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Thread: Can we get a raid finder please,

  1. #16
    Champion of Telara Veldan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    Sending 20 random people into Frozen Tempest or Endless Eclipse without modifying it at least a little is setting those players up to fail. No doubt about it.

    It would turn even more people off from raiding if they had a horrible experience in there, just like caitie said.
    Why? Pugs are going into FT every week, and some into EE too. The raid finder tool would merely make it easier to form the group, like the dungeon finder does now. Yes totally unprepared people who have sub par gear or didn't read anything about the raid before queueing might not perform well, but that's how it should be imo. It would be a raid after all, with or without a queue tool.

  2. #17
    Ascendant Techie Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan View Post
    Why? Pugs are going into FT every week, and some into EE too. The raid finder tool would merely make it easier to form the group, like the dungeon finder does now. Yes totally unprepared people who have sub par gear or didn't read anything about the raid before queueing might not perform well, but that's how it should be imo. It would be a raid after all, with or without a queue tool.
    You are assuming that the 20-people it would find would actually know the fights. Those PUGs are always formed by someone who knows the encounters and, more often than not, has at least two or three friends to help direct things along.

    I'm not saying everyone would get a group without leadership of some sort, but you cannot assume you will get someone who knows things every time.

    EDIT: Not to mention most PUGs that I've seen bring their own tanks, support and healers and just look for DPS to fill in the blanks. That would not be the case with the tool. As I mentioned in my earlier post the tool would need to make sure everyone is flexible (and would need to be MUCH more thorough than the current looking for group dungeon tool) before assembling the raid.
    Last edited by Techie Will; 10-22-2013 at 08:04 AM.


  3. #18
    Champion of Telara Veldan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    You are assuming that the 20-people it would find would actually know the fights.
    No, I am not. I am saying that's how it SHOULD be (Did you ever enter a raid without reading any tactics before? Cause I sure didn't), and if it's not the case, then that's the downside of queueing random group rather than finding a raid guild. Which is, by the way, exactly the same as the difference between queueing random expert and doing one with your guild. Only the system would as you said need to be more elaborate, to make sure the combination of players that gets smashed into a raid actually has peope with the right souls.

  4. #19
    Ascendant Techie Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan View Post
    No, I am not. I am saying that's how it SHOULD be (Did you ever enter a raid without reading any tactics before? Cause I sure didn't), and if it's not the case, then that's the downside of queueing random group rather than finding a raid guild. Which is, by the way, exactly the same as the difference between queueing random expert and doing one with your guild. Only the system would as you said need to be more elaborate, to make sure the combination of players that gets smashed into a raid actually has peope with the right souls.
    You're using yourself and me as examples, we are not every person who plays this game. Not everyone reads strategies or watches Youtube videos, regardless of how it "should" be.

    Have you ever encountered people in dungeons that go "Hey, I've never been here before" or apologize after dying on a boss because "sorry, I haven't been here before"? Because I sure have.

    There's no real way for a dungeon tool to vet someone on having been there before unless it checks achievements as well, which... honestly sort of defeats the whole purpose of a looking for raid tool. If it's the same bosses with the same mechanics, same DPS checks, same HPS checks, it would need to have people that know what they're doing. Sorry, 20 random people will not figure it out.

    Again, Endless Eclipse is a better example of how in depth the tool needs to be. Two bosses need three tanks, the other two need two tanks. How does the raid system determine who is the third tank? How will it determine that player needs to DPS during the first two bosses?

    There are a lot of things here that would have to be covered before it can even remotely begin to fall into place. Logistically speaking, if you don't want players hurting their heads from this, you would need to streamline it. Make it the same composition across all bosses (2 tanks, xx DPS, xx healers, 2 support).
    Last edited by Techie Will; 10-22-2013 at 08:19 AM.


  5. #20
    Ascendant Zazen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcelu View Post
    So thought I would try and come back to the game and even made a thread about healing class,I got into the game and played all of 10 minutes when I realized there was no point because I quit playing on my 60 rogue because the same expert dungeoons got old fast. Now there is really no point left in the game because of walled off content. With my work schedule and the assine logic of putting all shards on PST there is no hope for me to see any raid content.

