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Thread: If this is true, why are Trion insistent on using their resources on it.

  1. #46
    Ascendant Rounded's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    Whats wrong with raiding guilds taking in casual members, helping them get a foot in the door?

    Worst case you just helped a raider join a different guild (oh noes, GASP)
    Best case you gained another raider for your roster

    The problem is, every guild wants to be "the best" so they only recruit "the best"... the problem is that you don't become the best insantly by recruiting top players, you get there by recruiting players and culling the dead weight and strengthening those who are willing to put in effort and learn. There are very few "top players" who are willing to just change guilds at the drop of a hat so good luck recruiting them.

    There's no reason why an expert geared player should be turned away by a raiding guild unless its been proven that they are terrible and unwilling to learn.

    Raiding guilds need to take a tip from the business world, recruit early and promote from within.
    Swing and a miss.

    Expert geared players are excellent recruitment pool, they've already shown that they can take a small grind, hopefully graduating into a bigger grind called "progression". Gear can always be pumped to a single player if needed, a full clear of ToTDQ, EE and FT should land a metric ton of gear onto them.

    Who wants to miss the point next?
    Last edited by Rounded; 09-23-2013 at 10:20 AM.

  2. #47
    Soulwalker
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    You obviously are just hurt that content you were interested in was not added because the raiding scene in rift is still there. Alot of times if there is a hardcore raiding guild you wont know about them anyway because they will not constantly recruit. I am in casual raiding guild and haven't progressed far but there are atleast 8 guilds on Deepwood alone that are hardcore raiding and most of those have the first boss down and working on more already for the new content.

  3. #48
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    Expert geared players are excellent recruitment pool,
    Thats what i just said?
    Last edited by Redcruxs; 09-23-2013 at 10:25 AM.

  4. #49
    RIFT Guide Writer RoughRaptorsOld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsaskex View Post
    There are at least 8 guilds on Deepwood alone that are hardcore raiding and most of those have the first boss down and working on more already for the new content.
    Hardcore raiding is not downing the first boss in a new raid...especially if the calibur of the boss is similar to Breaker X-1 or let alone any fight that has been released in Rift as a first boss.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    I only suspect one other guild to kill Volan before he is nerfed, two maximum.

    In the NA scene, there are two competitive guilds: Addiction and Trinity. The rest do not care about world firsts at the level that Addiction and Trinity do. There could be a multitude of reasons for this. Sure, one could be skill, but another could be, they don't care. I laugh at 'hardcore' people who state other players are not competitive. They may be competitive in other aspects of their life, they just chose to play the game for entertainment. Some people given a choice of logging in when servers come up, already at the zone in, ready to go raid for 20 hours over three days will choose to do something else with their time. It does not make them any lesser of a player, just a different playstyle.

    What has not been stated by many is that Trion actually did a good job of releasing relatively bug free content. There are no game breaking bugs. There are minor tweaks that should be looked at (loading screens!)

    But for those that argued that open testing would give Trion terrible results, well . . . here is egg on your face. Hopefully they do not make me look bad with the Peanut Butter instance

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    Swing and a miss.

    Expert geared players are excellent recruitment pool, they've already shown that they can take a small grind, hopefully graduating into a bigger grind called "progression". Gear can always be pumped to a single player if needed, a full clear of ToTDQ, EE and FT should land a metric ton of gear onto them.

    Who wants to miss the point next?
    Um, that's pretty much exactly what he said, isn't it?

  7. #52
    Plane Touched Knulen's Avatar
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    Gearing up new players is never an issue, the issue is that so few seem to have any will to put in effort and learn their class nowadays. You can choose to blame f2p, that the game is bad or that new games are stealing all the good players, i dont really care. Fact is though, atleast on EU, that the average skill of the playerbase is at an all-time low, and the potential recruitment pool for any guild that has the slightest ambition to be progressive is extremely small.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fragasm View Post
    But the bads are the majority and this needs to work in our favor because there's a lot of us.


    4/4 3/3 5/5

  8. #53
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mei View Post
    Hi there,
    I noticed you're 47 and decided it isn't worth responding seriously. The Internet is hard.
    Politeness is even harder, apparently.

