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Thread: It Needs to be Said Again

  1. #61
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    I'd like to see one melee unfriendly fight in Storm Legion experts.
    The dungeons in general have less melee friendly encounters than the raids, funny enough. I would say every single T1 raid encounter is extremely melee friendly.

    Regarding the OP, it is presented a bit crudely, but people crying "elitist" should realize this isn't about elitism. It's about self-importance, for every member of the group. If you join a dungeon group and aren't pulling your weight you are wasting the time of four other people, especially when you get to experts, they are not in the game just for exploration, though I'm sure you can find a guild who will treat them as such. Likewise if you solo queue and complain when the tank goes too slow or the group hits the enrage timer (yes this is possible) you should have queued with a guild group. Neither mindset is more important than the other, and there are more than just those two.

  2. #62
    Champion of Telara RivenDusk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anasatsudo View Post
    Support role does not mean support healer.

    My main.. pve character, is a dom/sc mage for crowd control primarily, and can do some decent AE damage when able.
    ^ This is totally true. Take the Archon for instance. The basic tenants of that soul is providing buffs to damage and health stats, as well as debuffing enemies. It is neither a healing soul nor is it a true damage soul, even though many of its abilities come packaged with a damaging mechanic.

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Currly View Post
    how about 2, 4th and 5th bosses UBF wow, really, that was your contribution to this thread?
    2nd is melee friendly (basically everyone fully stacks on the tank)
    5th is not unfriendly - you have to move more but totally doable - still ranged have it way easier. Really takes a little practice and you can have it flawless.
    4th is the harder as melee but also doable, if you can pvp you can move w/ the boss too.
    Last edited by xxs; 10-30-2013 at 03:43 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxs View Post
    2nd is melee friendly (basically everyone fully stacks on the tank)
    5th is not unfriendly - you have to move more but totally doable - still ranged have it way easier. Really takes a little practice and you can have it flawless.
    4th is the harder as melee but also doable, if you can pvp you can move w/ the boss too.
    The point was never "doable" it was "melee friendly" I would describe that as require no additional mechanics to ranged or melee. Here's a thought, when you're wrong, say something like, "well I guess that is true. My bad"

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Currly View Post
    upon closer examination there are several misconceptions. "being prepared" means knowing how to play at least 1 ranged spec for fights that are not melee friendly. Understanding or being able to switch to adds when needed. Not dying to the first mechanic over and over. not queing as heals, when you have never healed or even read guides. Playing builds that help and contribute to the group, ie switching between aoe and single target builds for long trash pulls, or playing a build that can contribute well to either.Not queing as a tank when you have never seen the fights before.

    I have seen people throwing 6k dps numbers around, I personally don't care if you can only do 4k ST. If you don't pull mobs, and survive most mechanics, good enough.

    for those who have stated "400 hit and 1200 main stat is all that is required, deal with it" It's 300 hit Einstein. Deal with that.

    To those who say "the people who need to understand this will never read it" I agree, but you did and you have a vote kick so maybe you were the one I wanted to read it.

    so the "elitist" bar isn't very elite after all. It simply is "even if you aren't a grown up, when you are with grown ups, grow up a little" No orange slices, there is a score, and no participation trophies, if everyone is special then no one is special. Cool names don't kill mobs. And to all bleeding hearts, tough love works, so toughen up
    Well, first of all, you can melee every fight in SL. Some fights it's a little harder and requires a little more attention to stay out of things, but entirely possible. Now yes, if someone is dieing to the same mechanic more than a couple times in a row after being told, a boot is sometimes in order. Also, yes, I do agree you should be able to fulfill the role you queued as.

    As for it being your first time in the dungeon and tanking though. Nothing wrong with that. I mean, really, you can't level as tank but you can hit 60 and get crafted gear and be Expert ready as a tank. Even if it's your first time in the dungeon, oh well. How do you think we did it at SL launch? We went in there with crafted gear not having seen the content before. Guess what? We got through it. (Yes I was there and did this, was 60 the Friday after SL Launch, Expert geared that weekend)

    Glad to see you are not elitist about DPS numbers at least as most of the people that say the things you do are.

    Ah yes, it is 300, sorry. I have been too busy helping guildies get raid ready I have had 400 on the brain. Does not help I have been sick the past 2 weeks and moved this past weekend. Mistake was made, the point still stands though.

    Yeah, I did and I have a vote kick, but you won't see me running with PuGs either because I know what that means and I avoid it. Friends and Guildies only please.

    You still sound like an elitist prick.
    Last edited by Lathais; 10-30-2013 at 05:39 PM.
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  6. #66
    Champion of Telara Silverangel69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeCreaux View Post
    Raid-geared players can be the biggest drama queens in random queue.