    Trion needs to implement a raid finder so that people can expercience the content, they have made some great dungeons..or so I have heard I can not verify because I can't join a raid. I don not see any harm other than damaging peoples egos for they like to throw out terms such as welfare epics, scrubs, casuals or what ever belittleing name they have chosen for the day. Me, and I am sure many like me just want to see the content and have something fun to do.

    So Trion, please put in a raid finder!
    Have you tried the cross-shard channels? I see public raids advertised daily for TDQ, FT, EE, GA and even a pug for IG once.

    NA Cluster 1 has crossevents@faeblight and (I believe) crossraids@faeblight. These channels can be patronised by people on:
    - Deepwood
    - Greybriar
    - Faeblight
    - Seastone
    - Hailol

    NA Cluster 2 has crossevents@laethys and crossraids@laethys. These channels can be patronised by people on:
    - Laethys
    - Shatterbone
    - Threesprings
    - Wolfsbane
    - Necropolis

  6. #21
    Rift Master Haceldama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcelu View Post
    ... So Trion, please put in a raid finder!
    While I do not have a problem with this in theory, I expect it would be a huge failure in practice.

    Coordinating just the needed specs and such for a raid would be difficult to program and implement. Actually doing the mechanics and meeting the various dps/hps checks of many raids would be a nightmare for a pug. Could you imagine being forced to choose between dps / arcon / heals / heal hybrid with mana wrench / dom / arcon with mana wrench as options just for the mages on the Laethys (spelling sorry) fight?

    Thus, I am against the idea and would rather pug raids coordinate in 60 chat around raid lead's chat message.

    I recommend as others have that you join a guild. There are plenty looking for members.

    My input from the Dark Side!!!

    Haceldama

  7. #22
    Ascendant July13th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    Please see my sig, I just released it yesterday.

    It's still in beta at the moment and not gauranteed to work 100% yet. Once it takes off the more people who use it the better it will be.
    Hey this is one of the best addons I have seen. This is exactly the type of LFR the game needs.

  8. #23
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by July13th View Post
    Hey this is one of the best addons I have seen. This is exactly the type of LFR the game needs.

    Thanks, It's funny, there are a few people who have posted in this thread who didn't see my post and saying stuff like "if only there was some kind of board where we wouldn't have to spam chat channels" lol


    OH if only....

  9. #24
    Shield of Telara Aalnyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caitie View Post
    While I don't raid I can see this being a very bad idea. You can't put 20 random people with no effective leader and expect them to take down a boss with no co-ordination. Blizzard are having problems with the latest LFR in that it requires a certain amount of player co-ordination and awareness and that's a nerfed raid. Unless there's a specific LFR version a raid finder wont work.

    Well just find a guild who raid hours suit you. It really has nothing to do with what time zone a hard is in. A raid finder wont help your issue.
    Blizzards raid finder has always worked just fine. The raids are different compared to 10 and 20 man herioc versions of the same if filled by a guild so the loot is different (item level) however the system isn't flawed. Since Trion doesn't use an item level to determine how hard mobs are this would be the big challenge. However the fact you state that blizzards latest requires is incorrect. You are speaking of flex raids and that isn't LFR that is Flex raids. Rated based on the item level of those who que with the others. So the content is toned down. And the Flex raids are doing just fine.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aalnyan View Post
    Blizzards raid finder has always worked just fine. The raids are different compared to 10 and 20 man herioc versions of the same if filled by a guild so the loot is different (item level) however the system isn't flawed. Since Trion doesn't use an item level to determine how hard mobs are this would be the big challenge. However the fact you state that blizzards latest requires is incorrect. You are speaking of flex raids and that isn't LFR that is Flex raids. Rated based on the item level of those who que with the others. So the content is toned down. And the Flex raids are doing just fine.
    No I'm quite correct. If you look at the forums and blue posts you will find there's plenty of issues with completing Siege of Orgrimmar in raid finder. I believe it's been nerfed at least once and possibly more later. In the previous LFR tier, Throne of Thunder, you will wipe on some encounters if the groups doesn't do a minimum amount of co-ordination.