  9. #54
    RIFT Guide Writer RoughRaptorsOld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daayou View Post
    They may be competitive in other aspects of their life, they just chose to play the game for entertainment. Some people given a choice of logging in when servers come up, already at the zone in, ready to go raid for 20 hours over three days will choose to do something else with their time. It does not make them any lesser of a player, just a different playstyle.
    I play this game for entertainment, why else would I do it? It's not like I get paid to raid like top guilds in other games do. To say I don't play this for entertainment would be flat out silly and incorrect. And I never that deciding to raid less than others makes anybody any less of a player. Any player is welcome to play as they want and do what they want, I was just simply stating that in Volan's current state, they are going to nerf him before anybody (aside from 1-2 guilds) kill him. I'm not trying to shame anybody, but as I stated before, these guilds simply don't have the coordination to kill the boss. Maybe the video we release/streaming will help because not many people are good at figuring out mechanics on the fly and are actually able to come up with strategies for executing the mechanics, but who knows. P2 is well, not very lenient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daayou View Post
    What has not been stated by many is that Trion actually did a good job of releasing relatively bug free content. There are no game breaking bugs. There are minor tweaks that should be looked at (loading screens!)
    Agreed, this is the most bug-free raid that they have ever released, only one bug was noticed on Volan and it was so minor that you could completely ignore it, I doubt it will even be fixed.
    Last edited by RoughRaptorsOld; 09-23-2013 at 10:35 AM.

  10. #55
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    The average player does not consider the impact of aspirational content. If content was intended to be cleared by a majority, you would find yourself in a dead game pretty quickly. Instead, at least some of the content is intended to be cleared by very few players and propel them into elite status which other players may aspire to one day achieve.

    Jeremy Gaffney explains why the 1% matter here.

    1) The 1% are pretty vocal. If they report back to the 99% that the elder game sucks, guess what? Lots of people leave - why bother levelling up if no love was put into the very top content? (Well there actually answers to that, but I'll leave it for brevity).

    2) Over time, your "1%" content becomes easier - better loot drops, people get more skilled, level caps raise. So that percentage our of time spent actually over time does get utilized well.

    3) We devs often ARE the 1%. If you make a game you don't love, it's pretty damn hard to make it good. We want a game we want to play too. There are a disproportionate amount of hardcore raiders/PVPers in the industry (and probably also in those passionate enough to post here or on other MMO sites for that matter).

    4) There's some magic involved. Picture a game with no nigh-inaccessible content. You can go anywhere the first month, there's nothing left unseen. From one perspective, maybe that's great - there's no earning your way into Counterstrike maps, and that game's pretty damn fun. But from another...I dunno, it's pretty tough to have a mysterious, huge-feeling world when you can trivially do it all, and even in games I don't want to or don't have time to raid in I'd like to know there's more out there. That's arguable though.
    Top guilds leave all the time, regardless of how good the most recent raid was. Look at Maximation/Voodoo/Breaking Bads/Aftermath in Infernal Dawn. Maximation didn't even see Laethys and died for various reasons. Two things remain constant throughout the history of top guilds dying: 1) other guilds will step up and wave the hardcore banner, and 2) there is always an uber top tier of a very small handful of guilds clearing the content way before everyone else. Regardless, there are good reasons why raiding is meant to be difficult upon release, and Trion understands why.

  11. #56
    Champion of Telara Kantazo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Affecto View Post
    here will be much worse
    Vasily eta tebia moi drug?
    There are not Powers above the Earth, on the Earth or beneath the Earth that can separate us from His love.

  12. #57
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    I play this game for entertainment, why else would I do it? It's not like I get paid to raid like top guilds in other games do. To say I don't play this for entertainment would be flat out silly and incorrect. And I never that deciding to raid less than others makes anybody any less of a player. Any player is welcome to play as they want and do what they want, I was just simply stating that in Volan's current state, they are going to nerf him before anybody (aside from 1-2 guilds) kill him. I'm not trying to shame anybody, but as I stated before, these guilds simply don't have the coordination to kill the boss. Maybe the video we release/streaming will help because not many people are good at figuring out mechanics on the fly and are actually able to come up with strategies for executing the mechanics, but who knows. P2 is well, not very lenient.