    The PUG was so strong it obliterated mobs, whole run took minutes. My bard heals were doing almost all the healing, leaving nothing on the meter for the "world first" healer. He raged and raged and raged, non-stop. He whispered me, emoted at me, tried to vote kick me, the entire dungeon, which I completely ignored.
    This happened to me too when I queued support with pyro-chloro, except the egotistical healer just up and dropped group. The off-heals only reduced my DPS about 20%. Seriously? If someone queues support, then they can play support how they want.

    Don't yell at me to be 100% DPS unless it's a real DPS race (and not the entire dungeon is a DPS race based solely on your attitude), in which case just explaining the mechanic should work fine.
    Last edited by Silverangel69; 10-30-2013 at 05:54 PM.

  7. #67
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    Ok so i am a T1 geared 15k + dps ( being lazy) .... so OP by that, i shouldnt have had the best time in a expert i have had in a long time wiping repeated for 1hour and 30 mins teaching 3 fresh players on their 1st ever SL expert ?

    come on .. thats what the game is about its about the experience of the things you do i will remember that run far longer than that guild run we steam rolled in 10mins and i topped the charts

    The help you can offer as an experience player to PuG's is worth more than 50 dungeon runs if you take 10mins out of your precious time to explain steps, by the time the run was done the 3 said people had a new spec each to use and went from pulling 3k - 4k dps to upwards of 7k.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Currly View Post
    Every couple of months or so, as newer players reach max level, it needs to be hashed once again, what is expected of you in a Random Expert. So here we go yet again

    First understand, you have entered a public group, and by selecting DPS, Tank, or Heals, you are stating to the public, that you are ready to uphold your basic responsibility in performing those roles. If you select Support, you are stating that while you will dps, you are available to do support heals for a specific fight where the healer maybe over extended. The public is not there for you to experiment, to carry you, or to teach you. THAT is what a guild is for. If you decided to start your own guild with a couple of your friends, that's a YOU problem. That is not a reason to expect others to hold your hand.

    To those who say "we were all noobs once" True. But most of us learned with guildies, who by helping us in return got better players in their guild.

    To those who say "Helping people helps the game" I strongly disagree. do you honestly expect these players to get geared up on the backs of others and then start randomly helping others? Far more likely they will reach a wall where they can no longer supple at the teat of other players and move on to the next flavor of the month game. If they joined a guild a path would be there for them.

    Randoms will NOT get you end game ready. You need to grind Rep, and Zone currency, something you CAN do alone, and a far more productive use of your time. An hour of rep grinding doing dailies will return you enough to buy at least 1 solid piece and 1st upgrade. Where as random ques can take 20 minutes plus and when you are kicked for being ill prepared, that's another 20, and there is no guarantee to even get a drop for your class.

    Those looking for a fast lane to end game, may I suggest Xbox. this is an MMO, and by definition, a game where grinding is required.

    Show some respect for the people spending their time in randoms too. If you are unclear or unsure of something say so before you wipe the group. I am far more likely to help someone who asks for it, then someone who flat expects it.

    If your young and excited, pretend the adults let you sit at the big boy table, and act like you want to stay there.

    I have spent hours helping people who ask for it, but I have zero time for people who think they can just jump on my back
    Well then remind me not to run with you in the future. I actually choose not to be in a guild. I don't like being in one but...Lucky me I'm a nice person and have never been chewed out for not knowing a fight because of that. I'm willing to pay attention and learn. Yes there are many newer players who get defensive when told what to do but not all of us aren't like that. I'd say not being a patient person is a YOU problem because not ALL of us are comfortable being in a guild to learn the dungeons that way and we shouldn't have to be. You play how you want. So great for you that you learned in a guild but when you think of it, rather you meet people for the first time or you already know them, you're STILL learning how to do something from someone else. Lol way to make yourself sound like an elitist ****** on the forums.
    Last edited by MiladyMalady; 10-30-2013 at 06:39 PM.

  9. #69
    Rift Disciple Cocoawolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa3 View Post
    That is your opinion. Hope it works for you, but don't count on it here. I pay to play the way I feel like, not the way you think I should. Sometimes I go random just to watch others and see how they do. I agree with the other comments, you should stick to going with your guild, if they think the same way.
    Exactly ^, it's a game we all play it, we enjoy it and we all have every right to have fun, not rise up to the expectations of others. Experience is the best teacher, not guild mates. Not everyone revolves their lives around a guild on here, so there will always be pugs you either deal with it or you find a way around it, there's always other ways you just have to look for them.

    Sure enough, true a lot of people can be a little annoying at times, nobody is perfect. If you want them to all know what they're doing beforehand, ask for trion to put up a guide for 60's on expert dungeons, how to handle mobs etc etc -Or something along the likes of that, that would be more productive.

