /salute people for playing well when they're on the other team, you can work more effectively with them when they're on your team.

I think a lot of the PvP players who get a bad rep are from a tradition with a lot more trash talking and a lot less friendly rivalry, and I think it's a shame that people tend to judge the PvP community based on that. I've gotten to know a few pretty serious PvPers, and I think that the community as a whole is full of smart people who have legit complaints, and who get ignored because people have these ludicrous ideas of what "PvPers" are like.

I have played Rift for about 3 years, and not once have I ever thought it was the largest part and of this game. I never imagined that my 20 friends online were because PvP is popular.


I do however know the importance of a good balance between content.

At F2p release I made a guild on seastone for new pvp players. Free bags, mounts, bank acsess, the works. I had over 100 active people at one point. Of 100 or so people I think 8 or so made it to level 60 and even less still play. To me, that's a sign somthing is wrong and needs to be fixed.


The funny part is, VERY rarely did I ever have to respond to gankers and griefers like people here claim happens all the time.

[Persephore]

A lot of players tend to assume that only the content they play is popular. There's a bunch of reasons for this, but the biggest is that you mostly meet people in-game while you are doing things you enjoy doing. So if you PvP all the time, the people you meet are mostly gonna be PvPers. If you never PvP, you are rarely going to meet people who only PvP.

So if you know 20 people in-game, and 18 of them only PvP, it's reasonable for you to think that PvP is a huge part of the game. And if you know 20 people in the game, and only 2 of them PvP, it's reasonable to think it's pretty small.

Thinking about it some: The oft-used quip that the primary content in PvP is "other players" is legit, and there's only so much benefit you get from adding new "content", because fundamentally the content isn't nearly as important as the players you're playing against. And I think one of the big challenges is that PvP players are not at all a monolithic group. There are people for whom personal animosity and grudges are a big part of the fun, and people for whom sportsmanship and friendly rivalry are important, and I don't think they get along well.

Rift's model currently strongly favors "sportsmanship". There's no permanent teams, everyone gets merc'd sometimes, so if you are expecting to consistently play with one group of players and against another, that ain't happening. Which means that animosity is going to cripple you, but sportsmanship is going to be a good strategy. If you can /salute people for playing well when they're on the other team, you can work more effectively with them when they're on your team.

I think a lot of the PvP players who get a bad rep are from a tradition with a lot more trash talking and a lot less friendly rivalry, and I think it's a shame that people tend to judge the PvP community based on that. I've gotten to know a few pretty serious PvPers, and I think that the community as a whole is full of smart people who have legit complaints, and who get ignored because people have these ludicrous ideas of what "PvPers" are like.

Let me start out by saying I love PvP in MMOs. It's always the content/feature I fall back on when I'm bored of everything else, and it can usually keep me interested in the game.

However, in recent years, PvP across almost any MMO I've played is incredibly boring and stale. The only one that wasn't? Darkfall. It was a pretty bad game, but at least almost everyone playing it wanted to PvP. I think this is the problem in modern MMOs, especially of the themepark variety, and this is the problem the developers face. They can dump resources into PvP content, but the CORE of PvP content is... the players!

The problem I've personally noticed is players care a whole lot less about actual PvP and a whole lot less about rewards. Rift has really let this shine clear as day in two prime examples:

1. PvP Rifts. These were an epic fail for several reasons, but really the most prominent reason was because players didn't really PvP. There might be a couple skirmishes, but for the most part the Rifts were played for the rewards, NOT for the PvP.

2. Conquest. This had amazing potential, but it's falling short of that potential because of the same reason. I would argue it's less a problem with Trion or the content and more a problem with the players. The majority of people playing Conquest are doing it for the buffs and for the rewards. They're not doing it to PvP, and that's why people say it's "more PvE than PvP." They generally care about the reward for Conquest, not for the epic battles that COULD happen. That's why players go in circle and play cat/mouse.