    Agreed, this is the most bug-free raid that they have ever released, only one bug was noticed on Volan and it was so minor that you could completely ignore it, I doubt it will even be fixed.
    I don't know the volan fight specifics but perhaps the coordination requirements will be less strict as gear increases. If that's the case then perhaps Volan wasn't meant to be killed by the general raiding population untill PB is almost cleared too and more raiders get T2 geared. If that's true then they won't be nerfing volan for a while, until at least mid/late october when guilds will start making headway into PB.

    either way, i think the OP is wrong, the majority of players in this game raid in some form or another (no matter how little) and they need content ahead of them or else they won't have a reason to play. At it's core this is a raiding game with solo content tacked on and it needs to stick to that if it wants to succeed.

  13. #58
    Ascendant Rounded's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    Thats what i just said?
    Yea, and that's not the issue at hand, I'll pre-phrase what I meant:

    "Hi, I'm an expert geared stormcaller..."
    "Hi, I'm an expert geared reaver dps..."
    "Hi, I'm an expert geared cabalist..."
    "Hi, I'm an expert geared marksman..."

    People are stuck at what they think is the best thing since sliced bread and I've been yelled at on TS for asking them to change specs, these have been grown men acting like 11-yo who can't get to Disneyland. Why? Because "You can't tell me what to do, I don't want to play anything else and you need to take me to the raid" or "This is just fine and I will raid because you have to take me. I'm also afraid of melee and will never ever do it because I don't want to!". These sentences happen so often that it's not even funny and these players cannot be made into raiders.

    Stock answer is: "I'm sorry if you chose a bad spec to learn but if you were half the players you claim to be, you would have no issues learning the actually useful specs and take them to the raids." Usually after this there is some drama in gchat for 2 minutes and they player either leaves or gets kicked for being a child.

    Everything can be solved via mature communications before having to fall back onto fighting in public, but people see everything as "me me me, I play my char, I choose what to do and screw the other 19 as they are not me." This attitude is on the majority of the players as it would require some effort to actually learn to play your class, not a single spec.

    Yes, I'm venting and will be called a raging _______ or close to it. I'm sorry, but truth hurts most when it hits home.

  14. #59
    Ascendant Intim's Avatar
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    I just wonder if perhaps the testing and tuning of things done by the 1% of the player base affects the rest in a negative way as it could be over or under tuned for certain ger sets.

    ID chronicle is an example where some mobs are soft (e.g. goblins) and some are really hard (1st and 2nd corridor). More fresh face testing is needed to help bring diversity into content again. Perhaps even some encounters needing very specific and under usused abilities?
    Intim @ Zaviel EU
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  15. #60
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    Yea, and that's not the issue at hand, I'll pre-phrase what I meant:

    "Hi, I'm an expert geared stormcaller..."
    "Hi, I'm an expert geared reaver dps..."
    "Hi, I'm an expert geared cabalist..."
    "Hi, I'm an expert geared marksman..."

    People are stuck at what they think is the best thing since sliced bread and I've been yelled at on TS for asking them to change specs, these have been grown men acting like 11-yo who can't get to Disneyland. Why? Because "You can't tell me what to do, I don't want to play anything else and you need to take me to the raid" or "This is just fine and I will raid because you have to take me. I'm also afraid of melee and will never ever do it because I don't want to!". These sentences happen so often that it's not even funny and these players cannot be made into raiders.

    Stock answer is: "I'm sorry if you chose a bad spec to learn but if you were half the players you claim to be, you would have no issues learning the actually useful specs and take them to the raids." Usually after this there is some drama in gchat for 2 minutes and they player either leaves or gets kicked for being a child.

    Everything can be solved via mature communications before having to fall back onto fighting in public, but people see everything as "me me me, I play my char, I choose what to do and screw the other 19 as they are not me." This attitude is on the majority of the players as it would require some effort to actually learn to play your class, not a single spec.

    Yes, I'm venting and will be called a raging _______ or close to it. I'm sorry, but truth hurts most when it hits home.
    Yep i've been there

    Those are the players you want to cull from the guild soon anyways, so its not too big of a problem if they leave, just keep recruiting and eventually they get the picture (or leave the game)

    My guild recently went through a similar situation, we just swap people out of the raids for players with the role we needed. So essentially we don't force people to swap specs if they don't want to but if we need a healer we'll get a healer either way. Same goes for DPS if we can't meet the enrage we'll find a player who can help us meet the enrage.

    Lack of effort sure is hard to overcome though.

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