  11. #26
    Plane Touched
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    While I don't support the idea of a lfr tool i would definetly support a sort of "raid board"

    I would be an ingame raid planner managed by guild (could be extended to individual) that would display planned raid.
    Player would the have the possibiity to make it public so that people could register for a raid. You would then also be able to accept or deny player application.
    The system could then be improve by giving to the organizing personn(s) the possibility to tell which role and in which quantity they are looking for.
    Later possibility could be given to the same personn to inspect registered personn even if they are not connected(or get a message when they are)

    While this system don't go as far as a lfr in my opinion it goes as far as possible without having an impact on raid content.

    It may not be very usefull for full pug run but it would allow guild who stuggle to find one or two people to find them.

    edit: your addon look very good i will try to have a look at it when eu will be supported. Thank for the work
    Last edited by fayeran; 10-22-2013 at 10:09 AM.

  12. #27
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    I'm fine with a LFR version of the content: let's say 30% reduced health on everything, players bolstered to 30k health, and bosses doing 20-30% less dmg on tank/raid.

    Give it gear that's barely better than T1 relic, and lock players out from completing it + normal mode. No server announcements for the easy-mode bosses nor achievements (or, killing the normal mode grants both achievements which is also fine)

    People who want their instant, easy content will have it. People who want a challenge will still have the normal modes.
    This would be great, if you also added that * every boss has to be killable with exactly 2 tanks, 2 tank healers, and 2 raid healers, so the random queue could find those roles, * people were willing to accept a 50% chance the raid would just break up because people queue without useful roles or the ability to play their character, and * trion would stop developing new content because this retuning and additional features takes more of the already limited development time.

    Anyway, hope the raid finder addon linked earlier by Redcrux takes off. It will simplify the current process.

  13. #28
    Ascendant Onebutton's Avatar
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    Its a good idea, but not sure how well it work.. But you could put in a feature that would allow (only in a pug type raid) that perhaps it lists how many bosses that person has done and perhaps their hit as well in columns.. Heck, just a fleeting thought there. So if someone was forming for say FT, it would show Person A - Rogue, DPS, 480 hit, 2/4, Person B might say Warrior DPS 401 hit, 0/4. The raid leader could perhaps OPT to not include that person if they don't want them in the raid..

    Heck just ideas for now, might be stupid, might be good, but enough ideas from people can turn into masterpieces!
    OneButton (Half-way now to becoming a two-button player!)
    If there is anything you need, just ask, and I will tell you how to get along Without it!
    "One button raider for life!"

  14. #29
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrodite Rising View Post
    Its a good idea, but not sure how well it work.. But you could put in a feature that would allow (only in a pug type raid) that perhaps it lists how many bosses that person has done and perhaps their hit as well in columns.. Heck, just a fleeting thought there. So if someone was forming for say FT, it would show Person A - Rogue, DPS, 480 hit, 2/4, Person B might say Warrior DPS 401 hit, 0/4. The raid leader could perhaps OPT to not include that person if they don't want them in the raid..

    Heck just ideas for now, might be stupid, might be good, but enough ideas from people can turn into masterpieces!
    already exists inside my addon

    it shows roles, hit, and achivements of every player who posts LFG

    Still in Beta though so it's not guaranteed to work perfectly. I do however need people to test it and tell me what doesn't work lol
    Last edited by Redcruxs; 10-23-2013 at 07:57 AM.

  15. #30
    Plane Walker Kolfinna's Avatar
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    It'd be nice if there was an in-game message board for this sort of thing, so a raid leader could load it up, snag nineteen bodies off of it, and walk into the raid. Heck, I'm never the one organizing the raids, but with such a tool to do all the dirty work of checking basic stats, finding which players are willing to do which roles, and gauging interest in which instances need doing, I'd be much more likely to do so.

    But until such an official solution exists, players will have to fill in that void. Here's to hoping your addon takes off!

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