    When I was new to MMO's I got bashed, thrown around and trolled like a ton of other people, there were no "expect this" boards with a golden wall of text for me to read and learn things. I despised guilds, the ones I joined were bad and the majority of the people would kick you out just because your gearscore was 2 points below their expectation limit. If you want people to not jump on your back and be carried, go join WoW (if it isn't where ya came from...) and scold them like they do, because that is why I left it, jerks like that in the community who think everyone below them should RISE up to their expectations and play the game how they want them to play it. Now that I know there are people who expect others to rise up to their standards, I definetely won't be doing expert dungeons, not because I don't know how to do them but because of people like that being in them.

    Sorry I'm harsh, but it burns you after you've been around people like that for so long who expect you to kiss their rear ends and rise up to their standards because you aren't ' good enough' for them.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Currly View Post
    how about 2, 4th and 5th bosses UBF wow, really, that was your contribution to this thread?
    WoW, Really that is your only example? I've NEVER had to switch roles in UBF or even E-UBF and I'm running a 61 NB consistently pulling my weight doing NO LESS than 7k on ANY given fight.
    Last edited by HomeAwayFromHome; 10-30-2013 at 06:54 PM.
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  11. #71
    Rift Disciple superhbman's Avatar
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    What's with all the cries about elitism? It reminds me of the crying that MMORPGs are being dumbed down to accommodate lazy players (not accusing anyone of being lazy, but some posts can be seen like that).

    Currly is basically asking for people to not take expert dungeons lightly, so I don't understand why people are being so defensive. Sure you can disagree with how he voices his message, but I think his core message is at least worth considering.

    My point is that you will be playing with other people, and not everyone agrees with you (and that goes for both / all parties). People like Currly wants a smooth dungeon run and expects people to be the least bit prepared and committed in doing so. There are people who want to enjoy the game with no interest in getting the most out of their virtual avatar in terms of numbers. I think this is made abundantly clear in this thread so far.

    When playing with other people, tolerance goes both ways. Understand and accept that not everyone shares your interest and mindset, and be prepared to tolerate people, and make yourself tolerable to others.

    Yes it's true that people like Currly takes the game more seriously than others, because they derive their fun from playing their virtual avatars to the maximum potential. Just because you don't share that sentiment, doesn't mean that you are justified in accusing him of elitism. If you don't agree with him, simply say that you don't agree with him and explain why, rather than accusing him of being wrong for the crime of not agreeing with you.

    Let it be said that we understand that there are people who don't take the game as seriously and Currly does, and we do not decry you for that. All we are trying to say is that this is our idea of fun, and we would like to have fun as much as you want to. We just disagree on what that "fun" is, so we would like to reach an agreement.
    Last edited by superhbman; 10-30-2013 at 07:08 PM. Reason: grammar
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  12. #72
    Ascendant Techie Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Currly View Post
    how about 2, 4th and 5th bosses UBF wow, really, that was your contribution to this thread?
    Seems like you ignored my lengthy posts on Page 1 and 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    If players can at least put up 7-8k Single Target DPS while not inside of a healing role, I'm fine with them in the dungeon (9-10k is much preferred though!). There is absolutely no way a player cannot hit the 7k mark even in complete blues/greens from just hitting 60, let alone dungeon gear. We had many players hitting 4-5k single target at level 50 in Infernal Dawn.

    The support flag in a five man should be altered towards support healing, but at least these days a viable bard if played correctly can pull fairly decent numbers if they do not waste their time healing when unnecessary, and pyrochon or harbichon blows the doors off of DPS anyway.

    I think a better theme for Rift dungeons is:

    Be willing to help the group out.

    Don't come in with the mindset that you only play one spec or one way and that's the only way you'll play.

    This door swings both ways, don't be a jerk or elitist towards new players who need some explanations of mechanics either. Helping someone out with mechanics or giving them a suggestion for a spec (such as saying "Hey, check out the forums for that _____ spec) is going to make that player better without holding their hand or dragging them through on your back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    I believe everyone deserves to have fun at the game. Absolutely everyone. But I also believe absolutely everyone needs to keep an open mind about how they're playing and be willing to try new things. Just because they love playing spec A and haven't tried anything else doesn't mean they will hate spec B.

    Encouraging players to go on the forums and look at guides or ask around is all about how its done too. I would never tell a PUG player "l2play n00b go get 61 ____ and stop ******* up our dungeon". I would be more courteous and tell them they could pull more if they looked into a guide and what specs to look for. Often times, we actually pull people through the dungeon anyway even if they're underperforming, so we can talk to them through the run.