These are only two examples for Rift. The problem is very evident in other MMOs, one that particularly comes to mind is Warhammer Online. The primary "PvP" in that game was trading keeps to earn Renown and PvP currency for gear. Only after players were geared did they begin to care about the actual PvP (and then the power balance was so bad that newbies quit). This is the same epidemic in other MMOs like Rift, WoW, DCUO, and numerous other themepark games.

Anytime you REWARD players for PvP, it's going to become more about the reward and less about the PvP. Players will ALWAYS find ways to "cheat" the system (like trading keeps, or nodes in Conquest) in order to attain the reward the quickest. However, if you don't reward PvP, it can become stale and greatly limits the audience. The problem is, would PvPers rather have REAL PvP but a smaller audience, or a larger audience that doesn't really care about PvPing.

That's why in games like Darkfall PvP was fun and entertaining. The game was horrible, but the PvP gave a genuine adrenaline rush. This is because it was CENTERED around providing PVP. The rewards weren't on an individual level, they were on a community level (like a guild owning an outpost). With a game like Rift, they can't really provide that kind of reward, the only rewards they can provide for the most part is on an individual level.

I'm not saying this applies to all PvPers. There's definitely some passionate PvPers in Rift that care about genuine PvP. The problem is, they're PvP against those who only want the rewards, like in Conquest. If they took the rewards out, the amount of players in Conquest would definitely diminish immensely, but then those in Conquest would be those that actually want to PvP.

It all comes down to one simple fact: You can't force players to PvP. You can't force them to be PvPers, and to have that PvP nature. Most players in MMOs these days don't care about PvP and generally most never will. If they try to force them (as is the case with Conquest) then it's only going to backfire. The PvP community wants more content, but the problem is Trion will provide that content to try to introduce more players to PvP, but they won't be there to PvP.

THIS is why I think dimension PvP is so beautiful and could DEFINITELY save Rift's PVP. It won't really reward players for participating, but it'll allow those that WANT to PvP an insane amount of variety in PvPing.

P.S. I'm sorry if I generalized too much. In no way did I mean to offend any fellow PvPers, this of course is all my opinion that I've noticed over years of PvPing in MMOs. If I offended you, I apologize.

[dday]

I have played Rift for about 3 years, and not once have I ever thought it was the largest part and of this game. I never imagined that my 20 friends online were because PvP is popular.


I do however know the importance of a good balance between content.

At F2p release I made a guild on seastone for new pvp players. Free bags, mounts, bank acsess, the works. I had over 100 active people at one point. Of 100 or so people I think 8 or so made it to level 60 and even less still play. To me, that's a sign somthing is wrong and needs to be fixed.


The funny part is, VERY rarely did I ever have to respond to gankers and griefers like people here claim happens all the time.

I could count the number of players that I played with at launch on one hand that still play this game.

[zoar]

Stop thinking PvP is the only thing in Rift and finally realize that each class, each soul, each ability has to be balanced around both. So while you're out calling PvEers spoiled babies, you are the one who seems to want 100% of the content generated directly towards you as opposed to a mix of PvE and PvP changes.



He just thinks everything is PvP-centric and refuses to believe that there is anything outside of it. He rants for days on end and has been for months...just ignore him.

I rant days on end. You would to if the tables were turned.

No one here wants 100% of the content.

**** RR we woould settle for 10% of the content updates.

I'm willing to bet my toon that a " even mix of pvp and pve content" would result in less dday , azabar, and zoar posts to ignore. Right now (or ever in the past) that's simply not the case.

[dday]

I rant days on end. You would to if the tables were turned.

No one here wants 100% of the content.

**** RR we woould settle for 10% of the content updates.

I'm willing to bet my toon that a " even mix of pvp and pve content" would result in less dday , azabar, and zoar posts to ignore. Right now (or ever in the past) that's simply not the case.

haha look at my post history. I think I had like 100 posts pre sl and they were all questions about warrior because the game was awesome. I didn't start posting until the end of pre sl about getting new content pvp wise because I always assumed it was coming. I never complain about pve because it's always been great to me

[DriftinARift]

haha look at my post history. I think I had like 100 posts pre sl and they were all questions about warrior because the game was awesome. I didn't start posting until the end of pre sl about getting new content pvp wise because I always assumed it was coming. I never complain about pve because it's always been great to me

I would love to see RR put his money where is mouth is, for him to do pvp and other aspects of rift. But no he will only do 1 content, and pick on everyone else who is not a hardcore raider, and this is the person devs will listen to.

makes perfect sense lets create content for 1 type of person, while we let him harass our other customers that are the paying majority for doing content he does not do, then he has the nerve to tell other people that there is other content in rift.