    As far as that "contribution to this thread" it was a joke of sorts, but 4th and 5th bosses are easily melee friendly on Unhallowed Boneforge.

    On boss four just kite around in a circle with the tank, as long as you're always to the outside you're going to have a hundred percent up time on the boss. If you fail at strafing, you can always kill the wisps so no one else has to sub 50%.

    Boss five the melee range is extended out from the boss by about 15-20 meters. You can easily stand in melee and dodge the green pools as they shoot out from the boneforge itself.


  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverangel69 View Post
    This happened to me too when I queued support with pyro-chloro, except the egotistical healer just up and dropped group. The off-heals only reduced my DPS about 20%. Seriously? If someone queues support, then they can play support how they want.

    Don't yell at me to be 100% DPS unless it's a real DPS race (and not the entire dungeon is a DPS race based solely on your attitude), in which case just explaining the mechanic should work fine.
    I don't do PvE anymore, but when I did I had raid gear for any role. I could tank like it was nothing or put up crazy dps numbers.

    But if those roles are handled by the players who queued for them, I'd much rather run a hybrid battle bard and have some fun. It puts up reasonable DPS, can toggle guardian phase and take aggro in a crisis, can fire off 5 spot heals, and of course keep the group topped off, buffed, and moving fast.

    Regular players don't give a care if support runs support, they just want to have a good time and succeed. That's what it's all about.

  14. #74
    Rift Disciple Cocoawolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superhbman View Post
    What's with all the cries about elitism? It reminds me of the crying that MMORPGs are being dumbed down to accommodate lazy players (not accusing anyone of being lazy, but some posts can be seen like that).

    Currly is basically asking for people to not take expert dungeons lightly, so I don't understand why people are being so defensive. Sure you can disagree with how he voices his message, but I think his core message is at least worth considering.

    My point is that you will be playing with other people, and not everyone agrees with you (and that goes for both / all parties). People like Currly wants a smooth dungeon run and expects people to be the least bit prepared and committed in doing so. There are people who want to enjoy the game with no interest in getting the most out of their virtual avatar in terms of numbers. I think this is made abundantly clear in this thread so far.

    When playing with other people, tolerance goes both ways. Understand and accept that not everyone shares your interest and mindset, and be prepared to tolerate people, and make yourself tolerable to others.

    Yes it's true that people like Currly takes the game more seriously than others, because they derive their fun from playing their virtual avatars to the maximum potential. Just because you don't share that sentiment, doesn't mean that you are justified in accusing him of elitism. If you don't agree with him, simply say that you don't agree with him and explain why, rather than accusing him of being wrong for the crime of not agreeing with you.

    Let it be said that we understand that there are people who don't take the game as seriously and Currly does, and we do not decry you for that. All we are trying to say is that this is our idea of fun, and we would like to have fun as much as you want to. We just disagree on what that "fun" is, so we would like to reach an agreement.
    well I see your point there, and no we are not "Crying", we are stating our opinions just as they stated theirs. otherwise pretty much everyone would be concidered as crying no matter what they said lol, but the reason I get irritated with it, and of course I do, is because instead of being productive with suggestions on how it could help the people become better, they said for us to join a guild and learn the stuff first. I may be taking things wrong, forgive me if I am, but I don't do guilds because of stated sentence in other post

    It came off as... the OP wanted everyone to go through guilds in order to join expert dungeons, not everyone does guilds, not everyone is that social either, (Yeah, not that social, it may be an MMO but that doesn't mean people who aren't that social, don't play it) so they do pugs where you have random people from who knows where. Joining a pug, you're asking for trouble, I know I am when I join them, because people are too afraid to speak up and say "I'm new", I have, sometimes I get bashed by people even though it's a non-expert standard dungeon, and it causes most people to have a different outlook about it.

    Thank you for clarifying your version of fun, it makes more sense now, they came off as an elitist because of several things, such as saying the newbies need to join guilds, accusing others of sucking on their teat when it's a 'PUG' - that was the first mistake, expecting others to know things in a PUG. Stay in a guild if you don't want people to wipe your groups and be very frustrating, I guarantee a lot will, they don't read what you say, and there are some very careless people out there who do leech off others, but PUGs are where the majority of them will go. It is a mistake expecting otherwise.

    Now what would lighten stuff up, is some awesome suggestions on maybe sites and tips on expert dungeons and stuff, they did suggest reputation and what-not, but maybe some guides, builds, etc for the people who aren't aware ;)

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeAwayFromHome View Post
    WoW, Really that is your only example? I've NEVER had to switch roles in UBF or even E-UBF and I'm running a 61 NB consistently pulling my weight doing NO LESS than 7k on ANY given fight.
    Nightblade is ranged. great example

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