[Raistlinxx]

Being 100% honest here and not bashing anyone or any group of people.
This game truly does cater to the PVE crowd far more than the PvP crowd.
This has been true since launch and in my eyes is not disputable.

That being said, i am a pvp players, in every MMO, FPS, ect ect That i play.
If there are people to beat, im there to beat them. Id honestly rather play online chess than do any raid in any mmo.
Im sure there are many other that share this mentality.

This difference in Trions player focus has caused many pvp minded players to leave their game over the years, myself included. Some stuck along longer than others. Most bailed with Storm Legion because it was a blatant insult to the pvp community.

The truth about the MMO scene today though is that DAOC is outdated and its servers are low population because players don't understand templates anymore or want to grind RR on a very outdated game. Aside from DAOC, instanced PvP has been beaten to death to the point where its no longer fun. Warfronts / Battlegrounds / Skirmishes / Arenas, you name it and its been ground into utter garbage by the major MMO's that are available to us today. Im basicly tired of it.

But there's hope. ESO , from beta testing and without breaking NDA, is the game i have been waiting for as my PvP mecca. It is the new DAOC, regardless of what people bashing the game are saying, in all honestly they probably couldn't make it to Cyrodil (lvl 10)in the 3 day test because the game is slow leveling and ACTUALLY DIFFICULT, unlike every other MMO now a days which cater to the super casual. So problem solved? Awesome Game to Play built for people like myself? Win?

Well Not quite yet. Sadly i shot up with the beta but like a junkie in rehab my fix has been taken away from me, and im left craving and wanting more. All i can do is spam check my inbox for another beta invitation which is a horrible feeling. So where does this leave me?

Well since i wont have my dream game for atleast another 3-4 months, this leaves a void for me. A void that i have been filling hopping between every game ive ever played and rolling new characters trying to find something comparable or even enjoyable to do. And yes, even after the full deletion of all my characters, i have a little warrior hoping around how in Rift again killing the low level masses.

This gap is giving Rift a chance to sway some people like myself back to their game, if only for 3-4 months, its still better than nothing. If they give some viable pvp options outside of empty promises im sure many in my situation would stick to Rift a bit longer. Or even play it on the side once their chosen game launches.

Remember this is all my honest opinion.

~Harming

[zoar]

haha look at my post history. I think I had like 100 posts pre sl and they were all questions about warrior because the game was awesome. I didn't start posting until the end of pre sl about getting new content pvp wise because I always assumed it was coming. I never complain about pve because it's always been great to me

Most people don't know this but I was I actually was world 3rd akylios kill. Had full relics in 2011 before I became friends with squabsquad and started pvping only. I had a few friends in maximation that quit pve for pvp too.

And then was considered PvE prime time to be honost.

I love PvE in this game. But I love PvP more.

**** to this day I still jimp on the twitch streams and show my support for raiders. Rarely is that support returned.

[Pallydrome]

I'd be interested in the details.

.

Affliction warlock, retribution paladin, and arms warrior are three that come to mind back when I played.

The forums would fill with PvP'ers whining about how OP each class was and they got hit so hard with the nerf bat, nobody wanted them in raids any more.

[dday]

I would love to see RR put his money where is mouth is, for him to do pvp and other aspects of rift. But no he will only do 1 content, and pick on everyone else who is not a hardcore raider, and this is the person devs will listen to.

makes perfect sense lets create content for 1 type of person, while we let him harass our other customers that are the paying majority for doing content he does not do, then he has the nerve to tell other people that there is other content in rift.

I just despise people who only care about one side of the game is the reason why this game is where it is. pvp players can be just as bad when they complain about stuff and ignore the pve implications.